Hey guys,
So when do you give in and lower your standards to compete with the rest of the competition?
We lost two jobs today and two over the past few weeks due to being priced above “the other guy”. The amount we lost one job by was by about the amount the other guy will save by hiring illegal alien workers instead of the licensed subcontractors we use and by cutting a few corners like not using pressure treated lumber or thicker plywood and not having as high quality work. We spoke to the homeonwer and they said they knew but apparently the bottom line is more important than true quality.
Yet I know I will see these folks down the road at church or in a local restaurant and they’ll bend my ear about how the job end up being more money than that guy told them and they wish they would have hired us. Literally, I’ve heard this story at least three times in the past.
So when do you decide to lower yourself to get some of those jobs? I hate to give up on quality and do things like hire the illegal workers and not carry insurance or workers comp on them but we’re losing work becuase of it.
We push our quality, our licensure, our warranty, etc. Heck, I’m even a volunteer on the local building board authority and we push that so folks will know everything will be done on the up and up but apparently they don’t care about that.
Florida is so competitive, I’m starting to feel like folks don’t want quality, they just want bottom line price. I’ve been at this for almost 20 years here and it doesn’t seem to be getting any better.
Sorry for the whining…Its just the way this Friday went it should have been a Monday! Its not Friday the 13th is it? 😉
Mike
Replies
Go on over to the tavern, first round is on me.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Never give in. I work for a company that has built up clients willing to pay. They are out there. Today I tried to explain why a project (t and m) was going to go over and the clients words were...I don't care...we trust you...you always do excellent work.
Good clients are out there. Trust me.
Chris
I don't.
ya don't....
everything works out for the better..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I'm not out there in the trenches try'n to win jobs... but I come from a background of knowing the following...
if you are try'n to compete on price you will never win...
if anything you need to raise your prices.... the top end of any market is rarely affected by economic trends... I'd much rather be known as the highest price in town and deliver the best you can get... than anything else...
how do people know you are the best... YOU TELL THEM you act like it... and you look like it... you are always polite in explaining these things and the more you point out they "they really don't need the quailty you you'll provide or do they need to spend the amount that you'll charge... the more they will insist on you doing the work...
in real numbers it cost very little percentage wise to do really good work and use better materials...
raise your prices, get alot better signs, spend a few $$ on printed material (the best you can get) and shoot for the customers who insist you do the work...
once you deliver a few times and add the extra touches that weren't called for...
you'll be able to deal with fewer customers and higher project costs and greater profits...
if you have to bid it... you've already lost
p
This is the land of Wal-Mart. If you're aiming at the general population, you have to follow their lead...price over quality is what people seem to want these days.
With a thread like this there will be people who will reply that it is not necessary to give in, and that suitable clients who will pay the extra for legitimate work exist and should be found.
If I was operating in that kind of market I would be deeply concerned, because I know a good many rich and medium rich people, and I can tell you that they would absolutley love to save money by using contractors who cut corners in various ways
Proof of this is shown in the statistics of who uses the cheap airlines that are taking over the airways of Europe. Rich people. They are happy to tolerate all kinds of poor service in order to save some money.
Most homeowners don't view their properties in the way in which an honest and conscientous contractor would. To most HO's a house is just a commodity, they are going to own it for a while and when they no longer require it they will sell it and move elsewhere. To people like that, paying one cent more than they absolutely have to is something that they just won't do. Pay extra for better materials? Why bother, as long as it lasts a few years that will be fine
How to fight these attitudes and find good paying work? Well, there's some good advice already on this thread. To that I will add that someone who is selling what HO's see as a simple service such as house painting should see if they can find something that they can add to the service so that people think that they are getting more than they will from the lowballer, and quality materials and work isn't enough. It needs to be something visible, tangible.
