I’m exploring the need for the availability of small batches of concrete(1-? yards) for contractors and homeowners. There are many times when I need just a few yards for some deck piers, fences or stairs or garage aprons or something. All the local concrete suppliers charge minimum load fees and they’re not small fees either.
I would also have the ability due to smaller equipment to get places that a regular 8 yd. truck couldn’t get. I live in the mountains of NC and I believe it would come in handy. It would eliminate the need/cost for a concrete pump on difficult sites just to pour a few yards.
Would y’all have a use for such a service or is it just as easy to rent/own a small mixer and buy 80# bags of pre-mix and mix it yourself. The problem I find is that one of those 80# pound bags makes so little concrete it would hardly seem worth the effort if I could have it delivered and placed with a phone call.
Thanks for your feedback.
Replies
Small batches might appeal to weekend DIYers, too. My son has a 1 yard tow behind mixer, it's nice when we need it.
I can also get a 7 yd truck, fits in some of the tighter places, a smaller option might real handy.
How small are you looking at?
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
we have a guy here in town with atruck that mixes on site,whatever you need.works 7 days a week,about 14 hour days and you need to call 3-4 days ahead of time. thats in a city of 350k.larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Twenty years ago there was an outfit around here that had batch trucks. The truck had hoppers for sand, gravel, and cement, they would pull onto a job and mix just the amount you needed. It was popular until the old guy that owned it retired.
I don't know if anyone still makes a truck like that.
A guy down the street from me bought a mini cement mixing truck because he got screwed years ago on a small load. It sits in his driveway most days. If you want his name I can get it for you ... he may want to sell the rig.
I think there's demand for site mix deliveries, and not just small loads. A guy here had a rig but he was a really poor businessman and got run out. Ultimately I think people will do business with you largely based on how you handle yourself, so if you do a great job delivering small batches you'll also get larger orders.
I've heard there are QC problems using those rigs. All the materials are mixed by an auger going down a short chute. Not the same as a couple hundred revolutions in a barrel on the way to the job.
Well even 1 yard isn't a "small pour" if you're mixing it by hand. That's what, 54 60 lb bags? Just getting them from the truck around front of the house is a job.
Short load fees look pretty reasonable compared to labor cost of two carpenters tranporting and mixing and cleaning up 54 freakin bags of redi mix. Plus, by the time you mix the 30th, the first is pretty well set up.
I'm with David, I trust the quality of mud from the plant a lot better than what we mix onsite. We do it sometimes, but it's an expensive way to operate.
Sorry but if you are talking about a small truck that is didecated to delivering small amounts of concrete I don't think it would be a succesful business venture. For a hundred or 2 per job you would need to be doing 3 to 5 jobs a day just to pay for expences and put some food on the table. If it were some kind of trailer mounted unit that might work... Still, I don't know what business you are in but I don't know anyone who really "goes after" the 1 or 2 hundred dollar (or less) jobs.
You wanted the truth... right?
Edited 6/21/2008 9:48 am ET by Matt
I haven't done more than put about 15 minutes worth of thought into this so far. I'm getting both optimistic and pessimistic repsonses which is great. 2 things I know, so far I've seen a 2 yd. tow behind mixer that might serve the purpose although it would be easier to get into the tightest/inaccessible places with a truck mounted mixer on like a 1 ton or slightly larger dually truck with 4 wheel drive. I imagine a 2-4 yard mixer would be the max. available/practical for this kind of platform.
Obviously I would have to get more training than I have on concrete mixing for different applications but what difference does it make if it goes through a hundred revolutions on the way to the job or gets properly mixed on site and poured right away? When it's mixed it's mixed, right?
