Time to start shopping for a new door for the house. Standard 36″ x 80″ door, no sidelites or transom.
I don’t particularly care for the stamped steel offerings.
A lot of what I have seen at the local boxes seem to be high profit and marginal quality.
Tons of stuff on the web, too much to sort through and difficult to look at and get a feel for quality.
The front of my home faces west, it is a ranch, and there is a 3′ overhang above the doorway.
Any suggestions?
Replies
Look into the fibrglass doors. I have installed a few of the TruTemper brand. They come in a variety of styles and window placements. I am sure you will find something that will go well with your house.
My dad has a fiberglass door, it faces north (Chicago area) and he has a storm door.
They claimed maitenance free, and he believed it. The finish is peeling. It is "warranteed" but we all know how that works in real life.
I suppose things have changed in the last 5 years, but I don't want the same thing to happen here.
Every manufacturer (or brand name, there can't be 50 companies making these things) claims to be the best. I know some are not.
Just looking for help to find the good and stay away from the bad.
Was the door factory finished? - or site finished? Personally I have found fiberglass doors to be the least problematic.
Factory finished.
Never dealt with a factory finished door. I'd say they would have to make good on their guarantee - if they are still around.... :-( Sometimes door warranties are voided if they are behind a glass storm door though...
I usally go to a local manufacturer. Who makes nothing solid wood but entry doors, better quality then home centers and a better price.
You follin me :-)
Personally, I don't like wood doors. They crack and warp.
Well I live in SoCal moderate weather most of the year. So we dont have the problems alot of yas so when it comes to using natural materials for things like doors ect
always had a thang for doors and windows.
be adoored
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
I've noticed those little disclaimers.
Why not try making your own door.
Only cracks are original wood, inside finish Watco, outside clear epoxy, total out of pocket cost less than $10 including hardware (all surplus, wood from old oak pallets, glass from garage sale).
+ about 30 hours labor<G>
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Edited 11/27/2005 10:52 pm ET by junkhound
Simpson makes solid wood exterior doors. Available at Home Cheapo. Many different styles, including traditional.
My GC recommended not getting a solid wood door. He said I will have too many problems with wood warped. I asked him why my 120 year old front door is still in excellent condition. He told me old growth wood was much tighter grain, which you can't get today.
My solution - I found a 36" wide door at an architectural salvage warehouse. 2" wide, original wavy glass, good condition - $300.May be extra labor to hang and weatherseal, but door will last forever and can be refinished after my kids and dog destroy it.
I considered interior wood / exterior alum. clad. But Not sure what I would do after aluminum got scrathed and dented up. Solid wood doors should be easy to refinish after heavy wear.
Just another option. Good Luck.
I don't remember the manufacturer, but I recently saw some ads for exterior doors that are made from a synthetic material that looks like wood. They're supposed to be rot and termite proof, paintable or stainable, and immune to expansion/contraction problems.
I'm sure that there's a fair amount of hype in the ads, but they seem worth a deeper look.
Check out ThermaTru's "Classic Craft" line of product. You can see all their sizes and styles at their website.
CC is the highest-priced of all their fiberglass door offerings. Be sure to use only their finishing products. Their stains are special, and their waterborne clear topcoat is special also. Neither can be bought in paint departments anywhere.
If you use their finishing products, and follow directions, you will not have a failure.
I did a Therma – Tru door for our house about 3 years ago.
1) Expensive, over a grand for a regular 36" x 80".
2) Marginal quality at best. That’s the door slab AND the hanging. Apparently Therma Tru only makes the slabs and you local mil work shop hangs them.
3) Lot’s of finger pointing by Therma Tru when I called them on crappy quality issues.
In the end I just took my lumps and installed it anyway, but I wouldn’t by another one if it was half the price.
Bill
What all happened?
The door slab it's self was very rough.
1) The molding that holds the glass in has plugs to cover the screws.
Just like wood plugs but made of fiberglass, they were all high as much as 3/16". Once you sand them flat the wood grain is gone and looks like crap when the finish is applied.
2) The glass on both sides of the door was really crapped up with cured silicone. Also lots of silicone smears on the slab, they don't show up till you stain the door.
