*
As a DIYer I tackled this 2 summers ago. I can’t claim any speed record but here’s what worked best for this 1 man crew.
On walkable portion: plugged gutter downspouts w/rags, used roofing shovel (with fulcrum on underside) to peel and push 2 layers of asphalt to ground. I started with tarps spread everywhere and before long nearly doubled my coverage. They are cheap and much better then kids (Dad?) steping on a nail. The bottom layer of cedar was very quickly removed by crow bar. I held a 3′ bar with the hook on bottom and between the 1×4 skip sheeting,lifted the shingles in jerking motions while backing up. I could hardly walk backward as fast as it came up. Repeat a foot or so downslope and continue until roof is clear. As for nails, I started pounding then in and later found it faster removing them. Used a pry bar gripped as a pop can with the bent head down and an easy roll of the wrist while advancing along plank (again across the roof, but I worked several 1×4’s at a shot). A neighbor who initially scoffed at the extra work I was going thru vs pounding in was surprised at the outcome of a competition. I regret I didn’t learn this first as I stared at the pokey ceiling while installing a whole house fan later. The steeper stuff required planks and roof jacks. A lot more work to balance but the debris seemed to find its way down with fewer pushes. In hindsight I should have torn off gutters entirely at the start. Lots of debris got caught requiring extra walking and pushing. Don’t forget having sheathing on hand before tear off. I propped lots against the house to protect windows/siding/plants etc. if nothing else directs onto tarp. Call around re: drop boxes. The local garbage collectors were amoungst the most expensive. Best of luck to you, Bill
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*
As a DIYer I tackled this 2 summers ago. I can't claim any speed record but here's what worked best for this 1 man crew.
On walkable portion: plugged gutter downspouts w/rags, used roofing shovel (with fulcrum on underside) to peel and push 2 layers of asphalt to ground. I started with tarps spread everywhere and before long nearly doubled my coverage. They are cheap and much better then kids (Dad?) steping on a nail. The bottom layer of cedar was very quickly removed by crow bar. I held a 3' bar with the hook on bottom and between the 1x4 skip sheeting,lifted the shingles in jerking motions while backing up. I could hardly walk backward as fast as it came up. Repeat a foot or so downslope and continue until roof is clear. As for nails, I started pounding then in and later found it faster removing them. Used a pry bar gripped as a pop can with the bent head down and an easy roll of the wrist while advancing along plank (again across the roof, but I worked several 1x4's at a shot). A neighbor who initially scoffed at the extra work I was going thru vs pounding in was surprised at the outcome of a competition. I regret I didn't learn this first as I stared at the pokey ceiling while installing a whole house fan later. The steeper stuff required planks and roof jacks. A lot more work to balance but the debris seemed to find its way down with fewer pushes. In hindsight I should have torn off gutters entirely at the start. Lots of debris got caught requiring extra walking and pushing. Don't forget having sheathing on hand before tear off. I propped lots against the house to protect windows/siding/plants etc. if nothing else directs onto tarp. Call around re: drop boxes. The local garbage collectors were amoungst the most expensive. Best of luck to you, Bill
*
RJT - I have done a few of these jobs, I leave the boards in place unless they are real bad i.e. - cannot step on them. I top with 1/2" ply. ring shank nailed or screwed down. If you leave the boards in place you don't need clips because now you can put a screw damn near wherever you need it. I have found that it is easiest to use a compost fork ( 4 heavy tines) and start from the bottom. The tines glide along under the shingles and remove most of the nails as well. If you start at the top the tines will hit the edges of the shingles, and crack them away from the nails - leaving the nails in place. Use a wonderbar to pull the remaining nails - The tear drop hole in the shank of the tool is fastest, then you quickly pull back and up - very fast, literally dozens per minute. Then you push th tool forward to pop the nail out of the tool. Buy one of those "magnet on a stick" tools and use it religiously. Despite the best attempts with ply and tarps I still end up using a shop-vac to vacuum the lawn for bits of shingle, nails and grit. This spring I am going to use my house (7+ square, 5 asphalt - 1 cedar) and considered renting a "billy goat" yard vacuum. Then say the heck with the tarps and sheets - shovel/rake up and then vacuum.
