Got me wondering here…what are some of the absurd/disrespectful things HO’s have told you, and what did you do in response?
Long story, some who know me know I been working for a problematic PITA HO. I had to cancel working for this HO this past Friday due to another job that was taking longer than expected. I guess this HO got upset and it was eating at them all weekend that I cancelled. Long story short, I arrived today to start work and I detect an attitude from the HO. Situation deterioated from there. I didn’t yell or scream, just remained calm. HO drops the F bomb and says “F. U.” to me and slams the fridge door. I tell the windbags husband to please never ask me back again, and I’m walking off the job and good night, and pay my bill in 15 days which he didn’t like at all.
Replies
That's not the way Norm would do it!!!!!!
Believe it or not I had the HO say that to me--I told them " I'm here-He's not and I don't have corporate sponsership"
I made sure that I said it in a way that was as serious or as kiddingly as they said to me.
I never said any thing else and I got nothing but compiments when the job was done and they went on to refer me to a co-worker.
I think that I stood my ground on my craftsmanship and earned their respect all in one comment.
Mike
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
OK, some that really bugged me:
"I know you're overcharging me because my nephew knows a little bit about construction, and he told me he could do it for less." (On a verrrry custom remodel that I made next to nothing on)
"My neighbor is a contractor, and he said this job is overbuilt."
(on an insurance job) "I had vinyl flooring down before I put the carpet in, so I expect you to cover my floor with sheet vinyl before you put the new carpet in." (the ins. co. veto'ed this ridiculous demand)
(on a slight paint run on a custom cabinet) "I could have gotten a better cabinet at Wal-Mart."
"Thanks for spending all that time putting your proposal together, but I found an unlicensed guy who does this on weekends, and he said he could beat your price."
"I logged your guys' time here, and you're making too much money on this job" (this was an insurance job, and the guy who said it was a govenment contractor...you know, the guys who charge $700 for a screwdriver!!)
I could go on, but my blood pressure is starting to rise =)
Wow, those are pretty good. Especially the Walmart Cabinet one. Oh geesh. Of course I always love the "my neighbor is a contractor" deal. I can't prove it, but I lost a bid last week for an addition and the HO constantly referred to the fact his neighbor has done contracting. Led me to believe, however, that I was a strong candidate to get the job. Wrote me the other day, said he gave it to "someone else" who came in "substantially cheaper." This was a proposal without blueprints (which were coming but not yet done). Ok whatever, I think the neighbor had something to do with it, seriuosly.
Sometimes I carry out a piece of work for an HO. They complain that something isn't working right. I investigate and find the problem, which is in a related part but one which is outside my contract. I show them the cause of the problem and get the 'but it was alright before you started'. Usually this complaint is accompanied by an obvious refusal to understand the cause of the problem.
John
OK, how about this one... "That outlet worked fine before you started." And when I opened the wall to investigate, the romex was cut right next to a door that was added long before we got there!Or one job, the homeowner was caulking a tub in another room, we weren't even working on. She asked one of my guys to help her out, when I wasn't there. He did, and the part he did turned out beautiful. But the part that the homeowner had done previously looked even worse compared to his work. So she called the next day to complain the tub my guy caulked looked terrible. I patiently explained to my guy why we can't do that. We touch it, we own it. Had to take it all out, and re-caulk the whole thing. Doncha just love it?------------edited to add: Oh yeah, and "I just shut the cabinet door and it fell off in my hand." When I got there, the thing looked like someone had run a battering ram through it!
Edited 5/10/2005 3:16 am ET by Huck
"I have my proposal right here and it shows you reversed two of the steps so you are not doing the work in the right order!"
"Coping! Who ever heard of coping?! This is crown molding and it is supposed to be mitered! Not coping. I will hire someone that knows what they are doing!"
"You can't be serious that without a post there the house would fall in. (I take a hammer and hit the base out of the temporary post and the drywall starts to crack) Ok! Ok! You could have just told me! " DanT
Had to take it all out, and re-caulk the whole thing. Doncha just love it?
Another good one.
I was mainly painting rooms in a house, but did some other things too. Anyway, HO asks if I had put the plastic up on the frame over one door--it looked like tiny "angle iron". I said that I hadn't and she said, "Well, I never saw it before!" Now, maybe I'm just taking words wrong, but her tone of voice was not like , "Hmm, gosh, I never noticed it before!" So she told me whatever, she didn't like it and wanted me to put a wood stop there instead. I told her I had already noticed the plastic and had planned to put wood in instead; even bought the stop material (in pine).
Then she decided it had to match exactly the color of wood that was there--aged, dark redish brown. She said to use the stain she had in the basement. I used walnut; not dark enough. Went over it with mahogany stain/varnish. Still not dark enough. She said she would go buy stain and I said, "Llook, I noticed you have some dark brown enamel; try that instead of buying a can of stain for one three foot piece of stop." She did--even "grained" it. When I put it in place, it matched well enough to suit even her!
"Somethings wrong with the magnets on these cabinets the doors won't stay shut" Turns out a set of plates were to big for the cabinets.
"Why doesn't this outlet work when you put the outlet outside in you must have disconnected it"
The lamp she was using the bulb wasn't screwed in
"I should of never let you talk me out of those pocket doors"
You can't put pocket doors there your plumbing is in those walls.
This was today on my last day of punchout after 10 months of this you think they might ask nicely instead of insisting you did something wrong every time.
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Remodeler/Punchout
Brings back old memoriesI had one HO who called to complain that none of his exterior lights would work.
his caretaker was too lazy to change lightbulbs so whever one would burn out, he'd just turn on another one - all winter long...battering ram? I got a call to fix a table leg for a table I had built. It looked like a Hummer had driven over it, after somebody threw it across the room. I had the feeling that the echoes of marital bliss lost werre still bouncing around the room from the night before.