The reason I thought this might be viable is because of the 54 60# bags it takes to make a yard(I usually use 80#'rs). I believe you can buy larger bags of pre-mix directly from Quickcrete and probably some others. I believe you'd have to have a skid steer on-site to load materials and possibly transport wet concrete to the most unreachable places anyway so you could save a lot of back breaking work with it during the mixing process as well. Whether it was pre-mix or individual ingredients I believe it could be done with less labor than the 2 carpenters 54 bags and then getting it to wherever they need it. Remember I live in a place where mixing and placing could be on entirely different parts of the site hence the need for the skid steer(with tracks of course) to make it more efficient.
I also haven't done my homework to see if the economics of this would work. I realize it would be jobs of a couple hundred dollars a piece but I would plan to use home brewed bio-diesel to fuel everything and that would save some serious overhead. If I could put $1-2 k in my pocket at the end of the week and all I had to do was show up, mix concrete and place it I could add ten years to my life that is currently being taken away from me by the stress involved in being a GC and babysitting all the details that seem to barely go right most of the time anyway.
This could be a pipe dream but I appreciate the feedback and aren't pipe dreams part of what being an entre-manure is all about.
One correction, I thought Quikrete sold larger bags of pre-mix concret but it turns out they have 3000 lb super sacks of stucco and mortar mix but no concrete mix. It looks like it would have to be individual ingredients unless somebody knows of a source for larger than 80# bags of pre-mix.
It wouldn't be too difficult to carry individual ingredients in hoppers on the trailer/truck with the skid steer or something. Enough for maybe 1/2 days work or something with a re-load at lunch time.
How do redi-mix plants get their dry cement? I assume they store it uncontained in a weather protected structure of some sort. Brought in on dump trucks/trailers?
I don't quite understand your question. Are you talking about what is known around here as a "batch-mix truck" where there's a hopper of sand, gravel, cement and water all on the same truck which gets mixed up as needed or are you talking about towing a mixer to the site and charging the mixer by hand and pouring.
If it's the former, a guy has one around here. I'm sure the truck is very pricey but he works seven days a week.
If it's the later, it sounds like back breaking work to me.
One of our big batch plants around here has one and one and a qaurter yard buggies that you can haul. You need at least a 3/4 ton truck or they won't give them to you. Maybe your supplier could get some orr you could buy one?
"Batch Mix" trucks are used around here quite often in the larger urban areas. My understanding when I researched using one was that it was a successful business.
Very competitive pricing to small load charges from a plant.
See, we don't have the so called "batch mix trucks" y'all are referring to. I've never seen one of these either owned by an individual or one of the local readi-mix plants. That's what I'm talking about. If anyone has information on a brand/manufacturer, internet link, etc. I would appreciate it. I've done a couple of searches for batch mix trucks, etc. and can't seem to come up with anything.
The company who has done my concrete pumping and finishing have done a couple of small 2-3 yard slabs and have never mentioned a "batch mix truck". He's worked with both of the local readi-mix plants and would have told me if such a thing was available.
One plant charges $100 plus dollars for anything under 5yds even if the job is just down the road from the plant. The other charges $75 for anything under 7 yards. Not a ton of money compared to mixing a thousand bags of pre-mix by hand to yield like 3 yards. But, I'm also trying to find a way to get small amounts of concrete into tight places that an 8 yd. truck(smallest available around here) can't go without having to pay for a pump.
There was an outfit here which owned two or three small transit-mix trucks; 3 or 4 yard capacity IIRC. He charged a flat $25 for delivery (plus the 'crete charges) as opposed to the $125 the plant with the 10-yard trucks charged until you ordered over 6 yards. Nice guy; very friendly and easy to deal with unlike the 'big boys' from Demix. He did a very good business with smaller contractors and remod guys for that reason.
You also asked about cement. This same guy had his own cement and aggregate silos, which seems a pretty sizeable investment for an indy but his main business was road & sidewalk construction for small municipalities so I guess he made it pay. Anyway, he retired happy.