-Rob
*Around here - where almost every hose was cedar on skipped sheathing - a lot of the roofers put 1X2's between the skipped sheathing and no ply. Never-the-less, I agreed with the consensus - put 1/2 ply over the skipped sheathing and called it a day.
*I've done my share of roof tear-off with a fair number of asphalt over wood shingles. We just get up and start tearing off....seems to go eaiser if you get a section of asphalt off then go at the wood with the claw of your hammer. Once the wood is off we pound in any nails left in the skip sheathing. It's a nasty job no doubt. Once the skip sheathing is clean we install 1/2" OSB over the skip sheating, nailing off into the rafters with ring shank nails, just as we would a new roof. Dave
*
In our area, we can tear off the asphalt and reuse the shakes as the underlayment. What is your opinion on this, it definitely saves time.
*
Thanks for all the info, everyone. Patrick M was right about the structure of asphalt x2 over layers of shakes: the skip sheathing on this house is 1" thick and in very good shape and an integral part of the construction: the gingerbread, valleys, etc.
After reading the posts and picturing how to do it, (knowing already what it was like to do a small section last summer) I don't see any easy way out of digging in and doing it. The nails holding the shakes in are like welded into the wood.
I could not tell if some of you are starting from the bottom of the roof and going up, sideways, or top to bottom with the fork.
*
While using the shakes as underlayment seems like a good idea (been there done that) it makes for a really wavy roof unless the shakes are in really good shape. The reason the house was re-roofed was that the shakes were in (no doubt) bad shape. It makes more sense to rip 'em off & use 1/2 osb (or better 1/2 ply)-- even better 5/8 ply to deck over the sleepers ( 1x4 or 1x2) to use for decking. If you're realy lucky, you'll have solid t&g decking & can forget the plywood unless the decking is warped.
As a matter of fact, I helped a friend re-do his 1890's house roof & we replaced sleepers with 1x4's (to bring base up to level) & then osb'd over all that. These guys on this thread know what they're talking about. as a 12 roof veteran (PT remodeler) i havn't see it all, but almost enough
*OK-- We tried various ways. The easiest was to start down about four courses from the top, rip up to the top with a shovel or a roof shovel. (looks like a shovel but has serrated edge). If 4 courses are too much, try three or two. Nails: pullem. If they break, pound em. We use an 18" nail bar. Hope this helps. I'm sure there are full time professionals out there who might flame me. No Problem. It worked for me.
*I did an 1800 sq foot roof this summer. Cedar shake with 3 to 4 layers of comp on top. Used a circular saw between rafter bays, (2x4, 24" on center, yeah right.) The rafters were bowed so bad you could not believe it. Fell through once when one broke. Built Kneewalls full length of house on both sides, then supported each rafter off of the kneewall. After the rafters were all straight, we screwed the 7/16 osb decking down to the rafters and blocked between the rafters at each seam where the sheets met. Roof now looks nimce and straight, very strong, feels good when I do have to go up. hope this helps.
*
Start from the bottom. The shakes make good campfire wood for afterwards when all of your helpers (read that as ex-friends) are exhausted. Break out the beer, start a fire, put one down and nap under the stars.
-Rob
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When I did mine, I quickly found if I started at the top, a lot less debris fell into the attic. This made clean-up much easier. The skip sheathing boards on my house were random widths, so I left them and covered with 1/2" ply. Where some were bad, I just stole a few from other places. In my case that was easy because I put 3 big Velux skylights on one side and built 3 "doghouse" dormers on the other, so I had some extra. BTW, I tried various methods and wound up using a Wonderbar, mostly, to do the stripping.
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Top down worked for me with the exact same situation even though my roofer friends all advised to go bottom up. Too much garbage fell between the sheathing planks into the attic when I went from the bottom up.