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Pyro
This wouldn't be the woman and her lawyer husband would it?
You couldn't possibly still be dealing with her could you!
Doug
This wouldn't be the woman and her lawyer husband would it?
I am SOOOOOO ashamed to say yes it is. It's been TOO painful an experience because I was owed a lot of money and needed it bad. The GOOD NEWS is, I got paid tonight, every precious pretty penny of it, I got it. I think they felt guilty for really verbally assaulting me last night and figured it'd somehow ease my pain to jus swallow hard, and pay and let the issue drop. I GOT EVERY PENNY due to me. I"m going to the bank in the AM and relish the fact I got every penny I billed for.
Pyro
Well it took long enough!
At least you got your money, now you can get your sanity back.
Doug
Not to be a stick in the mud, but dont count your pennies before the check clears. And that will take a couple of days.
On a screened-in porch (already underway) the owner asks about adding skylights then says since I would be using less roof materials I'd have to give some money back.
Just give them the cutout sheathing, felt, and shingles in a box. Tie a ribbon on it, make it a green one. Tell them maybe Home Depot will refund the unused portion.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
"owner asks about adding skylights then says since I would be using less roof materials I'd have to give some money back."Heard the same logic today from a HO who expects to pay less for a laminate floor installed around an island in the kitchen (where I just installed 28 cabinets this week). I told her I would charge more not less with the island. She was dumbfounded.
Some years ao i was doing some repair work in a bathroom in a place rented to students. They decided to go out. One their way out the door, one of them calls back to me "Try not to steal anything, OK?"
I could hardly speak, but I walked out to the door with my hammer in my hand and the look on my face stopped them cold. I managed to advise the kid to try not to be such a f'ing a'hole.
Ron
Last week I thought I was going to get frisked by a HO who was bent out of shape about a missing cabinet handle. I had opened all the packages of hardware at once and spread the handles and screws all over the kitchen in various drawers and inside cabinets for quick installation. Of course, I had a dozen of my tool boxes and tool bins/trays positioned throughout the kitchen as well. One of the handles got nudged out of a cabinet and landed in one of my toolboxes (unbeknownst to me).As I finished up over $1000 worth of cabinet installing in two days, the HO pointedly asks where the missing handle is. She has only one extra and there should be two. I say I don't know, but it should turn up. She says she wants me to go through all of my stuff to find it before I go (this is for a $5 extra handle on what must be a $10,000 project).Now I have about 1,500 pounds of tools and supplies I lug around--it's a lot of stuff to go through--especially after a very long day. I had also done a very good job on this quite challenging kitchen and I get interegation instead of "thanks and don't worry about the handle." I think she really thought I was trying to steal a single handle that I have no use for and it would cost me more to return the handle than I can make using my time working rather than waiting in a return line.I felt violated.
That would be true, Handy, if you gave them exactly what they wanted, a skylight. You know, the kind where there is merely a hole in the roof, that's it, that is after all a skylight. Maybe that is what they were asking for.
but dont count your pennies before the check clears. And that will take a couple of days.
Yeah I know. HO called me today to proclaim the funds have been moved in today so that I can deposit now. We'll see. Hey, I KNOW where they live, if ya know what I mean :)
I am SOOOOOO ashamed to say yes it is. It's been TOO painful an experience because I was owed a lot of money and needed it bad. The GOOD NEWS is, I got paid tonight, every precious pretty penny of it, I got it. I think they felt guilty for really verbally assaulting me last night and figured it'd somehow ease my pain to jus swallow hard, and pay and let the issue drop. I GOT EVERY PENNY due to me. I"m going to the bank in the AM and relish the fact I got every penny I billed for.
Personal check? :)
jt8
It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. --Chinese proverb
Lets see if it clears... Im always the optimist..:>)
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Lets see if it clears... Im always the optimist..:>)
Oh, you'll take a check? I thought you wanted money. :)
jt8
It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. --Chinese proverb
i feel your pain on the gettig paid part . you said you really needed the job. i have been a carpenter a long time but when i went out on my own about a year and a half ago i had to become a buisness man (wasn't good at it) . I landed two remodel jobs both in the fourteen to fifteen thousand dollar range big in my sitiuation. I priced them too low broke barely even on one lost money on the other. When it happened i was doubting my ability to run a buisness. Turns out it was the best hard lesson i ever learned i have made a profit on every job since i priced low because i needed the work. Now i have hardended up and won't be beat down if they dont like my price i dont budge.
wdwrkr,
I keep fearing I"ll make the same mistake as you do. My biggest hurdle is knowing what to charge and what the market will bear. I look at a lot of jobs and wonder if I'm too low. I always feel I"m too low but am never sure. How did you figure out what was the right price to charge ultimately?
My biggest hurdle is knowing what to charge and what the market will bear.
Well, now, there's a question. I've had to think this one out thoroughly over the last few months. The conclusion that I have come to is that it is important to have enough leads to be able to quote the prices you need to and to shrug off the ones that don't want to pay your prices. Successful businesses often quote a 25% closure rate. In other words, you are trying to get 4 times as many calls on jobs as your capacity will allow you to undertake.
Knowing what your competition would charge on any particular job - well, we would all love to have that information but I don't know any practical way of getting it. What you really need to know is how much you need to charge, then charge it. Concentrate of generating pleny of leads.
John
Edited 5/20/2005 3:18 am ET by john
I used to keep an eye on what my competition was charging by asking the HO to disclose the range of the prices that they got on the project after the contract had been awarded [ if it was not awarded to me].I explained that it was least they could do in return for my efforts to provide a free estimate. Many agreed, enough in fact to give me a fair idea of the state of the business around me.
