Dear Plumbers, HELP! I would like recommendations on toilet models that flush “brown water” with 1 flush, not 2-3 and don’t overflow (I have small children) and don’t require going to Canada to buy an illegal 3 gallon toilet which I’m starting to really consider. I’ve been through 3 different toilets. Thanks, cathleen
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Toto
Ditto on TOTO. I have not heard much regarding the rest of their products, but we have used thier toilets on many projects lately because they were highly reccomended by plumbers to solve the problem you speak of. They flush really well.
The best objective advice I've found is this actual test of toilets:
http://www.cwwa.ca/pdf_files/MaP%206th%20Edition%20Feb%2010%202006.pdf
It's pretty amazing!
MAny Totos do well.
wonder why kohler and other brands continue to make some of their models that do not flush well?
Toto...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Ditto - Toto.
http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm
Phat
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability
I'm in Canada, and we have Toto. My daughter flushed a pair of panties the other day, never caused a problem. I have never had a problem with these things yet.
Toto's secret to their great flush is a simple one. The diameter of the flapper is a lot bigger than everyone elses, thus releasing more water at once. I havin't seen generic flapers available yet at HD or Lowes.
I have the American Standard Champion (3 of them) and I've had great success. The family I married into seemed to save up just for my plumbing system when they came to visit. Since putting in the Champions, absolutely no problems. One flush takes it away, every time.
People here have complained about the Champions "Clunking" when they flushed, but to me that is a very minor issue. The fact that they cost $200 compared to Toto $500 is a bigger issue - and according to the tests the previously posted above they don't move as much "material".
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Ditto on the Champion, so far. We've only had it for a month and a half, but I really like it and it's got a satisfying whoosh.
OK, So toto makes a good toilet, in Looking at prices, they range from $200 - $3200
Is there a particular model that handles solid matter at a reasonable price?1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
Has anyone mentioned Toto ???(-:
You can spend all day trying to dig up a stump or you can just plow around it [Glenn Scott]
I seem to recall that name from the Wizard of OZ.
Any particular model?1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
The Drake is the toto that I got- It's affordable (about $230 I think), has classic looks, available in round front or elongated, and works perfectly. Plus it's much quieter than the pressure flush type.
zakzak
"so it goes"
Gerber, for those of you with massive poop, Gerber power flush. DanT
The "Drake" was the one model TOTO made that could flush 900 grams of material, way more than any of the other TOTOs (see page 30 of that report).
Almost all of the American Standard "Champion" models floshed over 1000 grams.
I'll never look at soy paste the same again :pRebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
As near as I can tell all of these tests are limited to how the toilet evacuates itself....For those who have fifty or so year old drains down stream from the unit, How do they work?? I can see where the "package" would run dry and plug things up 60 feet from the unit...Comments???
Bud
"As near as I can tell all of these tests are limited to how the toilet evacuates itself....For those who have fifty or so year old drains down stream from the unit, How do they work?? I can see where the "package" would run dry and plug things up 60 feet from the unit...Comments???"
This is less a issue of the toilet used, and more an issue of low flow vs. the old high flow units. The low flow may not provide enough water to clear the line, made worse still with a rough cast iron surface.
New drains can be designed to overcome this limitation. For example, too much pitch ruins the "float" effect. Having the sink and shower upstream improves the odds that the line will be cleared.-The poster formerly known as csnow
we put in american standard about 5 years ago when the county was offering a rebate to convert to low volume . Ive been happy with them , rarley need a second flush or plunge
Are you saying that when planning your waste system that the toilet should be downstream of the sink and shower?
"Are you saying that when planning your waste system that the toilet should be downstream of the sink and shower?"
Yes. Floats any solids that are left behind away.-The poster formerly known as csnow
Comments
The drain is likely 4" CI.
The toilet trap is 2", 2 1/2" or 3"
Toilets are designed to flow very fast.
Drains are designed to run slower to carry the solids along with the water (1/4" / ft. horiz. slope).
w/ 1.6 gal. / flush, it all works (empirical evidence). ;-)
Maybe you have a point that if flush water volume gets too low, at some point not enough liquid to carry the solids down the pipe? Not a problem yet.