*
No.1 The AJC Co. makes a tool called the shingo or the shingle eater.Our crews use these exclusively,they cost about $40 and are worth about $400 in labor. We have tried flat shovels, pitchforks, and all of the other tear-off tools and none come close to the AJC tool.Don't even think of tearing off a roof without this tool.No.2Always tear off from top to bottom,that way you dont have@#%&*#@ falling in your face all day and you have a lot less @#$%#@$ falling into the attic.No.3 pay somebody else to do it!
*If you are tearing cedar shakes, I strongly recommend a decent respirator, the dust is incredible. We picked some up from a local supplier for $ 16.00 ea. and they work great. They are designed to be used for spray painting and have the replaceable cartridges.I have found the disposable masks to be useless, all they do is fog my glasses.Usually the asphalt comes off pretty easy, 'cause half the nails aren't in any decking.We tear, top down, asphalt first, $ 50.00 roof shovels ( worth every cent ), claw hammer for the shakes,bang the shake nails in, probably about 6' ( verticle dimension) at a time. Plywood or osb gets installed. We lay it right over the original deck boards, don't even land the ends on rafters, by god. Plywood clips are neccessary when you don't have your long, ( 8' side )factory edges full bearing on a roof deck board. If you skip this step, you aren't going to have a flat deck.We used to rip, sheath, paper, shingle a section in one day (ugh!) Now, I rip , sheath, paper, clean-up, save the shingles for the next day.I tarp where-ever possible. Avoids nasty asphalt streaks, cedar dust. Its worth the extra 30 minutes to protect the house. Dry in. We use 30# felt, almost exclusively, held on with 1" ring shank plastic cap nails. Valleys get lined with roll flashing prior to paper, ( or the sticky stuff). Vent stacks get neoprene boots, lapped with the felt to avoid leaks over night. Chimneys or other protrusions, get caulked in with OSI ( Ohio Sealants Inc.), roof flashing cement. It cures quick, its not near as messy as tar, and can be removed if it interferes with flashing details. Attention to details with the felt, valleys, etc. allows me to sleep at night.Have fun, line up a chiropractor, take a vacation afterwards.
*Opps! forgot to mention: Shingle manufacture warranty's are REAL specific about what you are nailing their stuff over. If you don't have osb or plywood, they want true 1" boards, no wider than 6", etc. etc. Check the shingle wrapper for details.
*
Based on discussions in this board, I thought it was FACT that no one gets a roof replaced under warranty.
-Rob
*Rob,I have no personal experience with seeking warranty service for roofing, but I've noted that roofing warranties are very specific and can also be very restrictive. For an example, go to the Certainteed Web site, burrow in, and you'll find their warranties. Note that they are specific about following their own installation instructions, starting the warranty off with "Provided shingles have been installed in strict accordance with CertainTeed current written installation instructions..." Go to the installation instructions and then wonder if all roofers religiously follow them (or know of them or care). I think Certainteed is justified to protect itself in this manner, but I doubt that many homeowners are aware that these conditions exist or if their roofers are following them (or care at the time if they are). For this reason, I would include in any agreement or contract with a roofer language to the effect that the manufacturer's installation are to be strictly followed.
*Tarping a roof overnite: I'd never even consider for a moment not tarping the roof overnite, even if the skies were as blue as can be with no forecast of rain. Last summer when I was determined to get part of the roof tore off one saturday, the moment I got the tarp off it began to drizzle. I put up with it until it got more serious and then covered it up to wait it out. It came down and so I gave up, then it stopped. I uncovered it and got back to work again and then it started to rain again, just a little. This time I was smart, I didn't uncover the whole thing, just one small section. The wind took care of that, it blew the whole tarp off and then it started pouring. I got it covered and then it stopped raining when I was still on the roof so I went and uncovered it again and got back to work when it started to lightly drizzle. I covered it up and then the sun broke through the clouds so I got the tarp off and went back to work. Then without my noticing it some big dark clouds came blowing in with much rain and I got drenched by the time I got the roof covered back up. Finally, about 4:30 in the afternoon I gave up and covered it up for the evening and put my tools away. As I locked up the garage the sun came out and stayed out the rest of the evening.
*
I did my gable roof this way. It had two comp roofs on top of a cedar shingle roof; skip sheathing. One guy would get in the attic with a baby sledge and punch up. It worked well except near the exeterior walls there wasn't enough room in the attic to stand.