"There's a problem with this jacuzzi tub."
The HO was complaining about a grungie residue (tub ring).
I had to explain that when you take a bath...dirt and oil and dead skin will combine with soap and produce this "ring."
HO swore the grunge was coming out of the jetts.
I said, "OK, lets test it." Cleaned the scum, filled with clean water, and ran the tub for 10 minutes. "No ring," I said. The only way to avoid this problem, is to shower before you bathe.
I had to explain that when you take a bath...dirt and oil and dead skin will combine with soap and produce this "ring."
I thnk I can top that one. This same HO kept noticing this "ash" like brown fuzzy material laying around on the tops of the brand new tiles I had laid for her. I kept seing the stuff myself and wondering what it was. Figured it was just some oddball type of dirt. Anyways, she accused me of installing inferior tile (never mind she picked it out), saying that the tile surface is "scuffing" off and that that was what the little brown pieces of dirt were.
Hey I have yet another.....same HO again. I did DW finishing for her. I keep my knives clean but often they develop a little rust on them. I just mud and tape with the rust on. Sometimes you see some brown streaks in the mud when I first start up. She insists that that rust would come thru the paint ruining the paint job later. I rebuffed her nonsense repeatedly, she'd have nothing to do with it, kept insisting. She even offered to buy me new knives each time. I said "look, if it'll make you feel better I"ll sand off the rust before starting" and I did. Didn't matter. Gosh darn it, been months since I painted and not one rust streak so far has shown thru.
One last one, same HO again.....You'll love this one....I like using a big grout sponge to cleanup tubs and floors. I was using the sponge on her roman tub faucet spout to clean it when she comes in and says I'm doing it wrong and that my sponge will cause her fixtures to rust because I"m making them wet. Oh and that was months ago and last I looked, her fixtures looked as clean as the day out of the box. NO RUST. AAAAYYYEEEEEEE
Edited 5/10/2005 11:57 pm ET by Pyrotechie
You're out of there now, right?
Those customers are incredible. You could write a book with their kookiness alone.
If I ever write a book about goofy HO's, I might call it "Shower Before You Bathe."
In Japan when you go to a public bath you are washed down with soap and water BEFORE you get into the bath.
DaneI will always be a beginner as I am always learning.
Hey, where is that homeowner that was posting in the business section about lousy contractors? He needs to read some of this just to show it happens on both sides. lol. DanT
When would it hit the book stores? I would love to read one of them!!!
Ha! I like that one!
You should have told them, "next time buy a square tub so it will not leave a ring."
HO yelled at me because her flooring was wrong.
I'm the cabinet installer!
Good one! DanT
Home owner as GC should not be allowed.
Stand back, I am a trained professional.
Cab, the flooring was wrong because you of how you mounted the cabinets. See the logic? To me it's as plain as day, c'mon man, get with the program. LOL
You wanted those cabinets square, plumb, and level? Thas's going to cost you extra.
I love my job,
I love my job,
I love my job,
I love my job, If I say it enough times......
Not actually a homeowner, but the secretary for a designer I did some work for a few years ago.
She really screws up the tile order for the shower space. No bullnose trim tiles for the front edges, and no shower floor tile, etc. Must not have bothered to look at the itemized list I provided her with. So I leave a message that I cannot start until the proper tile is onsite.
She calls in a panic on the phone and asks me if we could use extra 4" x 4" wall tiles on the shower floor. I explain that it would be a bit slippery.
She asks how many square feet we would need for the shower floor if we ordered 1" x 1" tiles. 3' x 3' shower pan (= nine square feet). She hangs up and calls a few minutes later and asks how many square feet we would need if we ordered 2" x 2" tiles for the shower floor. Again, I tell her nine square feet. She immediately goes off on me on the phone about how I am NOT listening to her, explaining that I just told her a few minutes prior that we would need nine square feet if we used 1" x 1". I wait for silence and then explain....If we used one big tile, it would be a 3' x 3' tile which equals nine square feet, further explaining that the size of the tile does not magically transform the size of the shower pan space. She promptly hung up the phone.
This was a few years ago, and that secretary now has an interior design degree. Scary.
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
Not a HO story, but along the same lines:I was on the phone asking a dental receptionist for directions to the office. We get to the point where I say "I'm traveling along Acme Blvd, do I turn North or South to enter the parking lot?"She says "It depends on which way you're going on Acme"
Bryan, when you got there, was she blonde?
I don't recall, but it was a somewhat large practice with several recepionists. Don't know which one I talked to, other than she was directionally impaired...
I hate some of those directions. Liike last month, I went down to NH for some lumber and driving along, I'm looking for route 101 ( or whatever it was) north. As everyone in the country knows, all odd numbered routes run north and south, according to the map I'm looking at my route runs north and south, but I come to an interchange and the friggin' signs say Rte 101 West! or Route 101 East, fer crying out loud!
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"Liike last month, I went down to NH for some lumber and driving along, I'm looking for route 101 ( or whatever it was) north."yup, 101 runs east west roughly from the coast to Keene.but, boy, you got my curiosity up. that kinda far south to go for lumber for you, tain't it?
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
Highlland Hardwoods - Brentwood.gresat place, good stuff. Worth the trip when I'm gettting 2-3 thousand dollars worth
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'm originally from the deep south. Small roads there often don't bother with E/W//N/S. It's all toward "small town" or "REALLY small town".Never mind verbal directions. "Tak this'n road hera til you come to a stop ligth and turn right..."What should I do if the light is green?
When I lived in SoCal, I useta give directions like that.
Except it was a stop light. Not a red/green/yellow signal light.
Just a red flashing light all four ways.
Goin' from a smaller town to a small town.
