Hello All,
Okay so the exterior stairway that I had built by the foundation contractors that y’all gave me grief about earlier need some work. The GC and I came to an agreement on the stairjob. I paid for the materials only and I will fix the stairs myself.
Today I thought that I was just going to do a quick prime but now I’ve noticed some things that I think need attention.
- They didn’t use hangers or nails rated for ACQ for any of it. It not exactly exposed to the weather but I can’t imagine that the hangers are going to stay dry.
- The stair treads appear to be only glued to the stringers? I don’t know if this is a good idea but I do know that several of the treads are not in contact with the stringers now where either the glue didn’t hold or the treads were never in contact with the stringer to give the glue a chance? Should I chisel out the hardened glue and put in shims and then screw down from the top?
- Not sure about the stringer attachment. Should I use some sort of hanger where it attaches to the ‘header’?
Here’s some pics to illustrate what I am talking about.
Here’s the gap between the treads and the stringers.’
Here’s a side shot showing several gaps.
Here’s the stringers where I am not sure about the top attachments.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks,
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 2/9/2008 3:42 pm by madmadscientist
Edited 2/9/2008 3:42 pm by madmadscientist
Edited 2/9/2008 3:43 pm by madmadscientist
Replies
>>They didn't use hangers or nails rated for ACQ.....
Probably because they didn't use any ACQ-treated wood. Or if they did, I don't see it.
>>The stair treads appear to be only glued to the stringers....
If this is an exterior (exposed) staircase, and glue is the primary bond, then there's some trouble a-brewin. And, if this is exterior (exposed), and they didn't use treated wood, there's even more.
But I did notice in the second picture, that is looks like there are fasteners coming through the face of the tread, into the stringer. And I also noticed in the third pic that this stair appears to be covered at least somewhat.
>>Not sure about the stringer attachment........
Me either -- the pics don't show it.
>> Should I use some sort of hanger where it attaches to the 'header'?.......
Hey, have at it if you want -- looks to me like you'll need to either remove the top tread and riser, or use very big screws and a tiny little offset screwdriver. Good luck.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
Hello and thanks for replying,
Probably because they didn't use any ACQ-treated wood. Or if they did, I don't see it.
Don't know what the treated wood looks like out your way but here in the SF Bay area its brown in color-if you look closely you can see the incise marks from the pressure treatment. So yes all the framing lumber he used is treated. The stringers are 3by12's.
If this is an exterior (exposed) staircase, and glue is the primary bond, then there's some trouble a-brewin. And, if this is exterior (exposed), and they didn't use treated wood, there's even more.
But I did notice in the second picture, that is looks like there are fasteners coming through the face of the tread, into the stringer. And I also noticed in the third pic that this stair appears to be covered at least somewhat.
It is an exterior exposed staircase on the North side of the house. Hardly gets any sun and is partly protected from the weather. The treads are clear vert grain doug fir the risers are some sort of wood-plastic composite.
Sorry about the stringer pics I looked closer and the middle stringer is attached to the header with 3 toe nails. The two side stringers do not appear to be attached to the header at the top at all. They are screwed to the framing in three places. There are three finish nails in each tread that don't appear to be doing squat to hold it down.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I'd just screw the treads down with some stainless screws. I dont see anything that looks like ACQ lumber there, could be wrong. I think the attachment at the top could be better, but might be OK, assuming the beam that the stringers are attached to is very solidly attached. If you can jump up and down on the stairs and they are rock solid, I'd not be worried about the beam. On the other hand, what kind of wood are the treads supposed to be? Looks pretty white, might not be right. If they are ACQ, they won't stay flat anyway.
Looks like acq sill only.
Looks like acq sill only.
You guys are killing me. The camera that I am using is not high quality but trust me all the framing is treated. Around here this is how it looks. Its brown and if you look really closely you can see the incise marks. I'll try to take better pictures of it.
What's the treated wood look like out your way?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Our treated wood is a sick green color here. I'd see about getting some brackets welded to secure the stringers to the beam. Get stainless steel.
"What's the treated wood look like out your way?"