There was one problem.
I sent a new guy in there to punch up. He hit three times then fell. I quickly got off the roof, ran inside and there were his legs sticking out of the ceiling. His nuts were resting on a ceiling joist. Turns out he didn't know that you have to stand on the ceiling joists. The lath had held him for a couple of punches, but the energy eventually transferred down to his unsupported feet.
That was 3 years ago and I still have one more mudding to do on the ceiling patch joints.
*
Related questions, after the tear off is done.
1) an engineer/builder told me OSB is problem prone roof underlayment. Swelling at edges telegraphs through asphalt leaving criss/cross pattern visible. Yes?
2) Assume old cedar has to go. But want to maintain the old look at gable ends (rakes). I.e. the cedar overplapped the siding by about 2". On top of siding was 3/4" trim board + 3/4" decorative molding, so about 1/2" effective cedar overhang which functions as a very effective drip edge. I hate the look of the premanufactured aluminum drip edge with the obvious seams at overlaps. Anyone ever use a cedar or PT board at the rake the same thickness and the new sheathing to mimic look of old, support asphalt overhang, and act as drip edge? (I'm assuming just letting the plywood or OSB overhang leaves a moisture sensitive edge exposed unless going back to objectionable aluminum edge).
*1) I can tip you off in advance that people will come down on both sides of this. Standard practice in this area is OSB sheath, ply roof. Seems good to me. One consistent complaint about OSB is its moisture sensitivity. Non-defective plywood will not delaminate easily.2) I've been wondering about this too. You don't want to skip the drip edge in the way you describe -- water will ride up the underside of the shingles or blow in and rot the unprotected rake, it has happened to me here. the drip edge ensures that the water detaches from the roof. You could paint the alumnium an inconspicuous color, and snip/bend it at angles rather than cutting & overlapping. My idea was to solder copper flashing myself -- can I just use my plumber's propane torch, flux, and solder? Anyone? Galvanized?
*Wow! Now I remember why i quit remodeling!I'm sill clenching my nuts after reading this thread, and my back hurts too!Here's how I did my last tear off. I got $140 per square ten years ago. I thought I did ok.I didn't have competent help, and was quite concerned about exposing the entire roof. I'm too dumb to own tarps, and too stupid to know how to keep them on in a blow.I decided to strip and lay the roof as I went. I started at the farthest corner from the dumpster. I would strip a 9' section starting at the top, rolling the shingles into large chunks. I would then pick them up and carry them and drop them into the truck. After each section was stripped and prepped, I'd lay the shingles using the common vertical method.At night I only had a very small area to protect from the elements. I would simply roll the felt over the old existing shingles, and tack it down securly.It worked fine, because the deck was in great shape.I slept well knowing that any leakage would be very minimal.Blue"Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes."
*
this summer I need to re-roof which means tearing off 3 layers of asphalt and two layers of shakes. I've considered cutting from inside the attic between the roof boards and then using the shovel/pitchfork to pull them off. Instead of trying to beat in all the nails I'm thinking of using a grinder. Any "quick" removal ideas?
*Yes, this suggestion:Dont count on using those "roof boards". New plywood is required. I suggest 3/4", but others go thinner.Then, just cut away your roof from inside, between the rafters. Three of us had half the roof cut away like this in one day, on one side of the gable. We bagged everything as we went, and had the old insulation to bag, as well.If you are building in a climate that requires a "cold roof", look up http://www.certainteed.com. You will want to determine the type of insulation you will be using to achieve R-40, or whatever. Continuous soffit vents and the ridge vent with a baffle. You might want to get that free tape from AirVent called "Blowing away the myths".For questions ASK JEEVES at http://www.aj.com.Hope this helps.
*RJThat's a nifty idea, slicing between the roof boards from inside, gotta try that sometime. I don't think Alan understood you. It's a dog ugly job and there ain't no easy way to do it. Hire a couple of young grunts to do the shovelling, and bite the bullet and hammer in the shake nails that survive, grinding sounds way too ugly.May your pitch be shallow, and your sawzall sharp!-Patrick
*Hi Patrick.What part do you think I misunderstood?Thanks.