SamT
Once I was given a mile marker for a turn off from the highway and told to go four "C's". C's? "Yeah, go as far as you can 'see' four times."
I laughed, but they were great directions!
LOL, I once took a road for eighty miles that showed on the maps as a state highway in utah. It shortly turned into a mud single lane track fit only for 4X4.
The Scenic route!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I did the exact same thing in Idaho/nothern Washington state.How weird is it to be on a road marked as a highway, follow it for forty miles, and all of a sudden find yourself driving for another 30 miles, on a muddy track, stopping every few miles to open and shut cattle gates ???Worse, to get stared down by a bull standing in the middle of the road, for fifteen minutes... On a road marked as a highway....After taking an hour to get 10 miles, you start to wonder about your own memory. Did this road really turn from paved road to gravel, and then dirt, or did I somehow turn somewhere without realizing it ???
A person with no sense of humor about themselves, has no sense at all.
"I once took a road for eighty miles that showed on the maps as a state highway in utah. It shortly turned into a mud single lane track fit only for 4X4."
Your point being?
My point? Let me capsulize what you might have missed...There has been a minor thread within this major thread going back some ways. one of the problems with HOs and instructions is that they cannot communicate directions about what they want. The subset of this is that there are those who cannot give directions how to travel either, so there has been an ongoing conversation mixed within this thread about how hard iot is to get good directions - even from state highway departments.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Relax Piff, I was just joking - I'm in Utah and have run across a few dirt highways myself and I just thought I'd open the door for a few jokes. Sorry it didn't come across that way.
The most lost people I ever saw was a jeep load of anthropologists from the University of Chicago. They looked at a map of the Yukon and saw a dotted line going off the Klondike hi-way near Dawson City to Old Crow a village above the arctic circle. They wanted to study the folks who lived there. We found them stuck in muskeg about 100 yards off the end of the, then being built, Dempster Hi-way. The dotted line on the map was a winter tote road used when the ground is frozen solid. We had an old one ton International Harvester with a winch rope that just barely reached them, lucky for them or their jeep would have still been sitting there today.
If you look at a California map, there's a state highway (130) that goes between San Jose and Interstate 5 in the central valley. The road is really there, but it's a narrow mountain road with lots of hairpin turns and some really steep dropoffs into some serious canyons.
A few times a year, some long haul trucker will try to use this "shortcut" and get himself into some major problems. The road is well posted with signs limiting the length of the trucks that can make it, but somehow these guys manage to not notice (or believe) them. Late last summer, I helped one get turned around by opening a ranchers gate on one of the few relatively straight sections of the road. It's a good thing it was summer because if it had been raining, that truck would probably still be up there. - lol
Sorry I didn't catch it. Was relaxed but thought you had missed the interjections in the thread. Don't lose your ;) thing
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I knew you were joking.; )
A person with no sense of humor about themselves, has no sense at all.
Your point being?;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Just a poke in your ribs.=0)
A person with no sense of humor about themselves, has no sense at all.
You pointy-elbowed rib-porker, you!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Did 20 miles of dirt the other day into the Hamlin Valley.
Some AH had run through it when it was wet. Left a pair of trenches for most of 20 miles.
AHs with 4 wheel drive, the world needs more of them.
Joe H
View Image
Edited 5/18/2005 1:53 am ET by JoeH
For the past month it's been hard NOT to go through things when they are wet. Not complaining, just not used to it. The resevoirs that were empty enough to start coughing up bodies just 3 short months ago are brimming over. It's so nice to have nature give us some water - even though I know that it will be squandered.
"The resevoirs that were empty enough to start coughing up bodies just 3 short months ago"now that can get one's morbid curiousity peaked
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
Yeah, Angeles National Forest is to the LA area what the East River is to the mobsters in New York -- A place where those who refuse when you make 'em an offer they can't refuse can sleep with the fishes. ;-)
-- J.S.
I got those kind of directions all the time when I was driving an 18 wheeler with a flatbed. Some GCs aren't very good at giving directions to their job sites.
My wife called me from our "Civil War house" over in Richmond, VA last night. Seem as though the Building Inspector is a bit up set over the lack of progress on the house. I have been here working on this house since Easter. If I had unlimited funds and had nothing else to do every day for the next two years I might get done what he wants done in two weeks. Never mind that we haven't gotten a permit yet. Wife is going to look into it on Monday and find out who filed a complaint. She thinks it could be somebody that wants to by the house and is trying to force us to sell.
If that isn't enough, while I was over at the shop working on my van a man pulls up and tells me he wants to rent some space. He wants to move in in two weeks. There is some work that needs to be done in the space that he want to rent. Now that means I need to be in two place at the same time and there is 250 miles between them.
I looked up and said "All right Lord you set this up which one do I do?".
DaneI will always be a beginner as I am always learning.
I had a job making custom bookshelves for this lawyer. When I arrived at the office, I had two very snooty receptionists asking what I was doing there. After explaining I had an appointment to take measurements, one asks the other to show me to the office. One lady turns to the other and says,"I hope I don't get mugged on the way." They paid a premium on that job.
Coming to you from beautiful Richmond, Va.
,"I hope I don't get mugged on the way."The "proper" answer was, you don't have to worry. Like an attorney I do all of my mugging with the bill.
"you don't have to worry. Like an attorney I do all of my mugging with the bill."
Drumroll................ would make a great tag line too.
Edited 5/11/2005 9:30 am ET by pickings
You guys had me laughing out loud.. this thread has changed my life.....
HO has a remodeling small addition job going on. Needs a closet org built and some cabs built and door hung for the b.r. ect....I give them my price.... don't here from them for a while..then I get a phone call.. he wants me to come over something about the closet org...so I come over..he complains about the closet org that the guy installed for him and some of of the work the guy did now he wants me to give him a punch list so he can give it the contractor who did the work.