John
mike... as soon as i hear this is a "competitve bid" job.. i'm no longer interested..
i do offer them an out ( and a graceful way of saying "no thanks" )
i tell them we will be glad to bid their job, but we always get paid for producing a Proposal
we give great work and attention to detail, a lot of handholding.. a lot of integrity
we think our customers get great value for our price.. and no , i'm not getting rich
so.. if i try to "compete" against companies that are not operating on that level.. i lose... so i don't bother
ponytail summed it up....if you have to bid , you don't want itMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
You should never compromise quality, honesty, abiding to industry standards, compliance to building codes, and remebering your client's house is not just another job, it's someone's home.
I've seen it too many times where the lowball costs much more in the end. Poor workmanship, too many shortcuts I've caught them taking (I don't know how many I haven't caught), subs not showing up, language problem, and then the inevitable " I should've listened to you and used the middle bid."
Unfortunately, we live in such a culture that bottom line up front weighs more in decisions than the amount of favorable references.
Stay the course, keep to your principles. Sometimes the jobs you lose are the ones you were not meant to have.
The GC I do a lot of sub work for does not comprimise anymore. He did for the first 20 or so years but he's done with that. He sits with the customer and interviews them on the first meeting to see if they will be the right 'fit' for him...if they can really work together. The only mention of the job upon the first meeting is if they have a budget, because if they are budgeting $25,000 on a $125,000 job, he knows right away that they can't do it and will tell them so, and are they interested in continuing on. If so, and if he feels that they can work with him, then he pushes on.
Like the customer should do, so should the GC try to find out about the people and get any references. It's a risk in some ways on both ends and there's a lot of trust that has to be had.
When the customer starts to talk talk talk about the money first thing, that is warning sign right there. They're not interested in the job so much as they are for getting a deal on something.
When confronted once on what I make per hour, I returned the comment by asking them how much they pay their auto mechanic to keep the 2 Lexus and their teenage daughters Beemer in tip top. Needless to say I didn't get to work for them long, but I feel that I stuck to my guns and avoided a boatload of heartache. I knew the next guy who did do the bigger job for them and he later told me that they were a nightmare.
I wonder when people go to the grociery store and they get 5 bags of groceries and they go to pay do they say..."I want these 5 bags of groceries, but I am only willing to pay for 3." That's what people do to you. They want what you have to give but they don't want to pay for it. If you are fair in your pricing for what you give, then don't back down. Done deal.
I don't know what the economic situation is where you live, but if you're near by most major cities, the $$ is there. I know that that is a huge factor in what you're talking about and fortunately, living where I do, I have never had to face a real shortage of people with the dough.
Good luck man. I understand where you're coming from believe me.
Jer -
A couple of months ago I won the job when I asked about their mechanics shop rate. The customer cracked up when I pointed out that my rate was lower - and that I made house calls - lol.
Oak River Mike,
basically---you NEVER give in---and prices only move in one direction---UP
If You Never give in-----what you will find is that, over time your phone rings and a prospective customer says" hi---I got your name from my neighbor----you gave him a price on some work 3 years ago---but he went with someone else. he tells me ,in hindsight that YOU are the guy he wishes he had went with"
I know it sounds arrogant---but it is gonna happen time and time again.
you don't need MORE work
you just need enough of the RIGHT work.
Let the other guys chase volume--------you are interest in specific quality.
for perspective---let me tell you that i am in the roofing business. I can't imagine a more cost competitive business---and basically every roofing contractor is selling the same brands, the same warranty, our materials cost the same----etc. competing on price is a race to the bottom
however YOU( read I) concentrate on OTHER things besides price. show up for your appointment EXACTLY on time. Be presentable. make appointments and return phonecalls EXACTLY. Keep the job site meticulously clean. Call and let the homeowner know in advance when materials are being delivered. Let them know EXACTLY when you are going to start their project--- in short they should have no un-answered questions because you call and keep them up-to-date. don't leave ANY equipment at their home overnight.
your lower priced competitor may sell the same roof--hell , it might conceivably be a BETTER roof LOL--------but they aren't providing the same product(peace of mind) that YOU are---and that comes at a premium.
not everyone is willing to pay for that---and that's OK-----you don't need EVERY job
just ENOUGH Jobs----and there ARE enough of those like minded customers. concentrate on customers who have owned their homes for years and intend to own the same home for years more. they will have been burned in the past---and will be more likely to pay for your level of service.