*Once put a second story addition on an old housethat had a similar amount of roofing build up thatyou described. It had 1x10's (full 1" oak) for sheathing with one layer of shakes, and threelayers of asphalt shingles. We tore it off by using a sawzall with a long blade to cut about every 4' between rafters from inside the attic.We then seperated the sheathing from the rafterswith a sledge hammer and just kept rolling thesheathing and roofing down the rafters until it broke away, hopefully in managable pieces.Mike MeriskoMerisko Builders
*Once put a second story addition on an old housethat had a similar amount of rooing build up thatyou described. It had 1x10's (full 1" oak) for sheathing with one layer of shakes, and threelayers of asphalt shingles. We tore it off by using a sawzall with a long blade to cut about every 4' between rafters from inside the attic.We then seperated the sheathing from the rafterswith a sledge hammer and just kept rolling thesheathing and roofing down the rafters until it broke away.Mike MeriskoMerisko Builders
*I'm a little confused by why, if "roof boards" = sheathing and the sheathing is in good condition, you'd go through the effort and expense of removing, handling and disposing of old sheathing and buying, lifting up to the roof and installing new sheathing. Your going to have to get up and out on the outside any way to do the new roof, why not just do the removal from the outside. It's grunt work, but "peel" the old coverings away from the sheathing with specialized roof ripper, garden forks, shovels, whatever.And it keeps all (most of) the mess out of the attic. Re-reading the original message, did you mean to leave the skip sheathing in place but cut the coverings into sections by sawing through the spaces between the sheathing boards? That's worth a try. Might make the pieces more manageable. Or maybe it won't be worth the work.Scott
*I don't see how cutting "between the roof boards" is helpful. If you are outside and starting at the top, the best thing that can happen is when you get several shingles under the shovel at once.If you cut them, that will be more difficult.If you want to save labor, have the truck or dumpster below the roof so the roofing falls into it. If that is impossible, at least have a tarp down there.Either pulling the nails or pounding them in will be easier than grinding them off. Rich Beckman
*AlanYou seem to think the original post-er was proposing to tear the whole roof off. . . sheathing AND all, when what he appears to be proposing is a method of removing multiple layers of shingles by first slicing these shingles up into sections by cutting through them from below by way of the gap/joints in the roof boards, not cutting the boards themselves. . . BIG difference!!! He says he has 2 layers of cedar shingles and multiple layers of asphalt, and recognizes that it is an odious task. I wonder if he would feel a little better knowing that there is probably only one layer of cedar shingles, doubled at the eave (and maybe the rake) as a starter course. Given the longevity of cedar shingles I very much doubt there would be two layers.. . removing one layer is still no fun.-Patrick
*Thanks for explaining, Patrick.The way I understood the original, being contemplated was: trying to cut, in between the skip sheathing.I place no value on the skip sheathing. None. It simple should be replaced with 3/4" plywood.Obviously, circumstances exist which prevent the happening of what I might desire. And I am available, in some instances, to assist with repairs of that quality. But, I just have to ask this: 1.When it was considered that the cedar roof was leaking, probably over the sheathing, and into the house... 2. And when the second roof was leaking, probably again, over the sheathing... 3. Now again, probably over the sheathing...And if I ask that, and find that the sheathing is likely of less value than my best hopes...Then, I say that wood has even less value than the nothing I give it in the first place. Get it out of there!Also, I thought it was very comfortable working from the inside out. Seemed to give me, a landlover, more control..
