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I will be roofing my new shed soon, and would like to use a dimensional shingle that will still be manufactored when I reroof my house and garage in a couple of years. It will be a low to mid grade/price in that I am in a 3 tab neighborhood, but think the dimensionals will be worth it for thier good looks. thanks John A
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Elk makes an affordably priced 25 yr. dimensional shingle that I like a lot.I have used it many times and homeowners love it.
I am a bit ashamed to admidt that I recently had reason to use an Atlas dimensional shingle that I also liked(30 Yr)I had occasionally had to use their 3-tabs in the past and was not particularly thrilled.The dimensionals were nice though.
Good Luck,Stephen
*one thing you need to remember is that if you are going to reroof over the existing roof on your house you need to stay with the same type of shingle(standard vs metric). I know Stephen likes the Elks, I do not have the same appreciation for them as he does. In the standard sizing I prefer the landmark(certainteed) series, For the metric if I had to pick it would be the Tamko m25. In our are we shingle all year round from -30 to high 90 and i have noticed that all shingles do not perform the same in the extreme conditions.....don't get me going on why we work in the extreme weather....our builders don't seem to know any better than to shut down in the winter, and with 50% of our work new construction we do it as it comes in. Most colors will stay the same over a few years but remember that if you choose a "diferent" color it may not be availiable in a few years.
*Thom,I think you are absolutely correct about the color choice.The metric vs. standard situation is not a big deal.Metric can easily go over a standard shingle and in fact is preferable in layover situations.Metric gives us a built in fudge factor to adapt to 1st layer installations that were not installed as straight as you and I would like to see.Have you tried the GAF product?Good Luck,Stephen
*John,I prefer the Tamko Heritige or Heritige Ultra , which in my area is available in standard size (Didn't even know Tamko made metrics). Tamko has been around forever so I suspect they'll still be here when you need more shingles ,but Thom is right about color matching, after a few years in the weather nothing is going to match anymore.By the way Hi Stephen, and yes I use the GAF Timberlines and Slatelines. They are excellent shingles but I prefer the Tamkos because they are a couple of bucks a square cheaper for the same quality. I offer everyone both color charts though and if someone has a strong preference for a GAF color or is set on the "namebrand" then I go with the GAFs. I found those slate hooks you mentioned in a trade mag...they look interesting, what do they cost?Richard Max
*John, why not purchase enough shingles to do all the roofing you plan to do in the next year or two? Doing this will ensure that the lot numbers (for color) will match and that the color is available. Assuming you have the space to store the unused shingles until you need them, find a place that is dry (moisture stable) not too much variation in humidity levels and doesn't get too hot in summer, winter cold will not harm the shingles but heat could seal the bundles into a solid mess. Be sure not to stack the bundles too high and it wouldn't be a bad idea to shuffle the stacks around once in a while. Manufacturers make each color in lots and the chance of matching lot numbers in the future are slim, at best. Geoff
*Richard,If we are talking about the same hooks I think they were about 15 cents apeice.(beats cutting copper tabs doesn't it?)
*I don't think there will be enough benefit to make storing shingles for a year worth the effort.Lets say his shed is a couple of SQ. and he roofs it this year.The same color shingle next year,even if from a different lot number, will look just fine on his house since it is detached from the shed and the 2 shingle lots will not abut one another (Seperate structures).Why tie up his money and storage space on a usually readily available and modestly priced commodity?In fact I usually find homeowner stored shingles to be of dubious value when saved for the inevitable repairs down the road.The shingle kept in the garage for a few years no longer matches the shingle color on the roof and is usually pretty brittle to work with.I generally view shingles as something of a perishable commodity...best purchased "fresh" for each job when needed and then installed ASAP,and after installation left alone.Good Luck,Stephen
*John- I thought I would add my 2 cents worth. I'm with Stephen on this one. Storage doesn't make sense . As for overlaying metric dimensional shingles on standard I have had great results with first laying down a #30 underlayment and installing over that. With the combination of the laminated shingles and the #30 there is no telegraphing of the original roof at all.John
*JRS,I am pretty sure the 30# is not needed either in an overlay situation. Just use the "but-up" method running the top of each course against the bottom edge of the old roofing.This method is insanely fast since each new shingle is provided with "positive stop"placement and your layout has already been done by the original roofer.Using the "but-up method with metric over standard meens each course will have about a 5 inch exposure instead of the approx. 5 5/8 metric exposure so you will need a few more metric shingles than standard,but their cost is mare than offset by the increased rate of applicationThe loss of 5/8" exposure on each course also means you will lose a little of the shadow line effect on most dimensional shingles but the upside is that you pick up 5/8" headlap meaning increased leak resistance and a lot of fudge factor to use in straitening out less than perfect layout of the first layer.I only wish I had a roof like this to do every day cause that is about as close to an easy days work as roofers usually see.Good Luck,Stephen
*Stephen -- and everyone else -- what is your preferred method for laying straight and evenly spaced rows of shingles on virgin roof? Never done it, and I don't think I've seen it discussed here...
*Are you guys serious about metric shingles, or just kidding ? I've never heard of them !Or is this something like a "metric crescent wrench" ?