It looks like this:
View Image
LMAO...yup dat's it.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
The header appears to be pretty solidly attached to the house framing. The treads are clear vert grain doug fir. The framing is all treated wood that's how it all looks out this way-brown with incise marks from the pressure treatment.
The center stringer is attached to the header with three toe nails the two side stringers do not appear to be attached to the header but they are attached to the framing in three places with big screws. I think that the stringers should be attached to the header also.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
"I paid for the materials only and I will fix the stairs myself."
Hmmmmm? It seems like the GC got a very good solution!
Add a heavy bead of glue. Nail the parts that aren't nailed. Replace the fasteners with the proper fasteners in the hangers.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Yea well I didn't want the hack back trying to fix it and I know that if I do it with y'alls advice it'll get done right!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Okay here is some better pics
Here's a picture that shows that the wood is pressure treated
View Image
Here's the 'attachment' method for the side stringers. Three strucural screws and no attachment to the header
View Image
Here's the header-Its on top of a 2by and sandwhiched inbetween to other 2by's
View Image
Look at all those incise marks!!! That's a lot of treated wood!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 2/9/2008 9:54 pm by madmadscientist
Edited 2/9/2008 9:54 pm by madmadscientist
Edited 2/9/2008 9:55 pm by madmadscientist
Treated yes, but not necessarily ACQ, which makes it green coloured from the copper. There are other treatments.
From what I saw the base sill of this set is firmly anchored in conmcrete - some mud oozing up thru, so those stairs are not going to slide down. A few good structural screws through from back of the ledger into the stringers is all you need.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
We actually have both green & brown PT here on the left coast. I believe they are both ACQ; I checked the tag the last time I was at the borg and I'm pretty sure that's what it said.
Looks like the nails and screws are HDG. Not stainless, but in a dry location like that I'm thinging the risk of corrosion is reduced. I've haven't had any issues with those nails in my retaining wall - full exposure and built with 0.40pcf ACQ 5 yrs ago. I'd be willing to bet his is 0.20 or 0.25pcf; does the lower concentration reduce corrosion risk?
Yes, I was thinking also about that western thing where it is necessary to incise the wood to get the treatment top penetrate very far anyways so there may not be as much chemical there where the nails are.
Really, other than the gaps in the way treads fitted to the stringers, I didn't see it as too terrrible
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Those treads are beautiful! Add some angle iron brackets at top if you're worried. HEAVY iron, so it won't rust through. Or leave it as be.
Looks to me like the biggest problem is the gap between the tread and the stringer, focus your energy on this. The best way to fix that problem is from below since you have the access, heavy angle iron or galvanized predrilled angle with screws would be the best bet. Could also squeeze some construction adhesive in there.
The attachment of the left and right stingers at multiple midpoints is a much better idea than just to the header because you are picking up the load throughout the span. Go ahead and put some toenails up top or screw through the back of the header with the same structural screws if it helps you to sleep. Only improvement would be two screws per stud.Route a squirrel
Thanks for the reply,
We basically did that with the treads. I'll use a couple of LS50's in stainless with stainless nails on the two outside stringer connections cause it will help me sleep better at night.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
For glue, I would try to squeeze in PL Premium. It is bullet proof. You could also try and put in some glue blocks. You could glue and screw one side to the stringer and pocket screw and glue the other side to the tread. I would avoid any face mounted fasteners, eventually water will get in there. Before you prime, use Smith's epoxy sealer. Most Bay Area paint stores and lumber yards carry it. You can also buy direct in Richmond (the good part). Kind of. They should have put it on the end grain of those treads, so I would try to flood it down any gap if that's possible. All of the Acq I have installed is a nasty green color and made from Doug Fir, not hem fir. Maybe it's changed.JohnMight be as little late, and you may have done this, but I would make sure the treads are pitched properly so water doesn't pool against the riser. Hope they were covered during all the recent rains.
Edited 2/11/2008 7:44 pm ET by JohnCujie
Might be my bad old eyes.... but I think you are also missing a stringer or 2.
Edited 2/9/2008 7:02 pm ET by sledgehammer
Might be my bad old eyes.... but I think you are also missing a stringer or 2.
How do you mean? There is 3 3by12" stringers there?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer