Hi guys,
Not only am I having a problem getting a flooring company to install an engineered hardwood floor properly. I now have a sill installed and it appears they didn’t use pressure treated wood. I looked over the scraps of wood they left behind and I’m posting it here to make sure. It certainly doesn’t look like pressure treated to me. (rot was discovered on one of the sill plates on the left side of the house and I had my carepenter come in to replace the rotten pieces which turned out to be a 3′ X 3′ of board.
If I’m not mistaken aren’t you always supposed to use pressure treated wood if you are joining wood to masonry/concrete in my case cinder block.
Is it worth having them remove the vinyl again to get at the sill to install new pressure treated wood. I don’t think so. But then I’m not a tradesperson.
Wanda
Edited 8/9/2009 8:20 pm by Wanda200
Replies
Whooops. Nope, not Pressure Treated.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"
Jed Clampitt
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Hi Sphere,
Could you tell me what those Letters stand for. I'm assuming this wood contains around 18-19% moiture.
Wanda
The wood species is Spruce-Pine-Fir, as opposed to SYP = souther yellow pine, or DF = douglas fir. The 2 says it's grade number 2.
KD = kiln dried. Usually there is a number after that like 18 which means it was dried to 18%.
The numbers at the bottom are the mill id number.
The letters on the left are the manufacturer, like GP = Geaogia Pacific.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Edited 8/10/2009 8:35 am ET by FastEddie
We are allowed in some jurisrictions to use KD wood for sill plate, the BI accepted the fact that with sill sealer, which is a piece of foam, the wood does not in reality touch the concrete.
I can't tell you this is what has happened in your case, but.....
I really suspect you have been bamboozelled again, sorry.
'round here termites just LOVE that detail. I had to jack up my 42' long 2 story addition and remove the non PT sill and add a copper termite shield then replace with PT sill and band.
Not a fun way to spend a weekend.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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I can sympathize with you on that. Just had to replace a sill on my back porsh, it was only 120-130 yrs old. Just a little younger than your cabin!
No, get this. It was the "new" addition out back, less than ten years old! The previous owner was a nimrod and used no termite shield or sill sealer or PT. It and the band and few joist bottoms were swiss cheese in less than 10 yrs.
I swear the log part is in better shape than what he built.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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I'm not familiar with your locality, but many have a code requiring wood touching masonry be pressure treated. If this is true here, then you have a code violation which the contractor is required to correct. It sometimes happens, I once caught the same violation on a 40,000 sqft commercial project which was using union labor. Guess they just had a brain fart. Thankfully we had a good contractor who insisted on correcting their error. I commend him for that because they had to rip out several days worth of work to fix it.
Certified boat fetish.
but many have a code requiring wood touching masonry be pressure treated.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
That I believe is nationwide.
The part he is referring to was a previous owner.
unbelievable!
Wanda,
I've been following your ongoing, multiple sagas. Interesting reading but geez, hopefully you should soon be getting to the end of the list.
What else can go wrong?
Good luck, Todd
It's not pressure treated. How far from grade is the sill? I'm not so much worried about it pulling moisture from the foundation if a sill sealer is used. I'd be more concerned with insect damage. If your house is or is to be treated regularly, and the sill is far enough away from the soil, I don't think it's worth paying to have it re-done. It's definitely worth mentioning to your carpenter though.
in this case where it's on CMUs there is the concern that the termites will travel inside the CMUs so distance from ground is no that important.
The fact that she's in Canada means there's less risk of termites. She needs to ask the local BI what is acceptable.
Hi Guys,
Termites are not a problem where I live (east coast/Canada) but moisture can be.
Seems our building codes are slack. (minimal)
I have no idea if sill sealer was used.
I do have a picture I can download and post.
The house has a cider block fondation. with perhaps 3ft of the fondation above ground. It's a deep basement.
Wanda
Edited 8/10/2009 4:55 pm by Wanda200
At three feet, bugs probably wouldn't even be a problem anyway as loon as you kept the plants trimmed back. If a sill sealer was used, I think you should be fine. But it could be difficult to determine. Ask your carpenter if he used one. If he flat out says no... Atleast you know he is honest. If he says yes... You can take it however you want. It's not the way I would have done it, but it'll probably not develop any noticeable problems for as long as you are in the house. If it were going to cost you to have it re-done, I'd leave it. If you are going to take it to the contractor to have him fix it, then by all means, go ahead. Look at the bright side, atleast it's vinyl covering it and not something more difficult to work with.
Hi,
As they say, don't sweat the small stuff. I'll just ask him out of curiosity but I'm not going to bother having him fix it. I want these men out ASAP!
Wanda
Hello,
Here's a picture of the newly repaired sill. This picture was taken from inside the basement. As you can tell it's a fairly deep cinderblock basement.