Very best wishes to you,
I try not to sell on price. Everytime I meet with someone the words/phrases "value" and "this is your home" will be said by me.
People have told me that someone else can do the job for "x" amount, I tell them to go for it, but remember that this is their home. I might not choose the cheapest guy to work on my house.
I bid a porch post replacement job once, my competition came in at about my parts price. No way was I gonna bend. I have no idea how the other guy fixed the posts, but I know what I would've done.
I would never give in and lower the standards to get a job.
However, there are situations where it is prudent to offer a compromise to lower the price. The compromise would be in the quality of materials, finish, detailing, etc- but never in the amount of money I want to make on the job.
One customer asked for an Acura, so I priced it out that way. Fortunately, I also had a Honda level bid, and I still got the job, and still made what I wanted to. The customer is very happy with the work- that is all that matters.
Another customer kept shopping bids between me and another guy. The other guy kept lowering the price and adding more stuff to the job for free. I held my price for the level of work the customer wanted, and I eventually lost the job. Oh well. Other jobs came up in its place. The customer knows that I can deliver the product he wants (I have done similar work in the past for the same person), the customer has the financial ability to pay the price I quoted, yet the lure of the low bid won out. I can't wait to hear about the problems later :)
Returning phone calls and keeping the worksite clean are just as important- maybe even more so- than the price of the job. People remember that.
If you know the competition is using illegal workers and is lacking insurance, then why not make a few phone calls? Maybe the building and zoning department would like to know about substandard work....
First, I feel for you.
don't give up the ship!
One arguement on that score is that it is immoraal to lower standards. If each of us did so, then there would be nobody left to do decent work, so it would be impossible for HOs who will pay up for value to be able to find it.
I would second the comments from others, especially ponytail, jer and Hazlett.
so now, lets come up with a plan to get you some work.
first, read other threads in the business folder here on the subject. Use search for omments by Sonny Lycos and "The Process" of by Mike Smith. It is vitaly important to quit wasting time preparing bids for people who are out shopping on the bassis of price alone. When folk call me, one of the first things they say is similar to Hazletts quote or that they have heard that I am the man to go to. I reply that it is important for them to undserstand that I am NOT the cheapest ride in town and that if price is their primary cconsideration, they woulkd be better served speaking to others. If I do not feel confortable with their responcce to that, I never get to the point of first interview with them. That is a large part of my prequalifiers on the phone.
Another is who reommended me. That conversation leads to more understanding between us.
OK, so you perqualify and go to interview them. You want a sales presentation. Mine iss mostly based on a selecction of photos from previous jobs. If I were in a more competitive locale such as you describe, I would add a setion using more generic information suxch as photos gleaned from online showing things like, " the results of not using a drainage plane behind brik veneer" or "some contractrors do not use rebar in their footings" or "failure to adequately preppare surfaces for paint can result in THIS after only two years" or a few shotrs of shingles that look like they were installed by drunken sailors
Set those photos in opposition to a spread of your quality contruction practices and let them ccompare how their house MIGHT look after five years with cheap construction vs. after five years when you do the work. Maybe have a list of costs it could entail to correct or finish the work of others after things go bad. Let them make their own conclusions.
Finally, make damn sure that your own worekmanship and reputation is equal to your standards. Followup on warrantee claims to be sure people are more than satisfied.
As a matter of fact, I have found that although I have very few complaints come back, whenn I do take care of it immediately, it almost always leads to another job. I am the one who does the fixing and I am standing right there asking, "Is there anythng else, etc
They often have another job that needs doing at profit, or a neighbor/friend who is waiting or has been looking for a contractor...
surveys sshow that in remodeling, the greatest soure of new work is old customers and referalls, so tap into that lineup. Make telephone contacts asking how they feel about your past work, if there is anything that they can suggest that might have made the job go better in intrest of improving your compnay, and follow with questionss designed to elicit referals.
Good Luck
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yer livin yer tagline--thanks!