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
I put in an Ultramax one-piece Toto in 2005. It cost me $421 plus tax, and that includes the soft-close seat and the Sanagloss option. The Sanagloss is very cool. Essentially it is a slicker finish at the molecular level that is much easier to keep clean than traditonal China bowl material.It was really easy to set, because it weighs less than the two-piece toilets I usually use. Never a clog, and it sees daily use by a "high-performing" client.One more thing. The flush is quick and pretty quiet. Bowl empty, no drama, easy to clean. What more can one ask of a toilet?Bill
Toto has at least three types of 'guts' standard gravity, some sort of pressure assisted, and, um, something else.The prices go up for these devices, one piece, and for enclosed bottom area. The installation prices is higher for all of them, as there is a seperate bracket thing that has to be mounted to the floor and the closet flange.Anyway, we have a gravity one, and it works pretty well. One of the lower end (two piece) but enclosed bottom.
Toto Drake!!
It's their most generic looking 2-piece model.
Toto
Yep, Toto Drake elongated. Installed it myself--very exciting for this non-plumber. Couldn't believe how little water is in the bowl. I called company and they verified size of "pool." Awesome engineering--designed so target area is aligned perfectly under bomb bay doors. When guests come over I always invite them to go up and try my Toto.
Let's face it, most of us will never be able to afford the world's greatest car, and I really don't care. But why not own the world's greatest toilet--something my family uses several times a day, and is not much more expensive than the really lousy ones.
Marc
I have to buy FIVE toilets for my house, and the difference in price between the Toto Drake and the American Standard Champion is enough to put me in the Champion's corner. No way I can justify the extra $500 for the Totos, although from talking to several people and reading this forum, I think the Toto is a better toilet.
reread yur respose...
edit it...
and at least make an attempt at being logical when you do....Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Point I was trying to make was that:
- I think the Toto is probably a better toilet, and all the plumbers around here are using them and like them a lot, but...
- The American Standard is a lot cheaper (by $100 each), and it seems to be just as good according to the study that another poster linked to, so...
- Therefore I am going to buy the A.S. Champion and save myself $500 (5 units).
Jon,
If you are putting 5 bathrooms in your house, $500 seems like peanuts for the overall cost. When you could save thousands by eliminating one of the five, it seems kind of penny-wise pound-foolish to get what you think is a lesser toilet to save $500.
That said, I like my Champion. And according to the study that was linked in this thread, it is more water thrifty than the Totos, which is a big deal around here.
Aimless got there before me...
WTB you have 500$ worth of problems in the future...
saving 500$ in this case is being cheap and not practicale...
a house with 5 bathrooms... the 500$ savings isn't a drop in a bucket in the overall scheme of things..Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
In this case, cheap is somewhat important, and it's not like I'm trying to save money by getting an $80 'complete-toilet-in-a-box' kit instead of a good unit. They're close enough that the money is important. $500 buys the lav, vanity and fixtures for one of the bathrooms.
Not that I need to explain, but the Champion represents the best I can find in terms of cost vs. functionality. 2 baths are for the kids (all five of 'em) who don't need fancy, one is a half-bath for guests, one is the master bath and we don't need something fancy either. #5 toilet is the shop/office can, and if I could get away with a five-gallon bucket full of sawdust, I would.
How about the very old fashioned idea of having the tank mounted up high, near the ceiling? If you let your 1.6 gallons fall 5-6 ft., I'd expect it to have plenty of oompf. Are there low flow toilets like that available?
-- J.S.
http://www.bathandmore.com/productlist.php?CategoryID=13never thought to look...but there it is!
Now that is inconvenient! How am I to get my "Fine Homebuilding" off the tank when it is so high? ;-)
John,As you can see, they are available. The small flush pipe diameter must defeat some of the fluid head advantages. It would be interesting to see functional testing of such units.Years ago I stayed in a place in Scotland that had a pull chain toilet that discharged about 5-7 gallons per flush. The action was so violent and loud that I cracked up laughing every time I flushed it! You didn't want to pull the chain until you were standing well away from the bowl, since water splashed up past the seat level. Cold water bidet, anyone?Bill
Owner comments on the Champion some mixed most people hate ithttp://www.terrylove.com/wwwboard/messages2/42893.html
Edited 4/27/2006 6:51 pm ET by edwardh1
Edward,I don't know why you posted this to me, but I went and read the comments on that forum. Wow! I sure am glad I got the Toto. A lot of people are having the same few problems with the AS Champion, and not receiving proper customer service when they contact AS.AS Champion = Chevy Vega
Toto Drake = Toyota CorollaBill
>>"AS Champion = Chevy VegaToto Drake = Toyota Corolla
Can you translate that for someone who drives a rusty old Ford pickup and knows nothing about car models?