I wouldnt do it..then he calls me again.. haveing problem with the contractors work and doing it to his "satisfaction" wants me to write a demand letter for him...
In the mean time he never gave me any of the work.. I was to expensive I guess
BTW the door he wanted hung and gave it to the other guy was hung real well... except he planed it on the latch side .... and he planed it alot....well he got the cheaper bidder....
I saved money on not buying any asprin....
Guy called me later on about building a gazebo..told him to call his "contractor" I dont need no more headaches....
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Ron-
At that point you should have told him that for a billing rate of $125/hour, you'd be more than happy to prepare his punchlist, draft a letter to the contractor, and re-evaluate the punchlist after the work was supposedly completed.
Ohh...and I'd send him a bill for at least two hours for time spent to date, payable on receipt, for wasting your time like he did.
Bob
I passed on a couple of jobs from this yahoo since. The way he hawked that on guy was irritating to me..... I wouldnt cut this guys lawn much less build anything for him.
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In the mean time he never gave me any of the work.. I was to expensive I guess
Maybe what you should have done was write the punch list and demand letter for him as he asked you to do, and bill him the same price for these services that you would've charged him if he had gotten YOU to do the work. That way you could've still made your money.
I thought of saying, "I was just fearing the same, myself."
A person with no sense of humor about themselves, has no sense at all.
Funny!Coming to you from beautiful Richmond, Va.
Back in the days when I was a mason contractor a GC that I did work for was building a house for himself.His wife ,Mildred,had hired a designer/ decorator to help with the critical decisions. When it came time for them to chose what type of stone I was to use on the house, they went down to the stone dealer to pick something out. They picked out a hodge-podge of 5 or 6 different colored field stones to use. 10% of this, 20% of that 35% of another etc. until they had enough to equal 100%. When it was time to do the chimney on the back of the house I had enough stone delivered of the correct percentages to do the chimney. This was a trial to see if the stone picked out was acceptable. When the chimney was finished Mildred gave me the OK to do the same on the house front. So, i had a few ton of stone delivered , of the correct proportions, to do the front of the house. As the stone work was progressing on the front Mildred stopped by a couple of times to check it out. Nothing but favorable comments from Mildred "Oh, thats so pretty" "I really like it" etc,,etc. She was there the day I finished the stone work and it was beautiful. 2 or 3 days later I went back to wash the stone down and clean up. I'm there washing down, the stones are all wet and bright and shiney, and here comes Mildred and the deorator up the walk. They stopped and looked at the stonework all bright and shiney. The decorator screamed " Mildred, this isn't what you want at all. It's got to much of this and to much of that. You can't live with this. It's got to be redone. I pointed out to them that 2 days ago it was beautiful. Today it's ugly and has to be torn down. Didn't make any difference, Mildred caved into the decorator and insisted that it be done over. I tore down the front, but not before i got the OK from the GC advising him of the extra costs invoulved. And before I rebuilt the front, I made Mildred stand there while my hired help sorted through the tons of stone, and pick out every colored stone she didn't want in the wall.
Another GC I did work for back in those days always put in a marble foyer in his houses. He would buy several different varities of broken slab marble. I think most of it came from Italy as ballast in the bottom of ships. Then it was off loaded here and sold as broken marble. When it was time to do the foyer the HO would go down to the store yard and pick out which marble to use in their foyer. This one paticular HO picked out , I don't remember exactly but I'm thinking verdi green, marble. So, I laid the foyer and down the hallway with verdi green. Next morning I go back to grout it and I find all the marble torn out and laying outside in the front yard. "Whats this all about" I asked the GC. He didn't know anything about it ,so he called the HO for an explaination. The HO told the GC that they stopped by the house to see the foyer and knew right away that a mistake had been made. The marble that I used wasn't the one they had chosen. They thought it best to take up the marble while the mortar was still fresh, then I wouldn't have to chisel it up in the morning. So the GC takes the HO back down to the store yard to find out just exactly which marble they had chosen. They point to a pile "there, that's the one we wanted". Guess what. It was the verdi green. The GC tells them that he not going to ask me to lay another marble foyer for them . They'll have to settle for a slate foyer and they did.Be not afraid of going slowly. Be afraid only of standing still. chinese proverb
"I hope I don't get mugged on the way."
The most fun would have been to ask her if she has ever heard the phrase
"hostile work environment" ?
Lawyers know exactly how much money that can be worth in court.
the HO who wanted to buy and flip a house decided it was looking so good they were moving in- upgrade upgrade upgrade, worked 22 hr days sometimes, still running the crew, trying to get it done in time. I asked for my overtime payment they said " as soon as you finish" and when i was on my last day, HO said she never wanted to see me again and i had ruined her life. The house was sold for OVER a million more than they paid -purchase and renovation- in 2 years ( east coast)- i still didnt get paid-
Thats when you put a lein on the house, BEFORE they sell it. They have to pay you, although they could move in and delay you that way. Bastards.
that was when i learner about leins- too little too late- Now its a mound of paper before i sign on-one free hour consult- every hour after that is billable ( took a while, got it now, and a good lawyer)
:)
Put that lien/judgment on the individuals and/or business not on there property that they use to own. Any property that they try to sell in the future will have that lien on it through them. That is the way the IRS does it. My sister has a lien/judgment against a guy that cut some trees for her and sold. Then didn't pay her. Any and every time he gets money it is taken from him until the debt is paid. It also makes it more difficult for them to get any loans from lending institutions in the future because it will show up on there credit history.
Also make them pay for your attorney's fees and all other expenses that you incur going after what they owe you.
You should check with the local DA and see if there are any criminal charges you can file against them. After all they did steal from you.
If these people are in business then file a complaint against them with the BBB and CofC.
