*
I’m just back from three hours plus at the Van Nuys office of the Los Angeles Department of Building and Safety. It was my first experience with the permit process as an owner-builder. The overall system for routing you around is amazingly efficient given its complexity. Everybody lines up waiting for them to open, and then the first thing you do is get a number from the receptionist, and give her a brief idea of what you’re there for. She assigns you to a numbered station, and you wait and watch on a CRT display for your turn. The display also keeps track of how long you’ve been waiting. Each subsequent station can route you to another in the system.
My first stop was station 12, a quick look at the paperwork, and a quick routing to Records to look for a plot plan. It turns out that they don’t have a plot plan, but they do make a better copy of the microfilmed original building permit from July 10, 1926. On this one it’s clearly 1926, not 1925, which is a surprise because 7-10-26 was a Saturday. I think I’ll frame this one since it bears the signature of the guy who built my place, Dwight C. Powell, and the fact that he did it for $9,500. You might get a nice coat of paint on it for that much today.
Back to 12, I’m told that I can’t have two kitchens and I can’t have three water heaters in a single family house, and I still need a plot plan. I have the one I drew myself, using the assessor’s map info I got in Escrow, and the assumption that the buildings are centered on the lot. Given the size of the lot and buildings, I can’t be off by more than half an inch in the East-West direction, and not by more than nine inches North-South.
12 then sends me off to Zoning, because I don’t have a plot plan. She accepts the idea that since I’m not changing the footprint of the structures at all, it would be a waste of money to get a surveyor to create a precise plot plan. Another look at all the plans, and with the warning that they might find them to be incomplete, she sends me off to Plan Sumbission.
This is the first lengthy look at the plans. The examiner wishes that I’d shown more detail on some of the joist structure, but decides to accept the package for a regular check. I then go on to the electrical, plumbing, and HVAC packages. I ask about the water heaters, but at this station, they don’t do any of that, so they send me to the cashier to pay $622.88, and then back again to fill out the contact form.
At this point, I think I have to start over from the top for the rest, but when I get to Electrical with my “E” form, I’m told that since it’s under 600 Amps, they don’t do a plan check. It’s all included with the main permit on the “B” form. Same for the “P” plumbing form, under 2″ service, no check. This is kinda disappointing, since I’ve probably spent more time on the electrical than on all the rest. I wish I’d known where they’d want more detail and where less. But after all, it’s a learning experience. I also wish they had more time for questions and discussion, but everything happens in a hot hurry there — and then you wait for the next stop.
Bottom line, LA is really getting maximum bang for their buck with this system. It’s extremely efficient, and makes optimum use of the time of those employees who have expert knowledge in their specialties by having several people with less depth of knowledge out in front to make sure you get all your ducks in a row before the main guy sees them.
So now I’m done. The ball’s in their court for maybe 5-6 weeks, and I’m no longer spending every spare minute doing CAD drawings. Maybe that’s why I have time to blather on and on like this…. 😉
— J.S.
Replies
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That's really neat. We have something similar in WVa for the DMV - with a receptionist and ticket number and CRT display, but that being L.A. I'm sure it's much bigger and more complicated. I wonder how building permits and such are done elsewhere?
*Doesn't sound efficient to me anymore, but I know where you're coming from. Permitting hazardous waste treatment systems in the big city was a pain, even though you'd think they'd like the stuff cleaned up.Building my own house in Alaska, permitting was great. Dropped off plan view and elevation sketches on 8-1/2 x 11 graph paper, he asked for connector details from peak to slab. One and a half days and $350 later, I had my permit. My time to draw the sketches, 2 hours, my time at City Hall, 20 minutes.
*I guess you guys in LA county need that kind of "college experiance : ) but here in fullerton (orange county) I needed to pull a owner builder permit to install an main service panel, I just walked up to the window in city hall told them what I wanted asked them if they had a worksheet for any local codes they said "No just use the NEC", paid my fee and walked out. They have "office hours" where if you need to talk to the inspector he's available. Overall Im pretty happy about the process.
*Sounds like the City of Miami could learn alot from LA...the process here is embarrassing. I could write a lengthy novel on my recent permitting of a tool shed...maybe another time.
*Holy Cow you guys are really lucky out west. Here in Atlanta, a. it's a total nightmare! If you want build in the City you must get an arborist to come out and check the trees on the site and she tells you which can come down. No matter if it's in the middle of the house or not, then you must get a variance and a hearing about the tree. Then you may apply for a permit. After standing around for an hour, some one looks at your plan and tells you you are in the wrong line. Commercial and residential are done in the same place and God forbid you get behind a guy with a shopping center. It has become an all day ordeal and I know of some builders who hire housewives or college students to stand in line for them all day. The people behind the counter are at the beginning nice but soon become rude and completely ignore you until they are done with their cookies or Coke. I have refused to build in Atlanta or even Fulton County any more, it has become such an unpleasant ordeal.
