Hey all,
New member here. Been building for way too many years and have held a “B” for about the last 18, so………..
I am acting as an “expert” for a friend that wants to run his own job and save a bit of dough. I had a sub that I have been working with for the last 5 years blow it big time on this job. This sub hurt his back and had no choice but to let his lead man [J-Man] work on some joisting layout.
On this job, he had to remove some LVL’s which suffered water damage and were overspanned anyway. This is a waterproofed deck surface that is over a game room downstairs. So the plywood comes up, the LVL’s come up and new LSL’s go in at 12″ o.c. I ordered 16″ LSL’s so there would be no problem in cutting my slope for the deck surface and maintaining the spec’d 11-7/8″ minimum in joist thickness. Here is where the problem starts…….
I hit the site to check on the sub’s guys when the first joist is cut and I see that there is not enough slope, I show him and he assures me that he will cut the proper slope, I call his boss to give him a heads up as well. This happened on 3 different occasions and fast forsward to now, the 1-1/8″ ply is sitting under a blue tarp after these California rains getting nice and saturated. Bottom line is that we have ended up with an unacceptable 1/8″-1′ slope at BEST. The sub has acknowledged responsibility [not without some tap dancing] and is willing to fix the problem created. I want him to remove the now saturated ply and snap new lines and re-slope the joists [12″ o.c.= 4-1/2″ sidewinder-imo]. He wants to use a combination of lifting the ledger [now we cannot use the 3/4″ Bluestone tiles that we have saved] and using some kind of 3’rd party substance [something LIKE Vitex] in order to create additional slope. Now we have to put our waterproofing, a high end 3 part hot rubber product utilizing primer on substrate, Kevlar like membrane and then the rubber [the name escapes me right now] either on top of saturated wood [after it dries of course] or on top of this now introduced 3’rd party surface that may delaminate from the substrate……..
Queston, has anybody had any experience with some kind of material that is applied in order to create slope underneath a waterproof membrane? I have never had to do this type of application as I have never had this kind of issue come up. Any advice would be appreciated. Glad to see this kind of forum.
M.E.
Replies
Oops! Sorry! I hit the wrong forum, I will post it over in house chat. M.E.
I think you're okay in this forum. Maybe "business" would have been better but you're here now.What kind of contract do you have, if any, with the sub? Are there specs or plans that define the necessary slope and the method to achieve it?I'm no roofer but I know you can buy foam that has a preslope. I think you're right about removing the ply (1-1/8" spanning 10.5"?!?) and either letting it dry (watch for delaminating) or replacing.Finally, welcome. Stay a while, I'm sure you will both contribute and learn much.
Jon Blakemore
Hey Jon,
I had no contract with the sub as I was basically "putting people together". The H.O. and sub have the contract.In the contract there is no stipulation or reference to slope. I have worked with this sub/aquaintance for some time and he knows what is up. We directly discussed 1/4"-1' on plenty of occassions, the old addage, "put it in writing" is nipping at my behind!Our permitted plans were the engineer's drawings and had no reference to slope. I would not have expected any on his drawings as he is strictly structural.My biggest concern is that I want a solid connection between the substrate and the waterproof membrane as I would prefer no movement whatsoever. The material that this sub is talking about using is a plastic like material intended to float/trowell on to a given surface.This is a deck area as well with eventual tile and ballustrade. The area is roughly 40' across and 18' out.1-1/8" ply was spec'd out by the engineer to go over the LSL's at 16" o.c. We thought we would do a bit of overbuilding as even the lightweight ballustrade runs approx. 70 lbs. per foot finished.
Thanks for the nice welcome!
M.E.
As far as re-cutting the pitch goes, I would probably use my cheaper power plane. Since there will be a nail or two left after he takes up the plywood, I would have an older set of knives in it and a spare set ready to go too. five ascending cuts on each I-joist and it is doneFor the plywood, after being wet and then taken up, I doubt the top surface will be smooth enough to be suitabel for roof membrane unless it gets skim-filled and sanded. when wet weather is anticipated for a job like this ( always in some climates) we would prefer to do the structural work as one ply and then top it off with 3/8" AC ply at the last minute - glued and screwed of course) to provide a smooth dry subsrate. or to use the 1/2" roof baord subply material over the sheathing plywood.That means the design needed to allow for dimension in the elevation to do this - for me anywaybut the real problem it seems from your report, is that the sub's lead amn chose to ignore you and now the sub has some costs to absorb. As you have reported, you did the necessary things to assure proper work wa performed. you can't be held up for someone elses unintentional sabotage
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If I understand you right he didn't rip enough pitch as you told his main guy. So now he has to take the plywood off and rip them down the right way but he wants to lift the ledger up a little which causes you not to use the bluestone that you want.
If that's the case and there's no other solution to fix and you still can use your bluestone then you tell him to rip out the plywood and rip those beams down to the right pitch PERIOD!. There's no excuse to make a mistake and not try to fix it the right way because we all make mistakes even though his main guy did but that doesn't matter it's still his company so he's responsible to fix it. Part of being a good contractor is learning how to fix your mistakes or someone elses.
Anyone who's good with a circular saw can set up a nice safe scaffold and cut them right in place. It's as simple as that.