I work for a non-profit design group that does a lot of work in the less advantaged/urban areas, and a lot of our projects are on existing buildings with storefronts on the first floor. One such project is for a small sandwich shop that has an existing awning from a neighboring business running across its aluminum storefront. The framing for the awning is screwed into the storefront frame at the transom, and the sandwich shop is getting some grief from city zoning people for it. The awning needs to be removed back to this other business’ property, and we’re designing new signage to be installed where the awning is now located. (2) questions (for anyone interested): 1) Is there a good way to cap the holes that will be left in the storefront frame from removing the awning, and 2) can we use stainless steel self-tapping screws to hang the new signage from the storefront? Our proposed sign involves planks of MDO board mounted horizontally on aluminum Z-channels, which are then mounted to the storefront frame at the transom. I’m concerned that galvanic action might cause problems with the fasteners, and was wondering if there might be a better solution. Any suggestions would be much appreciated, thanks.
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Welcome to BT. If you click on your name you could fill in your profile. Location is often, and particularly this time, a very pertinent factor.
There are, of course, a lot of different aluminums, also stainless. Aluminum is generally less noble than stainless, sometimes a lot less. Bodes well. Mostly they're pretty close in the galvanic series. Now we get to location, some areas it's a very big deal, some not so much.
I've been doing a test here of stainless screws and copper, which is considerably more noble. Should be magnified by the area effect. 6 yrs later, no apparent corrosion, but this is central Va, not coastal, where the galvanic situation is much different. If you're in Phoenix, I wouldn't worry about it at all. When possible, it's always safer to isolate metals. You could always use a lot of aluminum pop rivets.
Considering you're a non-profit, a dab of silicone caulk in the holes will do you.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
"Considering you're a non-profit, a dab of silicone caulk in the holes will do you."
wow does that mean since he is non profit, crappy work is ok since no one can sue him and get much money
thats the attitude that makes all of us contracotrs look like crap
( sorry, old fairfax virginia boy here, jsut looking out for family still there)
Crappy work? Maybe if you did it, hoss.
That ain't a Virgina attitude you just displayed, but then Fairfax hasn't qualified for quite some time. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
regardless of attitude
silicone is not a fix all, neither is "tub'n' tile"
its a quick..... lets get down to the court house and change our name type of fix
crappy work, not me , knock on REAL wood ( nor particle board or mdf)
"carpenter carpenter do your best ,tub and tile do the rest"
If a person relys on caulking to make it good for a gingerbread sale ( meaning fancy with nothing of substance behind it)
then your a low balling hack
not meaning you Tom, just all of those low ballers that hurt you and I , the real artists that try to build for generations of proud home ownership
Isa, what would you do to cap the holes?Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
As Calvin pointed out, how about a constructive idea?
To me, less visible in a repair is better. I have no problem with silicone in a small screw hole. My experience indicates it'll last indefinitely in aluminum.
Are you suggesting a weld? That'll work, if pricey. Rosette? Something decorative? Obviously, a screw inserted will plug the hole.
Stereotypes don't help anybody. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
geeze..ya hit a nerve there huh?
Tom, I picked up some stuff way back in 1990 at the Alaska State Fair when I was on a trip there. It is a solder type stick of alum or zinc..low temp melting point.
It requires a torch and a stainless steel toothbrush...and you can solder a hole in soda can or fill a cracked cylinder head ( if alum).
So I know the stuff exists. But, I'm with you on the sillycone or lexel. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I kidnapped the runaway bride..her eyse weren't like that in the before pics.
geeze..ya hit a nerve there huh?
Apparently.
Those transluscent panels I've been re-using were lousy with silicone caulk. Seems the company that installs them for somewhere around $1-200k doesn't find the butyl weatherstripping adequate, necessitating cases of silicone caulk. Sure looked like hack work to me.
I substituted EPDM weatherstripping for the butyl and haven't had a leak. Did use some silicone caulk on extraneous screw holes in the aluminum ridge cap. Pretty sure my wire-feed welder has the capability to weld aluminum, but it didn't seem worth the effort to figure it out.
Sure liked Pony's approach. One thing we don't know is the extent. Half a dozen holes? Or lookin' like a hungry woodpecker came through.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Doode..I saw Jesse James weld copper with a TIG I think..made a gas tank for a chopper..
Man, I wannna do that..my lincoln mig can do it I guess, but like you, it has a learning curve I can't swing just now.
I know heliarc is doable, just can't fathom the training period. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I kidnapped the runaway bride..her eyse weren't like that in the before pics.
