*
I am designing a three sided wrap
around porch and would like to use
round columns. On 2 sides of the
house the client wants screen porches. If I place the round columns on the outside and then create a
4×4 & 2×4 screen porch layout behind
it I lose SF depending on the column
base size ( 12″ most likely). The client
asked reversing this and putting the
columns inside the screen . I’m not
keen on this look. Opinions, ideas,
solutions?
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Replies
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Steve, how about mounting the screen to the columns themselves? I've participated in this approach, and it preserves the look from outside (a screen over the columns would look like a horrible remuddle job!), and maintains the square footage you're trying to hang on to.
Nominal 2x2's are scribed to the sides of the columns for mounting the screen or screen panels in a conventional manner. The side of the 2x2 which meets the colunm needs a slightly concave surface, which is easily obtained with a radial arm saw. If there is a railing, it, the pickets and base rail are offset to the exterior to stand proud of the screen, thus maintaining the "look" you are seeking. (Option: Leave railing, etc. in normal position, and offset 2x2's to the inside ... this way, the 2x2's are less prominent, but the scribing is more difficult) In any case, the cost of extra labor can pay off in a great looking job.
Good luck, Steve
p.s. On any screen porch, the screen or screen panels can be applied from the inside. This can result in immediate labor savings and major savings for long term maintenance.
*Steve,What a GREAT word!remuddleI love it! Is it your coinage?Rich Beckman
*The first time I saw the word used was in The Old House Journal. Every issue they featured a horrible remodel job on a fine old house. They would have a picture and a short paragraph on the Remodel Remuddle of the Month.
*
Question:
Is there a handrail system involved??
Can you use the rail..for a track...which would accept screening..??
Can you set a roll up screen..on the header between the columns..so the use can be...intermittent??
This would allow...for the views from inside to be uninterrupted...during non use of the screen...and the system could be integrated with the column..as in Steve's message.
There are screen and track systems..which are visually quite subtle...and the track..could also be possibly routed into the column...which would eliminate the use of the 2x2's.
You would need a straight round column...not tapered...
Depending on your clients pocketbook, it could be motorized and switched......
David Nickelson
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Have you considered using half round columns and attaching you screen system to teh back side? Or channeling the sides of your round columns so that they will accept the screen panel that can be slid over and removed similar to a storm window panel?
Pete Draganic
*I don't know where I first heard word, but it was about ten years ago, I think. I believe another contractor used it, and I liked the way one word could sum up a situation where the features of a nice home were messed up by poor design or lack of craftsmanship.Steve
*OK, Pete has given me an inspiration ... how about this: Use split columns, and then "sandwich" , say, a 5/4" board between them, which will project out from the column sides to form the mounting for the screens or screen panels? This would save all the scribing I mentioned in my first post, but would peserve the appearance of the columns from both inside the porch and from the exterior. Using a quarter-column and a three-quarter column, one could turn a corner with this technique.The colunms we use are tapered about 1" in 10', so the "sandwich" method would REALLY make the installation simpler. With nominal 10" columns, the out-of-roundness at the base and capital probably would not be noticed except at corners. The split columns could be ripped to account for the thickness of the "sandwich" material, and THEN things would really look great.For clarification, when I spoke of screen panels, I meant panels in aluminum frames, painted to match the trim, and screwed in place. Great for frequent screen replacements when the clients have kids or a pack of Golden Labradors.Fighting off muddledness, Steve
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Steve
Very interesting thought about splitting the column, cutting out 5/4" and then inserting a wide 5/4 board (redwood?) as the mounting rail for screen panels. Just a couple of challanges I can think of...what are you going to rip it with? Only thing I can think of is a larg-ish ban saw with a jig to hold the column square. Don't think I'd try to cut by hand. The other challange is how do you reassemble the column, particularly if the column is weight bearing? Hmmmm. Love challanges and I'm definitely going to think on this one :-)
The one time I did this (a few years ago), I did it as you described, scribing the 5/4 to the column shape. Took a bit of work, but once I got the outline, I used it as a templet and the others took much less time to make. A trick I discovered is to finish the screen frames and mounting stiles/rails in a slightly different color....makes the column much easier to see distinctly.
Some good ideas!
Bruce M
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Bruce, I hate to admit this, but my supplier splits the columns for me at $25.00 each, wood or fiberglass. They have a millwork shop where they do this, but I have not observed the operation. I had just checked on some column prices friday and confirmed that they are still splitting columns, so now I'll ask if I can watch. I don't know if they could deal with the corner column, but I'll inquire about that, too..
Since a column is primarily in compression, I don't believe it would be too difficult to assemble the sandwich and maintain the necessary structural integrity.
Your idea of contrasting colors is a good one. We built a porch with square columns last year where the client asked for contrasting colors, and it looks sharp from both near and far.
Regards, Steve Turner
*Wow! 25 bucks a cut? My supplier rips plywood panels to size (for when we did house board-ups) for 25 cents a cut. I hardly think at all that they would charge me a whole heck of a lot more for riping columns. Then again, I do spend a good bit of money there.Are the columns used on this project hollow or solid?Pete Draganic
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Steve, Pete, Bruce,
Thanks for the ideas you've been generating. To fill in some more information: I've been leaning towards using a fiberglass or composite column as opposed to wood but am not decided. In my more conventional screen porches I like to use a 2x6 railing for a wider ledge to set drinks upon. This is a Southern low country type plantation look house. I'm leaning towards a fairly traditional look 1" x 1"
balusters 4" oc =/-. If I split the column I guess
I have to split everything including the base and capital. I didn't quite get how that would work with the 2x2 scribe method since the base is quite a bit wider than the shaft. Definitely want a tapered column not a cylinder sp? . A local arcitect I was chatting with recommended a color change bewteen the column and screen structure for a good look. I'm not sure about panels at this point. Thanks again for you help and let me know if you have any more ideas. It may be easiest to have the factory do the split cuts.
Steve
*I'm replying to myself. It's been a few years since I've been in the field and forgot that most columns are 3 pieces so I guess if you built up your top and bottom plates for the screens to the height of the base and capital all you'd be scribing would be the shaft. Right?
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Steve, I set wood columns on aluminum plinths, so the base is raised off the porch floor/deck by about an inch and a half. In this case, you'd want to split the base along with the column, or, if you're using the solid column, you would scribe vertically to the base and run your bottom plate the the plinth. The capital is generally not so heavy, and you might find yourself scribing the ends of the top plates to match the capital profile.
Hope this is going well for you, Steve
*Pete, at first it seems like a lot for a cut, but they have to make up a 10-ft jig to cut the tapered, hollow column, whether it's done with two passes on a table saw or one pass with a giant band saw. Also, it takes two guys to handle the whole thing as they run it through the saw. And then it gets delivered to the site. Any mis-cuts are their problem. The price has just gone up the $40, but I still consider it a good deal, since I don't see any way I could do it less expensively, and I can be more productive doing something else.My current job leaves me with a half-column left over ... any offers, F.O.B. Williamsburg, VA?Regards, Steve
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I am designing a three sided wrap
around porch and would like to use
round columns. On 2 sides of the
house the client wants screen porches. If I place the round columns on the outside and then create a
4x4 & 2x4 screen porch layout behind
it I lose SF depending on the column
base size ( 12" most likely). The client
asked reversing this and putting the
columns inside the screen . I'm not
keen on this look. Opinions, ideas,
solutions?