3) The slab was 1/8" out of square
4) All 3 hinges were mortised to slightly different depth's.
5) The width of the head jam is shorter the threshold, couple this with the bad mortises and out of square slab and it's a real beauty to install.
6) weather stripping was applied crooked.
------------------------I WAS DUMB!!!!-------------------
Didn't catch most of this until I installed the door. Isn't no way I'm pulling this thing out now.
After I settled down I contacted Therma - Tru. They were sympathetic, but blamed my problems on the mill work shop and MY poor installation ( yeah over the phone ).
Lessons I learned:
1) Check that sucker out REAL good before you pull out the old door.
2) You don't always get what you pay for.
3) Once you pay in full your leverage is gone.
I wouldn't buy a wood door. The sun will eventually break down any varnish you try to put on it.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
I have made a living for over 30 years making wood doors, from normal everyday to paired 11 foot tall monsters, probably over 3,800 doors in all, with about a third of them exterior. I have had 4 exterior doors warp or show problems. Three were made of Poplar, so I don't make exterior doors in Poplar any more, period. One was Honduras Mahogany, but out in the weather for six months with no finish, after the (alleged) carpenters cut out a panel and dry fit a piece of glass. It took a 5/16" bow in an 8' stile.
The problems that are always mentioned with wood doors are hyped by the fake door industry to where we all repeat them as if we are zombies. If the wood door warps, it is because the people that built it, installed it and/or finished did not use due diligence.
The fact is that the modern mass marketing of (disposable) products has dumbed us all to a place where we think cheaper is really better, and "value" - an abstract concept - can be manipulated or added on.
The truth is that there is nothing like a wood door, for more reasons than I should have mention - especially to this group. Craft, pride, history, integrity and heritage are all involved. If you need me to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand anyway.
Granted, I am unable to detach for a less than opinionated view, but I would ask you all to examine those claimed problems and see how many also apply to fake doors and how many of the problems with wood doors are actually the fault of the wood door.
Dave Sochar http://www.acornwoodworks.com
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'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
Thank you sir.
Took a quick look at your web site. serious stuff.
Gives me hope for the world that some true craftsman still exist!The solid wood door I'm installing faces the South and will catch a lot of sun in the winter. (I live near Chicago). In the Summer the Maple tree will keep it in the shade for most of the day.Is it possible to stain the door and have it last for, say 5 years, before it needs refinishing? If so what is the best finish to use. An alternative is to paint the door and refinish it every 3-5 years.
Dave
Well you certainly made your first post count!
I like your web site, very nice work.
Doug
Acorn ... can you give us a brain dump on 2 1/4 rail & stile doors, do you laminate panels, rails & stiles etc?, dowel joints?, does anyone make shaper cutter sets for 2 1/4 thick doors??
I didn't think my rant would get much positive response, so thanks for reading and understanding.
As to finish, we recommend Sikkens Cetol, a 3 coat system that is very recoat friendly. All exterior wood finishes will fail. Therefore it is a matter of how they fail and how hard they are to renew. As the Sikkens ages, it just fades away. It does not crack and peel like poly, or even marine varnish. So as it fades, it is a simple matter of a foam brush, a Saturday morning (above 55 degrees) and a hour or two to first clean the door with naphtha or similar and then recoat the door. Homeowner friendly.
How often? We have some south facing no overhang, warranty exempt doors that are recoated once or twice a year. We have others that are set back under a porch, with full overhang, never get wet or sun, and the finish recoats every 12 years or so, mostly as "spiffing' it up more than protection.
The reason so many wood doors "fail" as well as plastic, metal, compo-wood, or simulated doors fail is due to the design and placement of the entry. Subdivisions do not allow for siting for solar use/avoidance. And the cheapest houses don't waste any money on overhangs or especially porches. So the exterior portal is out in the weather 24/7, as well as you or any visitors, with no porch or area to gather oneself and things for the transition from in to out or vice versa.