Copper gas tank? Was rust that big a problem?
Remember that Denver guy, "slater" maybe, who use to post great pics of his work? Fountain or fishpond with welded copper. Blew me away. As does some of greencu's stuff.
I'm needing a vent in the gable ends of my newly coppered building here (the one with the transluscent panel roof). Ran out of poplar siding and have a lot of copper. Soooo.... gable ends are copper. No brake but I do pretty well with valley tongs.
I was thinking to cut a nice hole, probably oval, maybe amoeba, and build an all-copper louvered vent in place. Pop rivet it. Too cheap to spring for copper screening, so it'll have to be steel on a wood frame inside, where you can't see it.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Slater still posts here.
GreenCu is just awesome in his shop..I mean, he bends for us and teaches us..he has a bender that rivals anything I ever saw..must weigh a ton or two.
I need to post a pic of a tool I made..it is a "prep tool"
Basically a 1/2" Thick by 2" wide alum bar..with a saw kerf about 5/8ths deep, by .120 ...20" long. I can make up horizontal lock seams or any stiffener hems on the roof..a right handy tool.
I think they are made commercially, but I really like mine..I offset the kerf, so I can do the upper and lower locks with one tool..just flip it over. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I kidnapped the runaway bride..her eyse weren't like that in the before pics.
Copper gas tank? Was rust that big a problem?
No, it was pure for "the look." Looked, good, too. Can't remember which monster garage it was, either; the whole project was pretty cool (for a change).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Thanks for the reply (or maybe that should be 'replies'). Also filled in the personal profile. Your suggestion confirmed what I suspected. There aren't a lot of holes that would be exposed in the storefront, so caulking them might be o.k.. The new signage will actually cover a lot of it, but I was more concerned about water getting inside the frame and creating problems. And the client is very cash-strapped, so some of the other suggestions about covering the storefront with new metal would be great, but not financially possible for this guy.And to fill in a little more about what we do, our non-profit actually designs the projects and provides drawings for them. Sort of "architecture-lite." We employ a number of architecture students from Ohio State University so they get a dose of the real world. Very creative bunch, but not as construction-oriented. That's sort of where I come in . . . to crush their dreams with reality (har). Actually, more to show them how to build so they can create better projects, which benefits everybody. But I plan to send them to this site in the future if they have construction-related questions (it's great!). Used to get a subscription to FH for years, then let it go . . . am now thinking about starting it up again. Thanks again!
Draftguy,e-mail me directly. I want to know more about what you do. I've just been going over the newest draft of the Olde Towne East redevelopment plan, and I want someone to talk it over with.You can use brysayer AT earthlink DOT netBryan
You're welcome. As you've seen, we can be a feisty bunch. Not always quite civilized. Often smell like we've been workin'. Sounds like you'll be an asset. Oh, don't let digressions worry you. Sphere's horrible about it. Could be in the middle of a copper roof discussion and he'll go off for awhile about tomato seeds, or bulldozers.
One thing I learned from a good archy, when I was trying to figure out what the column details for a pergola were for, always plan for leaks. Make drainage a reality. That hollow-columned pergola looks great, 17 yrs later. Don't know if the column drainage was necessary, but it was there.
Columbus, eh? Today got an email from an old friend halfway to Toledo who just got a contract for providing 35000 plywood pieces, 1/8" thick, for cushioning a new sewage overflow in Columbus, 12' diameter. That's a lot of crap. And a bunch of work for his (large) shop. He provides a nice L. Erie sailboat when I visit.
Welcome aboard.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
shopping centers are what feed me... alum storefronts i can make look better than new even ones that have been boarded up with a 1000 screw holes in all the alum....
i cap all the alum... my sheet metal guy bends me up a couple hundred feet of colored (baked on finish alum) caps comes with a plastic coating that stays on until i'm finished... usually about 2" across with 1" legs (U shaped) he knows to over bend it just a tad but I'll give him exact sizes so it fits tight... I'll also use alot of L shaped material... depending on the storefront.... I like gloss white... but i have used black... green... and red 99% is held on with a few dabs of vulcum... most would stay on with nothing... with a good pair of snips and a stack of material i can do a good sized storefront in a few hours... i might need a few pop rivits on some oddball stuff... recaulk everything with vulcum and I have a storefront that was ready for the scrap pile looking like or better than new....
for your sign panels... you might try the same baked on finished alum... makes a good start for a sign blank and comes 4ft x 10ft sheets
pony
For the existing holes, I'd probably be inclined to install similarly-sized (though probably shorter) screws with a dab of caulk behind.