*I do about 10 roofs per summer. I like to leave the skip sheathing as you call it (I am referring to the 1 x 4's every 4" or so)in place. It helps tie the rafters together, and provides a nice base for the 1/2" CDX. It is also easier to install the ply if the 1 bys are in place, as the rafters stay put.I agree about the 3/4" ply (isn't it wonderfull to walk on?), but it is easily a third more in price, twice the weight, and twice the work to install. No homeowner I know would ever authorize it. In my area, we get about $25 a square for installation of the decking, and I would have to think that this price would go up close to $40 for the 3/4 CDX.I am not sure I would even put 3/4 on my own roof. Its not like you're going to walk on it more than once every other year, and extra strenth is simply unnecessary. Indeed the dead load of the weight may do some harm to the framing. I would only put 3/4 on flat roofs, or lower pitched roofs 3 and 12 and lower. Hey, but different people may have diffent opinions, right?As for demo, in my area, I sub out the tear off at a rate of $50 a square, inlcuding dump fees. It isn't worth running around a 8 and 12 pitch roof getting filthy and maybe getting killed. If I had to do it myself, I'd charge time and materials at about $40 an hour, and would expect to demo about 16-20 squares a day with my crew.Anyway, thats one man's opinion
*AlanI don't go looking for roof 'tear-off' jobs, but a few have come my way that I couldn't avoid, and I have one over my head right now that is nagging at me(same scenario-2 asphalt over cedar). I have yet to encounter an asphalt shingle over cedar roof where the skip sheathing as you call it was so badly damaged as to warrant removal. . .often in need of selective repair, but never wholesale removal!! In my experience, on roofs old enough to have cedar shingles, the roofing boards were rough sawn full 1" or better x 8" to 14" wide and frequently 16' to 20' in length, and not remotely inferior to 3/4 ply. It would be my observation that many, if not most cedar roofs that have been covered with asphalt were so done by owners or roofers for whom cedar roofs had fallen out of aesthetic favour, not to mention the obvious cost difference in the naterial and labour of the two materials. Admittedly they do get brittle over time (40 years+)and when they start shedding bits, homeowners get paranoid, but I'd warrant very few were shingled over because of serious leaks that couldn't have been repaired. In fact a couple of layers of asphalt shingles over cedar shingles makes a roof practically impermeable, except around poorly flashed penetrations. The reason why these roofs have to be stripped is usually because the top layer of asphalt shows signs of surface deterioration and the roof framing can't support another ton of asphalt.I always prefer to repair rather than demolish!!-Patrick
*Patrick,Fair enough.I guess it will be up to the owner to determine yet another thing.But I would vote for removal, for the reasons stated.
*"Scootman,How many workers do you charge $40 an hour for?The Jackman : )And if anyone is interested, sheathing thickness around here is as follows;3/4" for flat roofs, pitched roofs, 16" oc (rafters) - 1/2" osb for the "economy minded," ply for others; 24" oc (trusses) - 1/2" osb for the "real scarey make lots of $$ boys," 5/8" ply with clips for the "do it right crowd."
*As a DIYer I tackled this 2 summers ago. I can't claim any speed record but here's what worked best for this 1 man crew. On walkable portion: plugged gutter downspouts w/rags, used roofing shovel (with fulcrum on underside) to peel and push 2 layers of asphalt to ground. I started with tarps spread everywhere and before long nearly doubled my coverage. They are cheap and much better then kids (Dad?) steping on a nail. The bottom layer of cedar was very quickly removed by crow bar. I held a 3' bar with the hook on bottom and between the 1x4 skip sheeting,lifted the shingles in jerking motions while backing up. I could hardly walk backward as fast as it came up. Repeat a foot or so downslope and continue until roof is clear. As for nails, I started pounding then in and later found it faster removing them. Used a pry bar gripped as a pop can with the bent head down and an easy roll of the wrist while advancing along plank (again across the roof, but I worked several 1x4's at a shot). A neighbor who initially scoffed at the extra work I was going thru vs pounding in was surprised at the outcome of a competition. I regret I didn't learn this first as I stared at the pokey ceiling while installing a whole house fan later. The steeper stuff required planks and roof jacks. A lot more work to balance but the debris seemed to find its way down with fewer pushes. In hindsight I should have torn off gutters entirely at the start. Lots of debris got caught requiring extra walking and pushing. Don't forget having sheathing on hand before tear off. I propped lots against the house to protect windows/siding/plants etc. if nothing else directs onto tarp. Call around re: drop boxes. The local garbage collectors were amoungst the most expensive. Best of luck to you, Bill