As to the brain dump, I wish I had time and typing discipline to do so. It is a huge subject, and I most enjoy the sound of my own voice, so I do get wordy. However, I do have a book outline sitting in the computer. once a chapter or two get written I will then shop for a publisher. I also have thought about teaching a class to hobbyists that want to tackle the ultimate woodworking project for the home.
Dave S
Acorn Woodworks, Inc
"I didn't think my rant would get much positive response, so thanks for reading and understanding."The applause is still echoing off the cieling. You are amoung friends heere. I'll make a soap-box special wit5h your name on it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
As to 2-1/4" doors, we like to use pattern grade Honduras Mahogany at 10/4 thick. This eliminates the need for thickness lamination. Pine, Oak, and others all get typically a 3 ply, but we are not adverse to 2 ply. I have seen no relationship between "balance" and flatness like one would with veneer work. We do use the best lumber we can buy, all kiln dried and top grade. Everything is close to 2-5/16", then wide belted down to just under 2-1/4" We now have several orders in hand for 3" x 10' or taller doors - arched pairs.
We have had all our tooling made custom for us and have some we made with our ancient "squint and spark" methods. We do true mortise and tenon, with cope and stick integral molds, or mortise and tenon with bolection moldings applied. Panel raises are also done with custom tooling.
Dave S
Thanks for all the great info, but I was afraid you were going to say all your tooling was custom built ... make sure you include a section on your shop setup in that book ..
Wane - We still use an old Rockwell (Delta) shaper with a stub spindle cartridge for some odd set-ups. This is the same machine I learned on 30 years ago, with the same tooling. The stub spindle allows one to make a cope cut under a tenon, flip the rail, and cope the other side. The tenon can even be final sized to thickness this way, and automatically centered. With the addition of a bearing, curved copes can be made.
While this is custom tooling, some of it is no more than squint and spark 3 wing steel Delta cutters with the cope pattern hand ground in (mounted in the stub spindle), and a matching stick cutter. It is some pretty coarse looking stuff, but works well for onesy-twosey projects. It is about a half day's work to get a pair that is a good match, but then they are good for many doors, and you can fine tune as you go.
The custom tooling we had made accommodates insulated glass in thickness and coverage. A real pet peeve of mine is when the insulating glass spacers show beyond the sticking, so the larger cutters provide coverage of 11/16" and cover nicely.
Dave S
Dave-
How 'bout some pictures of your shop and interesting doors in progress? I know it takes precious time but the guys/gals here would love it.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
another one to champion wood doors and overhangs / porches
your page isw bookmarked
thanks for coming aboard!
Amazing doors on your web site. How long do the finishs last in sunlight? We all hope you post more often and share your expertise.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Thanks for openning up!You are right
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks Dave, that was interesting.
roger
thanks for the website. I sure appreciate your sense of craftsmanship. what a pleasure to see truly great work.
Indeed Marv but why would put Varnish on an exterior door is the question. It has already been pointed out in this discussion that all exterior finishes will fail eventually. The greater the exposure the more the finish must be sympathetic to recoating. Big overhangs allow film finishes to last a very long time. My advice is an exterior marine quality oil finish coupled with a desire to maintain the beauty of the door. The Sikkens Cetol system mentioned by Acorn in this discussion has a very good rep If you want to know what the sun is doing these days ask yourself why they are so anxious for you to wear high SPF sun block when you go out
BillH
Good summary about their doors. You forgot Therma tru full view fiber classic has a unique feature, the top of the door closes a half a second after the bottom because the door is so ridiculously flimsy. And the glass is built in some of their doors where you can not replace the glass. http://www.shelladditions.com
the top of the door closes a half a second after the bottom.
Now THAT is a summary!
But based on my experience I'm not really surprised.
I'll get in that lineup.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
FWIW
I have a solid wood front door witn nine lights in the top half, "X" pattern below. Looks good after 16 years, main entrance so it's been opened & closed a zillion times!
Time to start shopping for a new door for the house. Standard 36" x 80" door, no sidelites or transom.
I don't particularly care for the stamped steel offerings."
For low maintance, fiberglass. If you want the beauty of wood, well, solid wood, BUT make sure it has many coats of a flexible film finish. I you are not willing to do this, it will look pretty bad in about five years.
WSJ