By they way this is not how the rich get richer this is how the greedy fall.
Dane
DaneI will always be a beginner as I am always learning.
didnt know you could place a lein against individuals- thanks
Don't walk away from that, get a lawyer and file a lawsuit. Also, some states are very aggressive with people stiffing workers on labor; you should talk to the attorney general of your state and the labor boards, etc. If you get some government agency leaning on these people, maybe they can find their check book.
when i was on my last day, HO said she never wanted to see me again and i had ruined her life.
That is uncalled for. If you were that bad she could've fired you on the spot a lot earlier. I think we should allow litigation to sue people like that just for the sake of being able to get some kind of revenge for their rudeness.
HO calls my wife today and tells her that my price for additional work is too high, and asked if I could do better. I call the HO and itemized materials, dump fees, labor expenses, included overhead charges, etc. At the end of the call, I tell her what little profit I'll be making, and now that I look at it, maybe the I had underpriced the work. She hurryedly explained that a check would be in the mail for the initial amount.
Little old lady, couldn't get upset with her, she just didn't understand what it takes to run a business these days.
Sounds like you need to be a bit more selective who you work for. My dad once told me "When at all possible work for a nice looking lady since getting yelled at by a pretty face is easier to take than being barked at by a bulldog." After 39 years my patience is not what it used to be, fortunatully I'm in a position where I can choose who I work for so if I see something I don't like I avoid the job althogether.
OK I did have one bonehead who acused me of stealing his girlfriends washer and dryer. Seems he never noticed we moved it out of the laundry room and covered it with a blue tarp for protection while the dry wallers did their thing. The guy called up at 9 pm and ordered me to return the F'in thing. I thought it was a joke and laughed which really set him off. We pulled our tools that night and it was 5 months before I went back and finished the job, the lady was really nice and he was no longer around.
Edited 5/11/2005 9:34 pm ET by Armin a.k.a. The Laminator
"when do the real carpenters get here ?"
- said to a friend years ago....
- and now oft said by us....
Edited 5/11/2005 10:30 pm ET by toledo
Not my incident but here it goes...
Background
Working for a very high-end commercial wood flooring company; the job is a NYC landmark building. Now on jobs this size, we make floor color/finish samples on 4ft x 4ft sample boards rather than 2x2s. On the back of each is the color formula and finish.
Scene
We started staining 7,500 ft when the designer comes in and yells that the color is wrong. We go out to the truck to retrieve the sample board and lay it next to the area of the floor already stained -- perfect match since we left about two sq ft without finish. Still yells that it's the wrong color using every word to describe what's wrong except one that is normally associated with describing colors (not subtle enough, too punchy). We flip the board over showing the formula and *his* signature and date on it. Claims the board was changed.
Quick thinking on the co. owners part has him go back to the truck and return with a wax envelope filled with "tungsten-copper pigment" that will tone down the color, but leave it unchanged. He carefully pours about an 1/8 of a teaspoon of it into the stain (which is mixed in a 50 gallon garbage pail) while describing the astronomical cost of the stuff. Politely points out to the designer that having 3/4 of the floor sanded may be reflecting more light than he expected, but this will address his concerns, and be no extra charge. Stir the stain, wipe on, we have a happy designer.
After the designer leaves, I ask what was in the envelope -- cigar ashes.
I've had an HO tell me that all the garage trim I installed cracked during the night..come to find out she broke it all taking it off to see if I back-primed the trim..
Had another HO who insisted that I bring in a tile contractor instead of doing it myself because I obviously didn't know what I was doing..The bathroom floor tile was on an existing basement slab..The reason he was so upset, if you lay down on the floor and site the tile, one tile was sticking up about 1/16" above the others..by the eay, it wasn't grouted yet...
I had an HO call me back after she moved in (spec house) and said my electrician is an idiot..Apparantly, the appliance vendor came to set up the dryer and only had a 3' cord with them..didn't reach the receptacle, so he told the HO the receptacle was in the wrong place by code...
I know you are still fairly new to this, but this kills me, especially when its one of my trauma/ drama clients.
"You cant be in here for the weekend and all next week" then I get a call back on that next tuesday. "Im ready for you to come back... why cant you?", with an attitude like they were first priority because you were working there a week or a month earlier.
Kills me.
-zen
I've had the renters tell me the house was not built to code - it's 14 years old, and I know the builder (but that's another story). Anyway, who told them the house was built wrong? A licenced electrician who hit a cable above a header.
Sigh.Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR ConstructionVancouver, Canada
wow, i must say, this is an excellent thread
I do concrete forms, so for the most part we only deal with contractors, but every so often we get a job for a home owner or home owner GC, usually no big deal. However, we just finished an addition for a home owner who went above and beyond all others. First of all when the mixer shows up to pour the footings he starts to explain to our crew all the properties of concrete and finishes his statement with "the wetter, the better. It'll be stronger that way" WOW, could not be any further from the truth, not that the concrete is any weaker, it just takes longer to achieve maxium strength, and isn't any stronger at all. So we show up monday to set the forms and pour the job, (small 20x24), this job has a 2ft drop that is almost on a corner, we're almost done ready to get concrete delivered, and this guy comes running out of the house "whoa whoa whoa, what the hell is that" boss explains to him that in the plan and in the contract it states 8ft forms, and the drop will be formed with 8 ft forms as well... then the guy cant understand why it's going to be more expensive to pour a 10ft wall with stacked forms, let alone the extra concrete. Fortunatly we finshed that job today and never have to see that guy and his 10ft walls again.
>>>>"WOW, could not be any further from the truth, not that the concrete is any weaker, it just takes longer to achieve maxium strength, and isn't any stronger at all."Was this you speaking or the home owner?