*Ron,Nope, there really are such beasts. I believe they are more common in Canada then the U.S., perhaps our brothers to the north can confirm this. My first experience with them was in a new development about 12 years ago were the builder ordered the materials. We went up and snapped lines on the first house, placed the first shingle to the line and.....huh!?Don't see them much anymore, but I always remember to check for them when bidding a re-roof.P.S. I always use my metric crescent wrench when I replace the piston return springs on imported cars, it fits just right.RM
*Andrew,A little more info please. Dimensional or three-tab?Rack method or step method?Richard Max
*here in michigan the gaf timberlines are metric and tamko offers a metric line called the m25 or m30(these have a wild color scheme and are great to use on roofs that really showcase the home) Timerline switched to metrics due to manufacturing ease. The reps claim that it is more cost efficient to run metric than standard, something to do with waste material etc. yes years ago the only metrics were from Canada but not today.Andrew your question about laying shingles, I prefer to "stair step" them up the roof. if they should happen to shrink at all you will not be able to see a pattern as you look up from the ground. In addition if you were to "rack" them up the roof you then must lift up the end of every other shingle to place the last nail. This is one of the greatest indicators that seperates roofers---did the installer rack the shingles and if he did are all 4 nails in place? I repair way too many roofs where the roofer cheated his way up the roof and when our yearly high winds come rolling thru off goes the roof, and for some reason the contractor/homeowner does not want that roofer back on their job!
*Port, all I've seen installed around here is regular 3-tab by the rack method. Didn't pay enough attantion to see how they were doing it though -- I'm usually marveling at what it is that keeps the untethered roofers stuck to the steep roofs like Spiderman. Are roofers related to cats, in agility or having 9 lives?I'm not so much interested in doing this myself as in having some way to judge a roofer's work, which is what thom is driving at. There was a thread here a while back railing against "short nailing," skipping that extra nail. I assume chalk lines are an important part -- though it's tempting to user those lines on the felt somehow. The old roofs around here tend not to be perfectly square though...I finally went to a -real- roofing supply and was astonished how many choices there are in ordinary things like gutters. Most stuff I see installed is Home-Depot style (and I notice no one here has recommended their Owens-Corning shingles).P.S. Stephen, I'm really more of a downhill skier. And I have no illusions of roofing for profit, it is an area where efficiency really shines. Problem is, you want someone who is clever like a carpenter when it comes to the details that so often get messed up. (E.g., flashing, flashing, flashing.)P.P.S. Thanks Port/RichardM, as well. Y'all sure pounce on these questions pretty quick!
*Andrew,I use both stair stepping and racking depending on which one will be more efficient on that particular roof.It is no problem to use 4 nails when using a gun while racking and you can reach more courses from one position while racking.It is also much easier to keep vertical lines straight with the racking method.The stair step method shows wear patterns in a diagonal path as the roof ages instead of a vertical path with the rack method.Both wear patterns are equally obvious to me.When I first started roofing I handnailed everything with a roofing hatchet and gauge.This used a very simple layoutof 2 chalklines at 30" and 36" // to the rake and one at 11 1/2" //to the gutter. I scaled every shingle of every course with the hatchet.This method was very straight but pretty slow.When I started using air power I used the same basic layout but because it was awkward to scale with the gun I snapped a lot of additional chalklines.Usually every 10 inches giving me a line every other course and eyeballing every other course.Then i went to a line every 15" eyeballing 2 courses,chalklining 1.Now I chalkline about every 4 ft and I am as accurate as I was at every 10"(on smaller roofs). On bigger roofs I will use more lines,less lines with dimensional shingles.Remember andrew,90% of roofing is simple but painfull.The remaining 10% is where the leaks occur.Also,to make any money at roofing, consistently, you need to be efficient.We strive to minimize motion and make the same moves time and again with no wasted effort.ARE you familiar with cross country skiing?It is kind of like that,constantly working for the perfect motion.I hope you are considering this only for your house cause I suspect you may be a little old for this work professionally.No offense intended but this is usually a young mans trade.If you have more questions i will be happy to attempt an answer...Stephen
*Sorry about that andrew ,but I guess we were both tyoing at the same time.Stephen
*Andrew,I don't know about the cat thing, I think it's just what your used to. I have observed that I've never met a fat roofer before though. Thom nails it pretty good about the rack versus step method, we have shortnail cheaters here too. Some guys swear they can't make time stepping them ,but on a walkable pitch I don't think it makes a big difference. On a scaffold pitch racking them means less rigging or moving your rigs less frequently. Some shingle manufacturers void the warranty if you rack them. I prefer to step because the pattern doesn't ghost over time as Thom said and also if you get an odd colored bundle it angles up the roof rather then coming out like a solid block patch. When I do rack I don't shortnail and I make sure I butt 'em tight.The lifting thing is no big deal to me. When I used to handnail I used a hatchet, so I just slid the sharp end under the edge ,lift set and nail. With the gun I think its even easier because I'm not holding a bunch of nails in my hand at the same time.Chalklines are the key to a straight roof but it's the ones parallel to the rake that are important not the ones on the paper or snapped parallel to the eaves. Richard Max
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I will be roofing my new shed soon, and would like to use a dimensional shingle that will still be manufactored when I reroof my house and garage in a couple of years. It will be a low to mid grade/price in that I am in a 3 tab neighborhood, but think the dimensionals will be worth it for thier good looks. thanks John A