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I’m thinking of offering my services to my neighbor/casual friend. He is having a tough time getting a builder lined up to build one on a 10 acre parcel that he owns.
I’m thinking about offering him my services on a cost plus basis. I’m thinking about 15% on top of all materials/services that I supervise. If the house comes in at 100,000, I’d get $15,000. It almost doesn’t sound that interesting. It’s a lot of time, that will take me away from the framing business.
Advice please!
Blue
Replies
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Blue, sounds like you have to factor in all those intangibles--like value of friendship, internal value--to you--of seeing your friend's house built right, etc. You realize you will be removing yourself from the job market for the duration, so what's it worth to you?
For that kind of money, I gather you plan on being his deputy inspector only.
*Rich, I have no idea what a cost plus markup should be. I've seen the 15% bandied around, and I think it's low.I'm sure 50% would be too much to ask for...Blue
*15% only if you're not handling the money and are not swinging a hammer yourself. Then it seems fair. Since he'd have to give 15% to a GC anyway and would probably worry about the project more than if you supervise, it's good for him. If you do swing a hammer or sweat some copper, add 15-30/hour based on the tasks performed. -David
*Do you still want him to be your friend when you get done? Last time I did this with a "casual friend" as you describe it turned out to be, delicately put, less than satisfactory.So, advise per your request, let him put it out to bid, then if your bid is the best do the job.It just ocurred to me; wonder why he is having a tough time getting a builder?
*Blue,David has it right. If you do anything that involves tools, charge for it. The more interesting question is from Fred. Is there tat much work that no one has time or does the guy give every one a bad feeling? Don't go with your heart, go with yur gut.
*Yes David, I am talking about gcing it for the 15%.I charge 35$ per hour for my services, and would not discount them at this time of the year.Blue
*There are not that manybuilders in this area, and he is going to do some of the work himself. He owns a backhoe, and is going to put in the culvert/drive, and probaly the septic system. He is a decent man, and builders just don't want to be bothered with a 75% job, since they are swamped already.Blue
*Err Rob. I thought your gut feeling was your heart, and vice versa.Blue
*Yeah, I pretty much think David has it right; at least that is what I was thinking when I posted originally (1.0) You have it right about not discounting your labor rate.I have a problem with something FredB said re: open bid. Your bid is exclusive of other bids, that is, yours has a value attatched that the other bids would not have. I'm not talking about the friendship, but the fact that you are--shall we say--prequalified in the eyes of the owner.Further, would the owner expect other bidders to look out for his interests to the same degree as you would? The answer is obvious. You should not have to go out to open bid. It's a take it or leave it situation. However, you may act as project manager--more accurately in this case, deputy inspector. You would be paid a percentage but act like a sub that has subbed out the actual const.Just don't plan on doing any of the const. work. This way, you can offer the whole pie to bidders, not just a 75% job. Also, perhaps your friend is entrusting to you the task of bidder selection. He respects your field knowledge and work contacts. Just plan on making this your new second job.
*Got caught using the wrong word again. Didn't really mean "bid" to be "open bid". Was trying to say that you should have him find out what it would cost for someone else to do the job as compared for how you would price the job. That takes out the "give me a break your my friend" part of the deal and keeps the "I know you and trust you" part that you want to keep.It also provides a way to put the relationship on a more business basis and clear up any misunderstandings that might become a problem.If he gets no other bids then perhaps you need to look at the deal again to see why. I've been in some pretty hot markets but have never seen a job go unquoted unless there was something hinky about it.From your original post it looks like you aren't really that enthused about the job in the first place but want to help out a neighbor. Never forget: "A good deed never goes unpunished." So my counsel is to move it to a clear business deal for both his and your benefit.
*Blue,My heart is higher than my gut so normally the 2 feelings are seperate. I will admit to finding both in my mouth at the same time leading to a very unfortable feeling.Rob
*Fred, I'm not enthused, mainly because of the thing Rich warned about; "plan on making this your new second job".I've decided not to pursue the job. I really don't want a second job. I can make the same money by staying on my frames jobs longer each day, and I rarely do that. I am interseted in building, but not contract jobs. I hate living up to other people's expectations. If I want to frame a house without curtain blocks, and bridging, I don't want to explain it. i don't want to do those things, even if I get paid special to do it. I'll offer to frame it, if he can get the foundaton in.Besides, I have a new boat to break in this summer,Blue
*Oh yeah, Thanks for the replies. They help to bring the issues that lie in my subconscience to the surface!It's that gut/heart feeling thingy!Blue
*Isn't it amazing what a little bouncing ideas off others' will do for the comfort level of a decision? Ain't it neat?Have fun with the boat.
*Gotta agree with 'ya Blue.Just paid for my dock this afternoon.
*Oh, man! The Horrors! The Guilt! Don't blame me for saying something that made you decide to tell your friend, "No". And whatever you do, don't let your friend see this thread, he may coming looking for us. He's probably thinking you're putting a stop to your friendship. You're probably thinking you helped your friendship big time.
*Docks!!!!!!!!!!! That could be a new thread!Start it off by telling us what your new dock is made of!Blue
*Don;t worry 'bout him. He'll be bette off avoiding my boogerin' ways!Blue
*Blue, RUN don't walk away if you want to keep this guy as a friend.
*Now that is a coincidence! I have to build a dock on a river soon. There is an eight foot bank from top to normal water level. At flood the river will go to bank top and at low water the distance is 9 feet. River flows about 7mph. Need to have the capability of raising the dock and ramp each fall and putting back down after freeze-up and repeating in spring.Ideas on materials, floatation substance, and design that would allow raising and lowering something like a ship's gangplank? Material choice is open but there is no road access to the site so must be able to be handled by two or three people.
*Hmmm, I haven't been to this section in a while.I'm sure by now Blue, you know how a house goes together. And I'm sure you also know a good foundation sub and some rockers and a couple of good trim guys, roofers...Why don't you talk to them and see if they'd be interested in giving you a bid? Put together a package, and tack on a GC fee.If you do the framing, you'd be there quite a bit anyhow to coordinate the other subs. You wouldn't really be taking yourself out of the framing market for that long. How many guys do you have to keep busy? Maybe when you're done framing your friend's house you could get another, give one of your guys a slight promotion and spend a little less time on that job site whilst you were working out the details on your friend's house. Maybe start him off with an easy one.It might be the best thing you've done for your wrists in a long time.Then again if you're not careful it could be the worst thing you've done for your checkbook in a long time. (If he's going to dig the hole, you might want to make sure you're there with a transit so he doesn't do something stupid).I'll tell you what though, if you just chuckled when rookie tossed two of your levels out of his way, then you're already half way there. Patience is a virture.Especially when working for family and friends.Dan
*Gut...senses trouble and gets ready to fight or flee or says things are pretty good so lets grab a beer!Heart is love and emotions being allowed to overule reason and risk safety (being requested by head and gut!)Did I get this close to right?Near the stream and pretty good at first impressions lasting,J