Following on from the ‘is business that good’ thread it is obvious that business is that good and that there is more work out there than contractors to do it. This is also true in the area of the UK where I live. The question of selecting clients is therefore an important one.
Recently I was contacted by two potential clients. One wanted a complete kitchen, she had seen some of my work and wanted something in the same style. She, and her husband, was very keen, start as soon as I can, tomorrow would be ok etc etc.
I also had a visit (I have a small showroom) from another couple who needed some bookcases. I spent an hour with them, gave them a quote, then heard no more.
Meanwhile, I rang the kitchen people back to set something up and suddenly everything had changed. It was ‘maybe next month, we will let you know’ sort ot thing. Had a call from the bookcase people, couldn’t decide which to have, would I come over and give some advice? I went, came back with twice the order and a deposit cheque.
So, one bunch of timewasters and a serious, ready to purchase client. Thing is, there was AFAIK no way to tell at the initial meetings.
Anybody have any ideas about how to tell the dreamers from the purchasers?
John
Replies
On the other hand, we are HO's that sold the farm house we live in. The buyer doesn't need it right now but we want to build and move in ASAP.
We had a GC that was going to build for us, starting right away, would have been three weeks into it by now, but, as explained in another thread, several red flags came up, brought up by the contract he submitted and further conversations about it with our attorney and had to give him up.
We had plans we had drawn ourselves, copying the house we live in now, built long ago by a family member that was an architect, with some adaptations for the different site we were going to build in.
When the other deal fell thru, we contacted a friend that normally builds "big town houses". He now has spent three weeks fighting us in most everything we wanted, supposedly knowing better what we need to build here.
We wanted the gabled roof to run with the road, N-S but he wants it E-W (house is practically square). We wanted brick, he wants stucco, giving good reasons of the efficiency of stucco, I may add. We wanted the garage attached, he want's a breezeway and an entry there, a good idea. We want a few SW accents and a "kiva" fireplace (as in the other house) but he considers fireplaces inefficient and wants to put in a pot bellied stove (we are not heating with them, mostly want one for ambience).
All good ideas, but that won't be what we want, really...
And so it is going, to where we don't even have agreed on a design yet! And no, we are not taking his time directly, only meet on the plan two days ago, after one phone talk and one visit to the site last week. He is busy.
I wonder who is the one here that is being difficult? Do we need to build to suit him, or us? He is the one that knows building, but are we that far off on what we want, something that the other builder didn't have any trouble with?
What kind of HO's would you consider us? What kinds are the two builders we have had business contacts with, going to build for the first time in our lives?
Are we being difficult, someone you wouldn't want to deal with? Or just things are not working out smoothly now, but may change later?
Getting back to your question, there may not be any way to know up front how dealing with someone will turn out to be until you are doing it (outside of obviously clear, up front red flags).
That unknown seems to be part of doing business with new people.
In this business, it is something that may get better with experience for you but not for us, since this will be the only time we will be doing this.
Did you consider that maybe those "dreamers" really were going to do something at the time they were talking to you but other in their lives interfered or they saw another way of doing things? Or, as you say, they may have been hoping they could do that remodel but then, once knowing what it was going to be, could not, just had dreams?
Regardless, they should have contacted you if they changed their minds or gave someone else the job.
How about charging for estimates, maybe an hourly rate or a set fee?
Much conflict and misunderstanding here seem to come from not communicating sufficiently and/or clearly enough and not respecting the other person's time.
I don't think you're being difficult at all, Ruby. When I meet potential customers who know what they want, it's a relief. All I have to do then is listen as carefully as possible, come back at the next meeting with questions about their drawings, or drawings based on what I think they told me in the previous meeting, and repeat that process until I believe I know what they want.
Then it's just a matter of negotiating value.
What's hard on me is people who have trouble making decisions. Even if they start out with vague ideas, most people can communicate well enough by exchanging words, sketches, drawings, prints, to eventually get a design they like. Some people really have a tough time making up their minds though, and I worry about pleasing them, even after the work is completed.
You should build a house that suits your tastes. If a builder butts heads with you right from the start, to the point that you feel like they aren't working WITH you, you are working with the wrong builder. No question about it. You're the one who's going to live there. I wouldn't bother calling that second guy back.
Didn't intend to hijack this thread, John, but I will quickly answer to those that spoke to me.
It is a small world. Today our dog club was "snake proofing" dogs and the first builder we were to use was there with his new hunting puppy. He was extremely friendly and not mad at all about the situation with the attorney, shrugging it off. As several threads here indicate, there is plenty of work to go around for all right now so that helps, I think. He really is a nice fellow.
I also saw the builder I am talking with now and he and I went over some of the questions. He seems, as you mentioned, to want to cover all considerations and be sure of what we want and to know what else and why we may do some things differently, or not.
He and us seem to be a little obsessive about wanting all questions cleared and lined up before proceeding. From his questions, he is spending some time thinking about it too, looking for the best in every small and large decision we will need to make. He mentioned that those HO's new to building get very anxious at first until they are sure all is lined up and that if we didn't, he would wonder if we were paying attention and were sure of what we wanted, so there would not be surprises later. He has been doing this for 28 years and seems relaxed about this.
I mentioned reading on this great, informative site and he mentioned wondering where I was learning so much so fast. He liked it.
Now, back to the question of knowing how your first time clients will turn out, I will say that some may sound "wrong" at first but that may be because they may only know a little and some of it be wrong and you may not realize where they are coming from. Let's give us the benefit of the doubt, unless we clearly show that we are not worth your time. I am sure that many of you already do so.<g>
Someone mentioned charging a fee, refundable if given the job for estimates. You may consider doing that.
I'm pretty sure that the reason I got brushed off by the kitchen people is not to do with money. From all the signs, they've got plenty and we hadn't really talked about price anyway. I'm pretty sure that what actualy happened was that they were, at the time, carried away by enthusiasm and the possibility of having a smart new kitchen. Then, when they thought about it, realised that their kitchen would be out of use for a while plus the other inconveniences, decided to put the whole thing off for an indefinite period. In other words, they were not, at the time, serious customers. What rather annoyed me was they didn't say "we're just thinking about it at the moment".
I realise that people often can't help acting the way they do. When I owned a guitar store I was plagued by people coming in, trying a guitar, saying they loved it, would I hold it for a day while they got the money together and then I would never see them again. What they were doing was acting in the way their self image told them to, and then reality would hit them later.
I get annoyed at myself for letting these people get to me, but I guess taking people at their word is just in my nature.
John
ruby i agree with jim. putting it together after it has been designed and drawn is the easy part. the only thing i would add to that is the thing that bothers me the most are changes. i try to plan obssesively, and changes keep me awake at night. as long as the customer is willing to pay, it is ok but i like to be as efficient as possible, and try to give people lots of options while testing how strongly they feel about certain things in the planning stages. changes are usually re-doing things and expensive.
One of the guys that I sometimes use as a subcontractor has a trick that I might adopt for my own business. When a potential customer calls, he tries tog et the best possible description of the work during that initial conversation.
Based on that description, he quickly calculates, then states his "not less than" price. He explains to the customer that there is no way that the described work could be done for less, and if the customer is still interested, he sets up a meeting time.
During the meeting, he gets further into the design elements, and there is further discussion about price -- complete with explanations of why it is now higher than the "not less than" price.
Although this might scare some customers away, it would also be good at weeding out the tire-kickers.