Oh 1 more ? before I forget. What should the relative humidy be in a basement.. what's more or less normal for a basement that isn't finished. (not framed) I have a dehumidifier set up down there and it's reading 73 % RH. I took the dehumidifier from upstairs and set it up in the basement yesterday so I'm sure at the end of the week the levels will come down. The default setting is 60% RH.
Wanda
Edited 8/11/2009 8:52 am by Wanda200
Uhhhh..where'd that pipe used to go? Does it smell like septic down there?Humidity is all over the map, outside conditions and what is open or vented will affect it, and most basements will be fairly higher than other parts of the house just because they are below grade.But that pipe...something is not cool there unless it's capped.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Looks to be an oddly placed cleanout to me. You can see something, (hopefully the screw on cap) sticking above the fitting.
Or, maybe the plumber ran out of 90's and had that and a cap..:)
Or maybe it's open....which after reading the rest of this poor woman's threads, would be par for the course.
If the carp is telling you that he used pt, I would be inclined to tell him to his face that he's a for king liar.
probably not worth re-doing at this point, as long as it's really 3 ft off grade. What was the cause of the last sill rotting? bugs or moisture? At the least, I'd make sure there's a good lap on the siding so that no water gets at it from the outside. Some grace over it wouldn't hurt either. Bug inspection on a regular basis...should be ok.
As a lurker...sometime poster...I'm familiar with your struggles. Sorry for the difficulties you've had. There will always be people in every trade that take the hack way out, whether it's flooring, roof framing, or sill replacement. It's embarassing for those of us that care about the work we do. I think it's more prevalent when dealing with a woman also, they think they can "get away" with more.(not so in YOUR case, obviously..) Hopefully you can put all the nonsense behind you and enjoy the place when all is said and done.
Good luck
Bing
Hi Bing,
So you are familiar with all the reno problems I have encountered. I"ve been at this since Last July when I signed a contract with a reputable company to come in and install a new roof on this 35yr old bungalow. They were told to let me know if they came across any problems.
I do have a concern about rott. I will have to post you the picture of the flooring in the bedroom. Strangely enough it was the floor installer who noticed the rotting underlay in the bedroom after he had laid the vinly flooring down. The carpenter has since gone in and repaired the flooring. He cut out a small 1 1/2 X 1 1/2" patch. Replaced a small section of sill.
Wanda
Hi Sphere,
Don't get your knickers in a knot! That's the old septic pipe and it's capped.
The basement smells fine and it's looking pretty darn clean since I removed all the #### the carpenters left down there. My god! what a messy crew.
Wanda
RH I try to keep at 50% or down to 45%. RH won't change on it's own regardless of how it's finished. How it's heated may change the RH. I always advise to get a dehumidifier (or two) to control the RH. How your water is handled outside of the house is a critical factor to controlling RH inside the basement. Gutters and where they drain to, grade of the land around the house, and condensate drains are key components to control.
Edited 8/11/2009 2:08 pm ET by john7g
It certainly looks like non-PT. And it does look like there is a run of sill seal under the mudsill. But the mudsill still should have been PT.
Even if it's not code required, which in my area it is, it's a minimal building practice. Not a "better" or "best" building practice, but "minimal".
I too am in Canada (BC) and I can tell you that a non-PT sill plate would NEVER be acceptable. This is basic framining-101 knowledge and I can't imagine a competent frammer that would overlook this detail. I wouldn't pay them until it's fixed. If the job is being inspected, it will fail, for good reason.
Good luck,
Scott.
Hey Scott, you must not have been following the saga. It has passed inspection!
Missed that part. BI must have been asleep at the switch, just like me....Scott.
That OK, we are enjoying the follies from a distance. I guess I am glad it wasn't me!!
Hi Wanda,
I'm from Toronto and I've had to go in and fix things contractors have either NOT done right, or not at all. Not all contractors are bad, remember. Even though these guys are screwing you around, unfortunately, you are still required by law to pay them. They can take you to court if you hold back any money. It's a pathetic thing, I know, but unless you take them to court yourself, they may not fix the wrongs they do. They may have as many excuses as your arm is long. (You are over five feet, aren't you? LOL)
I just had a flood in my basement from last Tuesday's rain (came up through the drain in the basement). When the sub-floor was removed, I noticed the sole (sill) plate on the concrete floor. I'm sure the wall was built well over ten years ago. There is no sign of rot or any other damage. The basement is bone dry.
You should be able to feel under the sill plate where the opening of the cinder block is. I'd call the building inspector if you don't find a gasket (poly or foam). At least you are paying attention to their work.
Hi,
I can check out the sill from inside tomorrow but I"m sure there is no sill sealer.
I will ask my carpenter. He's a pretty decent guy but I guess he's not the sharpest tool in the shop.
Wanda