*Here in Toronto we have a Fast Track process. If you are small time or an owner builder, you get your permit same day in reward for waiting your turn (up to that whole day). I found the process quite good and the service very knowledgeable. If you have a bigger project you can save waiting time by submitting prints and waiting several days for a response.One tip I learned from my architect mom. For Fast Track, don't bring in drawings that are too slick. It seams if you are a professional, they nit-pick longer. I went in with very clear, but simple homemade drawings and got great treatment and great advice. While I was waiting I watched a competent looking professional with a decent set of prints for a simple garage get treated like a criminal. They didn't seam to trust a word he said. I got the impression they expected him to pull the wool over their eyes.Another thing I learned, when you go to committee of adjustment meetings, you are better off in municipalities with schools of architecture. The committees are staffed by volunteers. In some municipalities you get a room full of armchair experts (those with time on their hands, usually unemployed). These folks can drag a process on as long as they need to remain entertained. In municipalities with architecture schools you often get a room full of students with some knowledge, aspirations of professionalism and empathy for the work you are doing. You get things done. Maybe all cities should have their own school of architecture not just to improve design but to speed up execution!
*I walk in at 7am nobody in line, they say its like this all day. filled out a 3x5 card with my name address and phone number, hook to my plan and left at 7:10 came back two days later( could of next day) paid $210 and was out by $7:07. Week later on a friday ask for footer inspection, it was done by 9:30 same day. he came out glance in footer and ask where my card was to sign. 10:30 on a same day friday, mud was pulling in the gate.
*Lets all move to Johnnie's town.
*...which is why you see bumper stickers reading: "Make welfare as easy to get as a building permit!"
*Wish I could...LOL
*last week had to get building permit, Today at 4pm went for plumbing permit. Had to talk to the county inspector, had my perk test,blueprints and isometric drawings for underround plumbing. He was about sixty, look at the isometric, wadded them up threw in trash, took a blank tablet, drew out new diagram, told me do it the simple way, sold me a permit for $74.00. I was out the door by 4.25 and ten of those was because the computer ate the printer paper. I hope they are all this easy, electrical and HVAC next.
*Johnnie,Maybe you should get this guy to do all of our homework. You could sell his services online!
*So there's people in real places where the permits are $75 and the government stays out of your hair! Here in Snohomish Cnty WA the Govt thinks it's SUPPOSED to be in your hair. Anyway here is my favorite example of the illogic of county intelligence:It seems the county council is jealous that your kids get to go to school for free while a house is being built, so the new permit cost include the schoool tax for that district, EVEN THOUGH your kids are going to school in another district while the house is being built and you're paying taxes for THAT district as well. Permits here are typically $5,000. It's an outrageous amount but people around here keep voting for tax 'n spend liberals so that's what they get. Okay, I'll be quiet now.DH
*Darrell, Thank you, thank you, thank you.I thought maybe it was only me.
*
I'm just back from three hours plus at the Van Nuys office of the Los Angeles Department of Building and Safety. It was my first experience with the permit process as an owner-builder. The overall system for routing you around is amazingly efficient given its complexity. Everybody lines up waiting for them to open, and then the first thing you do is get a number from the receptionist, and give her a brief idea of what you're there for. She assigns you to a numbered station, and you wait and watch on a CRT display for your turn. The display also keeps track of how long you've been waiting. Each subsequent station can route you to another in the system.
My first stop was station 12, a quick look at the paperwork, and a quick routing to Records to look for a plot plan. It turns out that they don't have a plot plan, but they do make a better copy of the microfilmed original building permit from July 10, 1926. On this one it's clearly 1926, not 1925, which is a surprise because 7-10-26 was a Saturday. I think I'll frame this one since it bears the signature of the guy who built my place, Dwight C. Powell, and the fact that he did it for $9,500. You might get a nice coat of paint on it for that much today.
Back to 12, I'm told that I can't have two kitchens and I can't have three water heaters in a single family house, and I still need a plot plan. I have the one I drew myself, using the assessor's map info I got in Escrow, and the assumption that the buildings are centered on the lot. Given the size of the lot and buildings, I can't be off by more than half an inch in the East-West direction, and not by more than nine inches North-South.
12 then sends me off to Zoning, because I don't have a plot plan. She accepts the idea that since I'm not changing the footprint of the structures at all, it would be a waste of money to get a surveyor to create a precise plot plan. Another look at all the plans, and with the warning that they might find them to be incomplete, she sends me off to Plan Sumbission.
This is the first lengthy look at the plans. The examiner wishes that I'd shown more detail on some of the joist structure, but decides to accept the package for a regular check. I then go on to the electrical, plumbing, and HVAC packages. I ask about the water heaters, but at this station, they don't do any of that, so they send me to the cashier to pay $622.88, and then back again to fill out the contact form.
At this point, I think I have to start over from the top for the rest, but when I get to Electrical with my "E" form, I'm told that since it's under 600 Amps, they don't do a plan check. It's all included with the main permit on the "B" form. Same for the "P" plumbing form, under 2" service, no check. This is kinda disappointing, since I've probably spent more time on the electrical than on all the rest. I wish I'd known where they'd want more detail and where less. But after all, it's a learning experience. I also wish they had more time for questions and discussion, but everything happens in a hot hurry there -- and then you wait for the next stop.
Bottom line, LA is really getting maximum bang for their buck with this system. It's extremely efficient, and makes optimum use of the time of those employees who have expert knowledge in their specialties by having several people with less depth of knowledge out in front to make sure you get all your ducks in a row before the main guy sees them.
So now I'm done. The ball's in their court for maybe 5-6 weeks, and I'm no longer spending every spare minute doing CAD drawings. Maybe that's why I have time to blather on and on like this.... ;-)
-- J.S.