*
My framing sub. has left me with a 15 tread staircase which has treads 1/2″ out of level on the width and 7/16″ out of level on the depth of the treads (leaning downward from riser to nose) The county inspector at this point is hesitant to fail the stairs because he has no code specification addressing these tolerances. Technically the stairs could potentially be failed as they exceed the 3/8″ max. variance on the first riser, yet that spec. is not normally applied to a variance within a single riser off a level floor. Is there a body of written standards which might address the finer points of advisable code or commonly accepted standards of the framing trade? Perhaps I have overlooked something in UBC or AIA.
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Listeners write in about haunted pipes and building-science tomes, and they ask questions about roof venting and roof leaks.
Featured Video
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
*
Code or no, this is unacceptable.
Ae the floors at the top and bottom of the stairs level? If so(and regardless really) withhold part of the money due him (enough to pay someone else) and tell him to do it right.
Have you determined if the rise is correct? Did he use a framing square to lay out his treads, cut the first one and use it for a pattern for the other two?
*Joe...Your building official is an ass.He need written backing to define what common sense dictates as unsafe?In this situation his opinion shouldn't even matter, because being the standup kind of guy that you are, you've already failed these stairs and you won't pass this kind garbage on to the customer.Yank the stairs, send them of to the carnival to use in their funhouse, and hire a carpenter to finish the job. What did your "framing sub" do? Cut green stringers, let them dry/shrink, then "custom fit" the treads and risers to the out-of-whack, shrunken stringers?If you neglect your responsibility and pass this on to the customer, get a lawyer to initiate the prep work, as you'll want to start hiding your assets for the eventual lawsuit.
*Joe, hopefully you already know the answer. Interesting, you don't mention any difference in the riser of each step. They can't be the same, are they? Technically speaking, it may be possible for you to pass these and collect your money. Then it would only be a question of when, not if, they come to take all your money. See you in court or suck it up and get someone to correct it now, your choice. If you leave these you are right on track for a major lawsuit which results from the serious slip/fall accident someone will have. Hopefully, they don't break their neck. I seem to recall an OSHA Safety Officer telling me that stairs cause the most accidents in the home. Dude, I implore you to make them right.BTW: "built to code" don't mean a thing when it's obviously a serious hazard. Take lots of "before" pictures, perhaps hire an independant party as a witness so you'll be prepared for the fight with the hack framer. To answer your question I'd need to hunt for the lit I have regarding stairs. Probably someone will have the stuff more available.
*Joe,
View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*Are these interior or exterior stairs? Sounds like their setup for run off, albeit a little extreem.
*Joe - are you the homeowner, or a builder, or what? The normal response to work like that on any job I've ever been on would be "What the hell is that?" Followed by somebody gettin' "sent down the road mumbling to themself". Now if this work was done by a well meaning, hardworking helper who was simply over his head, I might have him/her help me rebuild the stairs. But if this is something someone put their name on, as a professional job, I'd be gettin' them off the job as quick as I could.
*Not knowing all the details I will tell you what I do. When the job sup. tells me the job has passed "his" inspection then and only then does the sub get paid. The subs know they will get prompt payment and they appreciate that but they also know that if something is not to our liking, on a reasonable level, then they get nothing until the problem has been remedied. It is an even trade, we want quality work and they want to get paid.Sylvia
*
"He left me"
"He
b left
me"
We all understand what left means.
Question is, Did he left before he got paid or did he get paid before his work got inspected.
Either way, it seems the stairs need rebuilt.
*
joe fusco: i think jim was referring to the author, whose name is also joe. the order of the posts might have been what made you think he was talking to you.
i don't like the format either. Rich.
*Rich,
View Image © 1999-2000
*hey, joe, how come your post displays like that ?(with the copyright symbol ?)
*Are you asking how to do "special characters", Mike?If not, sorry for the intrusion...
*Joe, your question creates a laundry list of questions.Are the stairs framed over unlevel concrete slab?Did he figure the rise and run correctly?I suspect that possibly the floor framing is unlevel and the entire set of stairs would become level if the sides were level.I've seen more than a few unlevel due to poor math. The carpenters then "adjust" the stairs by tilting them out of level. In fact, I got into a face to face with my first emplyer who wanted me to tilt a set of milled stairs. I simply refused and told hem to get one of his "yes men" to set them. If he wanted me to set them, he'd have to send them back and get the right risers sent out.Post a picture please.blue
*That's incredible! Get a new framer. Or, maybe you got what you paid for.
*Yeah, Joe Fusco, I meant the original poster. Hell, I know you wouldn't stand for that kind of work. It's one thing to make a mistake that creates something like that. It's another thing all together to walk away from it.
*I agree with Mongo. Your building inspector is an ass. Lets see... the treads tilt from back to front, and at the same time, from side to side. I'd say thats a potential trip/fall hazard! Yank the steps, yank the framer, and too bad you can't yank the inspector too!If you already paid the framer for the work, then "shame on you." But if you don't yank out and rebuild the steps again, then its really "Shame On You!"Davo.
*Hey jim,
Regards, View Image © 1999-2000
*
Code requirements generally specify only rise and run and variances in riser height for straight run stairs. Other requirements are necessary for winders and circular stairs. I think the assumption is made that the carpenter who does the work will compensate for uneven floors.
It sounds like an inexperienced or incompetent carpenter framed the stairs in question. I have met many carpenters who could frame complex roofs or do unusual work with no hesitation. Yet they were hesitant to do stair building as if there were some magical secret to it.
I would bet that the carpenter who did the work did not check the floors for level in the appropriate places and therefore failed to compensate for irregularities.
Regardless, the work was not done properly and should be done over at his own expense.
*
My framing sub. has left me with a 15 tread staircase which has treads 1/2" out of level on the width and 7/16" out of level on the depth of the treads (leaning downward from riser to nose) The county inspector at this point is hesitant to fail the stairs because he has no code specification addressing these tolerances. Technically the stairs could potentially be failed as they exceed the 3/8" max. variance on the first riser, yet that spec. is not normally applied to a variance within a single riser off a level floor. Is there a body of written standards which might address the finer points of advisable code or commonly accepted standards of the framing trade? Perhaps I have overlooked something in UBC or AIA.
*
Any one who calls himself a carpenter should be able to measure and cut stringers long before he learned to frame even a simple roof.