Mike Maines
See why I do my business stuff first thing in the AM? My head works nbetter then. I save the political cr@p for evvenings;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
>>OK, so you perqualify and go to interview them. You want a sales presentation. Mine iss mostly based on a selecction of photos from previous jobs. If I were in a more competitive locale such as you describe, I would add a setion using more generic information suxch as photos gleaned from online showing things like, " the results of not using a drainage plane behind brik veneer" or "some contractrors do not use rebar in their footings" or "failure to adequately preppare surfaces for paint can result in THIS after only two years" or a few shotrs of shingles that look like they were installed by drunken sailors
holy jeez, that looks like it was typed by a drunkin' sailor lol
Yeah, yeah, yeah....;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thoughts are outrunning his fingers.... :)
Mike,
Don't do it. Do not fall for the Mal-Wart taste that seems to permeate the country. You know, cheap any any price.
I know, easy for me to say, I'm not paying your bills but you have to look at you every morning. Right? You got where you did by being true to yourself and your standards.
I'm a retired guy, a consumer and I am currently having a garage/shop/studio built. One of the first things I did was ask the contractor about labor, insurance, materials. If I had to scale back a bit I did. The guys are are local, legal and insured, I'm getting the design I want and the materials I want. A few little extras had to be planned for later. The outfit I hired came with good references. They have not let me down. Very friendly , yet very professional. All parties happy. But we have realistic expectations and realize we are not building a hospital here, either.
Good luck and stay within your standards.....................bum
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...
speaking from HO perspective, we all worry bout the bottom line...and sometimes, we whine about it (oh..really?!? LOL!) but please please please DO NOT lower your standards. there ARE still HO's that will search and search to find that GC with good rep who does quality work at a fair price.
I just hired a GC to do work at my Mom's a coupla months ago (he's doing 7 different items and nearing halfway thru them all) and I can tell you he was NOT the "cheapest" by any measure. But the peace of mind I have knowing he's on top of his subs, and doing a good job on a site I cannot visit readily and inspect, makes him totally worth it.
hang in there ok?
DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
Yet I know I will see these folks down the road at church or in a local restaurant and they'll bend my ear about how the job end up being more money than that guy told them and they wish they would have hired us.
If you start thinking that you can only compete by lowering your price, YOU will become the contractor that the customer makes that above complaint about.
Hold to your pricing, but look at your marketing skills. Not just at the time of bidding, but continually as the jobs progress. You really need the referals that attention to your clients will generate.
I live in southern Michigan, and with the downturn in the auto industry, competion has been brutal the last two years. I have managed to stick to my pricing schedule, even though total job sales are down for me. I feel that with my competion low balling their prices, and the number of them going out of business or abandoning the jobs in the middle of construction, I am positioned to be the go to contractor when the dust settles and the economy rebounds.
Just do the quality of work that justifies your prices and it will come around.
Terry
The big names in here have provided such good information that it's hard to not feel a little warm and fuzzy about the power of BT when real life problems come up.
To reinforce what they've said I think back to business school and marketing 101, 102, 203, 211, 320, 340, 520, 521 and a few others. If your service is a commodity, which typically are purchased based on price, then you better be the low-cost producer to survive.
From what you've said about having better quality and legal subs, it shows that you don't want to have to compete solely on price. Call me crazy but it sounds like what you're after are clients that better fit your style of construction, not less competition on the low end of the food chain.
One of the cheapest SOBs I've considered for a client was a well known doctor. He loves dickering over prices and materials to somehow squeeze the most value out of the job. There was no doubt that he would also shop prices with as many finish carps as would listen to him and he would surely nit pick and nickel and dime the job to no end. Bad client.
Getting the word out that you are different from the bottom feeders is key. Unfortunately it also seems to be somewhat unique to each individual's personality and background.
You don't have to go to the extreame and be perceived as the most expensive or highest quality. When talking with a consulting engineering firm's CEO I asked what he thought about the quality vs. cost issue that is tossed around so freely. His comment was worth a year of college in the uncommon wisdom it provided. He said that they compete on well above average quality combined with prices and auxilary services that make them a good value.
Far too often value is left out of the equation.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Thanks for the input guys.
I like some of the ideas on promotion of our benefits but we still run into the client getting a few estimates and going with the lowest.
I know some of you mentioned you don't take part in the competitive bidding but isn't that how almost every job is developed? At least it is for us. No one has ever just called and said "build it". Even long term acquaintances have still asked for estimates to compare costs and some have gone with the other guy who may be 5-10% lower.
Mike
mike...we do 90% of our work on a fixed price bid.. we usually get paid to prepare that bid
we always bid the same markups for O&P.. we don't adjust them up or down
we may add a contingency
just by virtue of the fact that we are being paid to prepare the bid, we develop a relationship with the customer before we even sign a construction contract
so before they say " build it" we hafve already gone thru a process
the process we do not go thru is one where we knowingly bid against someone else who is not going to be bidding on the same thing
think back to any of the jobs you "competitively bid"... did your "competitors " abide by the same rules ?
did they have the same overhead as you ..?
the same quality standards?
the same experienced employees ?
lemme guess... no.....no... no... & .....no
so what was "competitive" about the bids ?... well you were all giving a PRICE to the same owner...... and that is where the similarity ended..
so.. why bother..?
you have to differentiate your company from all of those others
here'e another thought... putting a bid together for a major remodel.. the owner has the plans created by someone else.. let's say an addition including permit, foundation, hallway, bedroom & bath.... sounds like excavation, foundation, framing, electrical, plumbing, heating, insulation, drywall, trim, flooring, tile, windows, doors, roofing , painting, porta-john, clean-up, etc.
probably spend 40 hours on it.. if you don't get the job.. how do you pay for those 40 hours ?... ... if you charged $1200 to prepare that Proposal... your time would have been paid for... but ALSO.. they would have already made an investment in your company... will they sign the contract ? or will they kiss the $1200 goodbye..
so .. should you spend a lot of fruitless time chasing "competitve bids " or devote your time to a few jobs where the owner was more concerned with getting a good job at a good price ?
it's hard to do.. i admit it... but losing 200 hours a year on jobs you never had a chance at getting anyways ?.. that's harder
if you are a specialty contractor ( elec, plumbing, framer, sider, roofer.. ) you can estimate a job and give a proposal in a much shorter time.. you can build in your estimating time into your overhead
but as a GC remodeler or builder.. i find it very hard to build that estimating time into "competitive bids".. i need a way to separate the wheat from the chaff... getting paid for proposals does that
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,You have been one of the strongest disciples of getting paid for proposals. My question for you, and you certainly are under no obligation to answer if this is prying too much, is this:When you spend the 40-100 hours on a proposal, if you do the job, how accuracte is your estimate compared to the actual job costs?The reason I ask is I'm always torn between investing those few extra hours to do things like getting firm bids from my subs for a job that we may or may not get. I think a balance is in order. For instance, I can usually guesstimate, using logic and historical pricing, within 10% what a sub's charges will be. Of course, our planned profit margin is around there, so I really would not be happy if I was always 10% too low because that would mean the company would starve. Fortunately, I find that I'm high almost as often as I'm low so it tends to even out on a job.What I do right now when I have a prospective client come to me with an idea (no plans) for an addition is present them with my version of an SCA. The client gets a front elevation & floor plan, and full Proposal. I do use allotments for some of the items including flooring, plumbing, electrical, and cabinetry. There certainly are some downsides as to not going all out and specifying everything. The one thing that I always have to keep in mind is that my goal is to achieve and maintain a healthy profit margin.I'm always fighting against my nature, which is borderline OCD with keeping certain things in order. My financials are almost always in perfect shape, because I just can't bear to leave a pile of paper waiting for me. The struggle is that that activity, while essential to a healthy business, doesn't really generate any profit. Selling and managing jobs is what moves us forward. I could break the entire job down in to the most granular level, have hard quotes for every item that we would need, and produce a set of construction documents that are 99.9% accurate. That is the kind of thing that I would love to be able to do. The problem is that my business partner is a pretty effective manager, and can flush out the critical issues even if the Proposal and drawings are not perfect. In order to keep the work coming in, I have to rely on him to do his job (not that there's any problem with that- he does very well), and I have to do my part in hittin the high points of the design, Proposal, and estimate.I guess the point of my long rambling post, is I'm trying to figure the return on the investment of the many hours it takes to do a solid proposal and I'm hoping to benefit from your point of view. Somewhere along the line you can "waste" time on the prep work, even if you know you are going to get the job. Finding that point is what I'm working on.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
john.... your profit goal sounds low if you are doing remodeling... too easy to wind up in the red
as you know from this board.... my theory of remodeling is it is similar to the fog of war
you need a plan to start, but the plan is just a roadmap.. so many things will crop up in the progress of the job that you will have to determine on site..
you need flexibility to make those determinations... ( or i need flexibility)...
since we want a happy customer at the end of the job.... i want it to be fairly obvious when a change of scope occurs that the customer is going to recognize " this is a change of scope" or "this is a hidden condition" .. and then a Change Order gets executedc, without the loss of good will
if i figure the job too tight, the flexibility doesn't exist..
i want the ability to absorb the minor variances without disturbing the customer..
to me,this means my Overhead & Profit have to be high enough to allow for us to do business as we are accustomed to.. not the way some estimating book says
anyways.. i approach the job with the attitude of a can-do optimist.. but i approach the estimate with the attitude of a cynical pessimist...
once we have the job, we'll get it done
i think your operation may have more management than mine.. i'm the designer, salesman, supt., estimator, carpenter, etc...... a lot of my estimating is from memory
my records are not good enough to say... ok.. we had 1300 sf of siding on that job and it took 100 man hours.. so our production rate was 13 sf/hr
it wouldn't make any difference.. the next job might yield 39 sf / hr
there is just too much variation from one job to the next for me to put a lot of faith in our unit numbers
i prefer to build the jobs in my head in phases , with our crew .. so that's how i estimate.. and then i allow for slippage from phase to phase.and from sub to sub
i rely on my subs to quote their work... and i seldom get any changes from them.. usually if i do, it's because i didn't give them the proper parameters in my RFQ
( i left something out ) so they didn't include something in their price
hidden conditions mean Change Orders, so that's not a problem.. it's the obvious things that i should have seen that present problems
anyways.. my estimates that i use to price our Proposal are pretty detailed, but not neccessarily accurate, because things don't go the way i envsioned them
and i don't really want to spend the time doing an Actual to Estimate comparison.. when i had a set-up like you ( two in the office ) we did that.. but this one -man-band that i run now .. i just don't have the energy to do it
wanna move to RI and take over my operation ?
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 12/1/2006 11:44 pm ET by MikeSmith
Mike,
First off, thanks. I value yours and alot of the other guys input.
I totally agree with you on your experience and view as I HATE working for free. We use the same format for each estimate running our items through Excel.
We just haven't found anyone that will pay for an estimate as 99% of the guys around here will do one for free. We got a call recently for a custom 5k sq ft home and the guy expects a full-blown estimate "pro bono". Now its easy to say we don't want to do that and we don't want to work for him but then you automatically kiss the potential job goodbye.
I guess there are now easy answers...just alot of questions.
Mike
Mike
I agree with the forementioned "don't give in on price". Let me offer this approach in understanding this philosophy.
To me, the perfect customer wants the following:
1. Quality work
2. Dependability, reliability and integrity
3. Responsiveness to their needs
4. A reasonable price (read: not excessive)
Focus on these. Put yourself in the shoes of the customer you want. What do they perceive? What do they value in you? What do they expect when you show up to talk to them? Do they fully understand you?
And from one who provides financial planning services to clients, I can tell you from my experience, you don't ever want a customer whose primary concern is price. The best customers expect quality and like a dog smells fear, will know when they're talking to someone who'll provide it.
