I recently installed a front door with 9 narrow (4 7/8″) glass panals after the homeowner stained and finished the slab. After equiping the door with its hardware I noticed that the glass on the beveled glass side was scratched in many of the panes. It then occurred to me that the homoeowner had done this in getting off the excess stain and urithane. I got an estimate from a glass company to replace the glass which was more than the cost of the door (over a $1000) and Got advice from polishers saying the panes were too narrow to polish and tempered glass explodes. I feel responcible for this glass scratching incident since I ill-advised the homeowner to use razor blades on tempered glass. Do I have any recource other than buying them a new door?
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You probably owe them for one pane. If they saw the scratches, why did the continue cleaning?
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Do you have insurance?
Grunge on. http://grungefm.com
One CAN use a razor. But not EVERYONE can. You need to know how to do it and, as noted previously, somebody must be real dumb to scratch one panel and keep going.
Never tell a HO to do something if you don't know their capabilities or common sense.
DG/Builder
FWIW there was a guy posting over at JLC a year or so ago that does window cleaning for new construction.
Claimed that often the problem is not scratches from cleaning, but rather poor qualify control by the company doing the temperin.g
That they leave "trash" on the plates that get embedded in the glass and the cleaning knocks them out.
I clean paint off tempered glass all the time without scratching it. So you don't own them anything for their inability to do it. Now if you cleaned and scratched, it would be another story. Do go out of your way to buy trouble that is not yours.
There is a gentleman who owns a glass cleaning company. This gentleman has a couple of websites and a couple of disciples and he loves to comment on scratching tempered glass.
It is his contention that razor blades don't scratch glass - that glass is scratched by "junk" on the tempered glass.
ASTM states in guidelines for cleaning glass - don't use a razor blade. But, this gentleman feels that as a professional glass cleaner he has every right to use a razor blade and if he scratches the glass as a consequence, well that isn't his problem because he is a professional.
His contention is that "good" tempered glass won't scratch. He defines good not by the clarity, or the ability to perform to impact and break strength standards, or to the ability of the glass to perform as required as a safety product...he defines "good" by whether or not he can use a razor blade to clean it.
Although ASTM specifically advises against the use of a razor blade in cleaning, he makes the argument that since the big glass-accessory "stores" sell razor blades for cleaning glass, they are perfectly acceptable for use in his profession...never mind that EVERY glass manufacturer in North America specifically states that you should not do it.
In the real world, razor blades won't scratch glass IF they are used correctly. As a couple of folks mentioned here already - they use a blade and never have an issue. The trick is using the blade carefully and correctly.
Annealed (non-tempered) glass is generally pretty safe to use a blade - again, if it is used correctly.
Tempered glass, on the other hand, may have a layer of microscopic surface debris known as "fines" imbedded on the glass surface. Fines are considered to be a natural by product of the tempering process and are invisible and totally harmless UNLESS the glass is cleaned using a blade. When a razor blade is pushed across a glass surface that has fines, it is possible for that blade to dislodge the fines and drag them along. Dragging this debris with the blade can cause very fine (no pun intended) shallow scratches in the surface of the glass.
The gentleman mentioned has an interesting policy. He has his customers sign a waiver so that if he does scratch the glass, he is not responsible. What makes it more interesting is that he quite literally brags that he has destroyed thousands of dollars worth of tempered glass in order to "prove his point". He is quite willing to totally destroy a housefull of windows and then tell the homeowner that he is not responsible for the damage. It is the window or glass company's fault for making "bad" glass. He does not stop after damaging one door or window - and then showing the results - he likes to complete the job and make sure every window or door is ruined.
His problem with not using a blade to clean glass is that it takes to long, and it is more difficult, and he loses money as a result.
Oh and the gentleman also sells a "scratch removal kit" for removing scratches from glass. The kit he sells is not the best system on the market IMO because it uses abrasive to remove glass to the depth of the scratch and will subsequently cause a noticeable lens effect in the glass due to the amount of surface glass removal.
For PatrickD
There are systems available that can remove the scratches...and for less than $1000. But, the trick is finding someone who does it. I would suggest checking with local glass shops and especially windshield repair shops. The system you want is something that does not remove glass with an abrasive - if someone offers to remove the scratches ask if the system he uses uses cerium, or another abrasive, or if it is a trizac system...again, avoid these as they will distort the glass.
Try to find a someone who uses a "non-abrasive" system. There are two primary ones available (that I am aware of) that remove scratches without heavy abrasive removal of the glass.
Good luck!
Edited 4/28/2006 9:47 pm ET by Oberon
Edited 4/28/2006 9:49 pm ET by Oberon
Do either of the homeowners wear diamond/sapphire/emerald rings (or other type rings)?
Possibly your biggest mistake was to not have given them a roll of blue masking tape first, lots easier than scraping.
It is very difficult to scratch tempered glass with the flat of a razor blade or steel knife. Even steel wool and once or twice with cleanser does not leave visible scratches. If they resorted to sandpaper on some tough spots thinking it would not hurt the glass that is 'nother story. (dont ask how I know that, but have learned from 'hard' experience to tell diamond ring vs. sandpaper, vs cleanser vs the rare steel scratches very readily - post some pix if you can, but hard to take 3D pix.)
A lot of people who do not do a lot of DIY forget that what they wear can screw up a lot of stuff besides themselves when working with tools or building.
DW scratched the heck out of a car window once when she absent mindedly backhanded the fog off (with cloth glove on even) .
DW scratched the heck out of a car window once
Had a friend use a beer can to scrape frost off a windshield once.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I remember a product that my Gramma had back in the 70's. It was called Glass Wax, pink, and in a quart can like paint thinner..black and white stripped can
You apply it, let haze and buff. I used it on a windshiled that was badly scratched and I remember it did well.
Maybe an old timey hardware store type place or get-a-googleing can find it.
If all else fails, I'd get a white candle and wax with it to fill the void and buff like hell.
edit: here ya go. http://www.oldhousejournal.com/cgi-local/forum1/index4.pl?noframes;read=2369#ggviewer-offsite-nav-8990792
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
tagline comments are temporarily suspended due to Percostte
Edited 4/25/2006 6:57 pm ET by Sphere