Jon Blakemore
no, we didn't say anything to the homeowner, but that is what we were all thinking
> "the wetter, the better. It'll be stronger that way" WOW, could not be any further from the truth, not that the concrete is any weaker, it just takes longer to achieve maxium strength, and isn't any stronger at all.
In terms of how much water to use in the mix, for the practical range of usable mixes, it's the dryer the better. More water makes it easier to work, but reduces the ultimate strength. When I did my footing, mixing it myself, I went with a very dry mix, and got 6390 psi at 29 days. Typical mixes are more like 3000 psi.
Once the concrete is in and setting up, the slower it sets, the stronger it gets. Lightly spraying a slab with water for the first few days will help to make sure that the water in the mix stays around and contributes to the hydration reaction rather than evaporating. That may be why somebody thought that wet was good. Also, lining forms with plastic will make sure that the mix neither gains nor loses water to the soil and form material. It keeps the form lumber clean and re-usable, too.
-- J.S.
I did an office remodel that had a tin cieling. The office was for a realtor who was used to getting her way no matter what. She instructed the painter to paint the tin panels a dark blue and paint the tin crown a half shade darker blue.
The first day the painter painted everything the same blue and she knew it so she went on and on about how nice it was going to be when he painted the tin crown that half shade darker.
The painter made arraingements with her to come in at night to finish up but he never made it. The next day the woman was in her glory explaining to everyone why she picked those contrasting colors. Everyone said yeah that looks great. We let her go on for hours before we gave her the news. That finally shut the old broad up.
Maverick, that's like the old woman I did painting for who happens to be the one who told me to F.U.
She wanted a lighter shade of blue on the ceiling from the walls. I painted everything the same color. I just barely tinted the blue down with white when she told me it was enough (I hardly got any white in it at all, she was afraid too much would ruin it). I painted the ceiling. I will swear to this day it is the same color as the walls but she constantly remarks how well the ceiling turned out a lighter blue than the walls.
I know a master-painter and this is the story:
Fussy,rich woman - and this guy has all the patience. She insists that all his color samples arte a "hue" off, and that he will just not understand what she and her queer interior-designer friend want. Now if the HO goes so far as to question the expertise/ability of a fine craftsman, I thought, he´s ready to blow ...
But I learned a good lesson: Instead of arguing and a show of pride, he was very humble and low-key: "Well maybe I will have to use dry pigments."
Now he had to make samples using burnt Sienna, umbra-red ...using a pharmacists scale. It looked like a laboratorium - and I wondered how he would produce a whole production batch matching those samples. It took a full week of voodoo and drinking coffee.
BTW: He insists on painting the samples on the actual walls...saying that the light angle, texture of cardboard or anything else will falsify the judgement. Now that the customers feel happy about all that elaborate alchemy, they both decide on a sample that was made using regular ingredients (and was there all along).
Then, making sure they´re gone at the crucial moment of painting over the sample where everybody would make out an apparent difference...it was done. Sometimes it helps to appear humble and dumb...
Mathias
http://www.raulfcarpenters.com
"He insists on painting the samples on the actual walls...saying that the light angle, texture of cardboard or anything else will falsify the judgement. "
Well he's right about that, isn't he? We just painted our family room in the basement and went with a shade darker on the ceiling than the walls. After all that careful cutting in between ceiling and wall it looks like we used the same color on both. The angle of the ceiling with respect to the light source eliminated the color difference that is obvious when put side by side on the wall.
Sure he´s right. The trick is to paint over the samples...no more arguments after that, even if off.
Mathias
"Sure he´s right. The trick is to paint over the samples...no more arguments after that, even if off."
LMAO
Today a HO said, "I want more room for my stove." I installed cabinets to allow 30-1/4" for her 30" stove. This actually a skosh more room than I usually allow. I had already explained that more room just lets more stuff drop into the crevass and she approved the current configuation.
Now she wants the cabinets on that wall moved over an inch (including a sink base with carefully positioned and cut holes for the plumbing). I said if I had done anything wrong I would fix it, no questions & no charge. But I will not honor this request with out being paid for the change (and I'm not really happy about doing that).
"Based on what you charge, you make way more than I do"
Me: "I'll be glad to show you my tax returns if you will show me yours"
Bowz
"Why do you need to excavate? The other contractor drew a picture with deck blocks and the earth here is fairly firm."
This is on a 24x12 ground level deck over disturbed earth.
"I don't like it going down so deep". A 19½" excavation for her deck, could not understand 3' deep tubes, then 2x8s under 2x8 joists, then the trex. "Why does it need to be so strong?"
Uh - we are in a heavy prone to earthquake zone.Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR ConstructionVancouver, Canada
"Based on what you charge, you make way more than I do"
Another response could have been, "Would you feel more secure if I made less than you?" My accountant probably makes more than I do, and I'm ok with that.
Mike
How about.. I dunno you can afford to pay me....:>)
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home owner/builder says to me all you need to be a g.c. is a phone book and cell phone. i chuckled at his ignorance and have proceeded to tell him about everything he is doing wrong after he does it. also i am only framing and siding this one and he is in charge of having materials on site. i stopped helping him for free and have let his penalty fee rack up to almost $1000 for delays not for having material availible!
While you're here can you look at ...
Would it be much trouble to ...