And by building a customer base composed of these kinds of people, over time, you'll have all the work you can handle...but this does take time and the willingness to shrug and let the low-bids go somewhere else...and as you're experiencing, it can be tough.
And don't ever forget the phrase..."Our contractor isn't cheap, but boy is he good!". The referrals you get from this kind of satisfaction will be the kind of customers you want.
BruceM
Mike,
Aren't you in Florida?
My father holds a Florida Contractors License and I remember that it was not easy to get. That was maybe 1979.
In 1976 when we moved there, he couldn't even start his own framing crew until he got a subcontractors license. And, since he hadn't done work in the area before, he had to get a bunch of Notarized letters from people he had done work for up north along with getting Licensed contractors to sign for him.
I remember it being fairly well regulated back then. Has it changed that much?
Heck in 1979 when he got his license I bet he got 100 calls a week from people who wanted to offer him a job........................so long as he let them pull permits under his license.
Hey guys,
Thank you very much for your input and knowledge. It helps ALOT!
I know we're doing the right thing by staying the course and trying to be the kind of person we would want to work in our own homes if we were in a different business. Just having a bit of trouble keeing positive when you get hit with a few of these in a short time. One a month or so is normal and doesn't ever bother me but a handful of them at once hurts.
But yeah, why give in as it'll just make it worse in the end.
And I really like some of your ideas which I will definitely put to use.
Thanks again folks...I've said it before and I will again. Been coming here for years and its always worth it.
Mike
we got this contractor in town, people fight over him, he is the highest in the area, but alway will come in on budget and on time, if he needs help he will hire extra guy, but his price is close to triple of others
so your question: when do you give in, NEVER in fact double your prices. Its all reputation. one window $100 two windows $350 what a bargin.
Talked to a lady today. who thinks if a guy is higher than the other guy he must be a crook.
"...they'll bend my ear about how the job end up being more money than that guy told them and they wish they would have hired us. Literally, I've heard this story at least three times in the past."
Can you get those people to let you put their stories in writing? Could make a good FUD piece for you to show to prospective customers.
BruceT
Mike lots of good advice here. Have you thought about using this as a advertisement. Using American/ Legal Labor? Im sure there are lots of folks that dont really understand the business and how some contractors (most here in SoCal) use illegal labor to increase their profit margins. For example: I go to a small Mom and Pop shop for my auto repair. They are more expensive then most and as expensive as the dealer. Why? because of service. They dont hit me up with having to change my break fluid or needing a bunch of needless repairs everytime I briong my truck in to get serviced. they even told me I dont need the repair. I brought my truck in for a oil change and tune up. They told me it doesnt need a tune up yet.
I only allow them to touch my vehicles even if I have to take off work to get it to them.
You can o the same thing in the home remodeling business. But like I said most people dont know the difference.
Stay the course but use it to your advantage. If there is some way you could get a hold of Sonny Lykos like was mentioned earlier he has helped some others here to get started and making a profit. Try to get his email address and get a hopld of him. Very knowledgeable guy and he loves to help people.
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Mike,
As a homeowner I can only relate a recent experience I had with a landscaping job we just had done. The first guy had landscaped the side of our house and done a good job, but was always difficult to get in touch with and schedule appointments with. When he did come, he would ask us what we wanted instead of suggesting a landscape plan or providing a list of plants that he'd found worked very well in South Florida.
The second guy lived in my neighborhood, was a bit loud and boisterous, but pointed out the quality work he'd done in the neighborhood, the quality of his plant/tree vendors, and mentioned he'd do us right because he lived in my neighborhood and wanted to make sure I was happy so he could get referrals from me. He also was not shy in telling the plants he would/wouldn't use and why.
He was a bit more expensive at first glance, and I was leaning towards the other guy, but he offered to personally take us to the tree farms and nurseries so we could select the exact trees, plants and large landscape rocks ourselves. He did this 3 different times. We were sold. That extra bit of service make the difference. He spend 3-4 hours with us on a Saturday afternoon and it turned into a $9500 job and several referrals for him.
Good Luck.
Terry