Big cement plants will set up on a river if the geography of the area permits that, so they can bring the cement in by barge or ship. If that's not an option (like it isn't up here) they bring it in in 18-wheel hopper trailers. Those are the trucks you see with four or six conical 'teats' under the tank body. Sand and aggregate comes in by 18-wheel dumpers but it has to be silo'ed or sheltered to control humidity.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
There is a company here called The Concrete Company which has at least one of the "mix-on-site" trucks which carries dry ingredients and mixes exactly what is needed on site. They advertise a 1 yard minimum --- but I am pretty sure that translates to "if ya' only need 1/2 yard, that's what we will mix, BUT, ya' still get charged for a yard."
They have been around for years and I have used them on several occasions.
Seeing as how you are in North Carolina, I do not think they would consider you to be a competitive threat and would probably talk to you regarding truck manufacturers, costs, etc. Phone at 302-652-1101.
Good luck,
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
I used a small batch mix on site truck and it worked great. As soon as his prices went up I quit using him just as quick.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Around Cincinnati ware I live there is one company that specializes in small batch loads. This is not their full time business. Additionally one larger company that does ready mix only maybe 200 regular trucks has one small truck that takes a bomb to get them to use it.
I'm not an expert in the concrete industry but am more interested than many coming from a family that ran a concrete business for 46 yrs before selling in 1994. I think the two problems are the startup capital that is needed as a cement silo is the only logical way to store the cement (lifting 5 or more 94 lb bags per yard would be a lot of handling although there is a guy around here that is starting out now and does use bagged cement) and the cement manufacturers may not want to deliver to a customer that couldn't take a full semi load at a time so a good sized silo may be required. Some plants around here go on allocation from time to time and the little guy doesn't rank too high when supply is tight. My dad appreciated some cement salesmen that made sure he got cement in the 70's and 80's during a couple of tight periods even though they were a very small potato.
Secondly, as mentioned by others it isn't too attractive to do a bunch of $100-$300 jobs since a fewer number of $1000 jobs would take about the same amount of effort. Also, many of your customers would be high maintenance, ill prepared, cheapa$$ homeowners.
Peterman Concrete in Portage, MI started in the 80's with site mixed concrete trucks but changed to transit mixed soon after. They now have three plants in Michigan. Google them for a phone number and they may tell you their experience with site mixing. I have seen ads for Isuzu or Hino type cab overs with a 3 yd mixer on them which would cut your truck cost down and improve slightly the fuel cost. Get ahold of a copy of "Concrete Producer" magazine (might be a Hanley-Woods rag, can't remember for sure) and look at the used trucks in the classified section.
If I was infinitely wealthy your idea is one way I would love to blow my fortune on but I'm not so I don't have to spend much time thinking about it (yet).
GregT
I ran across a place west of San Antonio that had a small truck, probably 4 or 5 yards. No, I think it was 3 cuz the minimum order from the big guys was 3, so he didn't compete with them. Anyway, he did a steady business.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Ever since DW bought me a ceement mixer as a wedding present 29 years ago, I haven't needed the service.
Bout time for a new one though.
I was talking to the owner of a small concrete company that I just used on a drive... he was getting ready to go bid on a small batch truck... figured it would go for 80-90,000.A lot of his business is DIYers. Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
Pete..........."bout time for a new one though"........you did mean the ceement mixer and not the DW...........:)
When I quit the business in 2004 in Atascadero, CA there was a man I bought a lot from who batched the concrete on site. He had a truck which I think was made in Germany. He made excellent concrete and the extra price was well worth the convenience.
I was at world of concrete in Vegas this year. I believe the majority of the mixmobiles were going for around 100000. I use them for romote bridge construction and they produce some of the best concrete. I just finished a 700 yard job that had all of the test cylinders break way above the required strength.
Our equipment has less than a 5% error this compared to a batch plant at about 10 to 15%. As when concrete is mixed in a drum you begin to loose strength and also you have to over hydrate the mix.
Anyway back to the topic on my jobs I usually just get premix for anything less than 40 bags. After that we go to ready mix from one of the big companies. We do alot of industrial maintance etc.
1-800-fresh-mud is the local small job batch truck.
Joe H