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
As a trim sub, I've overheard a billion of 'em...seems the details are what most folks have the hardest time envisioning.My favorites for this kinda stuff are a doctor and his wife who I can only describe as completely utter twits. Their favorite expression, upon seeing anything new done on their house was, "if only I had known it would look like that!"Their house had a funky set of winder stairs dropping onto a wide angled landing, wrapped by an angled starting step. Whole thing was oak, skirts, risers, treads. First time they saw me working on the skirts, they freaked. Seems they thought the rough stairs were only a temporary way to get between floors.A week before, I came in as the foyer tile was being ripped out. HO wife explained that it just wasn't quite right: "like getting on a plane for Austria, and ending up in Switzerland." Dang, my family's Swiss<G>So, when homeownerette flipped over the skirts (I had dropped them rather than waterfalled, cause it fit right), I flipped back. I am a very sensitive arteest. LOL. I told her something like I was sick of hearing her blame trades people for their (the homeowner's) lack of doing their homework...she went into the kitchen and broke down into tears on the super's shoulder. Whew, I had some heavy apologizing to do all around, GC, both homeowners, I was just a sub...even said I'd waterfall the skirts, but it'd probably look like poo, and it would cost a whole bunch more.Thing is, now, whenever I see them, they can't say enough about how glad they are the skirts stayed dropped. Course, it could be cause I scare 'em<G>...or, maybe it's because they went and carpeted the damn stairs! Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Ok, I'll bite. What's a waterfall and a dropped skirt?
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
A really lucky guy in Hawaii?
I'm going to steal reinvent's description...LOLWaterfall follows the rake, dropped drops straight down...but I could have that totally bassed ackwards<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
We had a custoner give us directions to his house once. It was WAY out in the sticks. The diver heads out there, but calls back shortly and says there's a bridge on the road with a 5 ton weight limit. (He's in a semi with a 40' trailer, and weighs 4 or 5 times that much)We call the HO, and he says: "That's your problem - You said you'd deliver the trusses, and you have to get them here"
To have that sense of one's intrinsic worth... is potentially to have everything... [Joan Didion]
I have lost count by now of the number of times that I will recommend that we do it this way and they say no we would rather have you do it that way - then a year or so klater, they are calling to say, you were right, please come back and change to the way you... or we wish we had listened to you...I now use a couple of such stories to preface some decisions...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
can you enlighten us on the terms "dropped" and "waterfalled" as applied to stair skirts???
How, 'bout I just show some pics? The Dali Lama might enlighten you<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
In the "dropped" pic it looks like part is dropped and part is waterfall.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
It looks like its dropped only on the stepped landing, but follows the angle of the stringer on the straight runs.
Huck's got it, only on the winders or landings...but here's a couple I've shown before, it's dropamundo.And another couple of one just finishing up that's a bit of a hybrid...kinda go with the flow<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Sorry to point it out but your fighting human nature.
I replaced a GFI on the front porch and a day later we get a call complaining that the lights in the barn, which they claimed worked fine before, had stopped working. Later it was found out that most of the lights hadn't worked for years, his wife admitted as much after we fixed them, and the single working light bulb had simply burned out.
Related is a common event for a mechanic friend of mine. Someone rolls in convinced there is a major electrical fault in their car because both headlight stopped working. He claimed the first time this happened he spent hours testing the cars electrical system without finding any fault. Only later did he learn what the truth was.
People drive along and eventually a headlight burns out. The driver fails to notice. This may last for months without them suspecting anything. Eventually the second headlight burns out and they assume both burned out at the same time.
You work on someone's home and it is entirely natural for people to feel a bit invaded. To reconnect with he home after you leave they walk around and get reacquainted. They start looking at everything very closely. Faults that had been there for years are suddenly discovered and assumed to have been caused by the tradesmen.
If you ever loan out your car or truck there is a similar path. You kind of look closely at everything. Suddenly you notice that tiny hesitation when you hit the gas. Was that squeak always there? The steering feels different. I have to work to keep from thinking the vehicle hasn't been damaged, or at least changed, in some way. Takes a couple of days for the old feel to return.
Its just human nature. We all do it. It is to be expected from customers. Good humor and a good rapport with the HOs are a good step in avoiding the down side of this normal reaction. One or two remodelers take pains to document everything even distantly connected to the job in any way.
One uses a digital camera with a flash lavishly and goes to great pains to test and document things. Another used a video camera. During the estimate he had me check every receptacle and telephone outlet to see if they worked before construction starts. If a switch, light or receptacle doesn't work or is incorrectly wired it is documented and this is signed by the HO.
This goes a long way to dispelling the mythology that 'my house was perfect before you worked on it' and end arguments before they start. The before and after shots, with the approval of the HO of course, makes a good addition to a presentation. Of course this takes time and effort and a lot of contractors don't go to the trouble but I have noticed more seem to be doing more of it.
> convinced there is a major electrical fault in their car because both headlight stopped working.
When that happens, first place to look is the high beam/low beam switch/relay. Usually a fairly easy fix.
-- J.S.
I was shooting the breeze last week with my buddy, who's a GC, and his current client who's in the middle of $1M addition/remodel. She, the homeowner, started to talk about a friend of hers who's currently looking for a property to buy, renovate, and move into.
In her best snobby tone she said, "Their budget is only 1.4 million, that's only gonna leave them $500,000 to put into the house. I don't know what kind of upgrades they think they can get for $500,000 but I guess they'll have to learn that on their own."
I wanted to throw up on her shoes. She's just past the framing stage on the work that my buddy is doing for her. Now she has suddenly become an expert in design build and renovation work and wants to tell everyone around her what they 'need' to do to their places.
How do people like this even have friends?
<How do people like this even have friends?>
They find other people like themselves--unfortunately, not that hard.
The She HO: "You can use our bathroom but sit down when you urinate."
Me: "Why is that"
The She HO: "Because I don't like urine on the floor".
Me wondering to myself: "How will she know if I aim straight".
You've just described a female friend of my sister's who insists all men use the facilities at her house in a seated position! Are you, by any chance, located near Castroville, California?-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
No, I'm on the East Coast but tell ya what..if any Babe mentions this on Oprah we'll all be doing it their way!