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
Sure.Both cars were originally from the 70's. GM HYPED the Vega and it had all sorts of cheap junk that broke, including some baaaaddd aluminum engines. American company, like American Standard.Toyota offered their basic Corolla and it was a solid, reliable car that just WORKED, and lasted very well. Japanese company, like Toto.Does this help?Bill
I think I get it now.
AS Champion = crappy flush.Toto = flushes crap.
Thanks.
Lost interest in car models many, many moons ago.
Now tools are a different story. ;-)
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
that's it....
ROAR!!!Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I did have a problem with the fill valve on one of my Champions shortly after I got it. AS shipped me a new different one to replace it right away with just one quick call. I was very happy with my customer service experience with them.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
I got one from the 1930's. You want for the shipping costs from NorCal when I tear it out?
The tank has a blue cast at the bottom from the dyes in those toilet cakes.
Alas, all three of my bathrooms have windows in the way of doing a high tank. Thanks anyhow.
-- J.S.
Actually, I've got an extra Champion elongated bowl (too big for my 3 and 5 y.o.) that I am going to try an exparement with... I'd like to hide the tank, leaving just the bowl. I'd mount the tank in the attic over the bathroom, with PVC piping inside the wall, then straight out and down into the back. Might allow me to pull the bowl closer to the wall too. I think the key to this would be reducing the waters energy before it hits the bowl, either through constriction or multiple sharp bends.
Since I have an extra bowl, I can test this setup in the driveway instead of inside my house :)Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
I've replaced a number of toilets in a HUD type facility with TOTOs.
They will be my choice when I replace mine.Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR ConstructionVancouver, Canada
I've thought about hiding the toilet tank, but how are you going to attach the plumbing to the top of the bowl? A few months ago I threw away the original toilet for my house, and the tank was attached to the bowl with a flexible elbow. That would have worked well for your idea, except the toilet was such a dud.
good luck.zak
"so it goes"
There are toilets made specifically for hiding in the wall, but if you think a regular Toto is expensive, take a look at one of those. Plus the special framing requirements.
If you just want to get rid of the bulk of the tank in the room, consider going with a Sloan valve. They're readily available, and no need to go crawling in the attic when you're ticked off because the toilet is acting up. ;-) They're easy to maintain, and rarely need much attention. I had 32 of them in an apartment building many years ago. Swapping out the rubber guts with a rebuild kit is all you ever need to do. IIRC, though, you do need to run a bigger supply line to them, like 1".
http://www.sloanvalve.com/index_3036.htm
-- J.S.
Ahh, industrial strength plumbing... I miss my old apartment. If I was going to go with a system like that (I like the dual flush system!) then I would make just the handle exposed. Maybe on the next bathroom I redo.
I'd like to try and do this with the existing hardware and with minimal extra expense. The space is small (5'x7') and there's a double stud bay behind it.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
So if a good toilet lasts 20 years that would be a $25 a year difference. Not much to have what you want I think. DanT
Sorry I don't know the Toto model by memory (I know it is not the Drake, that was more expensive), but I have bought their most basic ADA model from our local plumbing supply house for about $165 including the wax ring and flange bolts. I have put in about 10 over the past 2 years (ours, friends, relatives, church) and have had no complaints about any of them. By the way, when I was doing the first one, I walked into the supply house with the same question as the OP and the two plumbers standing there as well as the supply house employee all said Toto at the same time.
JonE
Let's get a little "green" here. Go for the Toto Aquia. It is a brand new dual flush, skirted model. I just installed one in our 1st floor B/R and it is the greatest thing yet. I have tried to clog it and have not been able to yet. I think retail is about $450.
Just think of how much water you will save yearly by getting a dual flush that only uses .9 gpf for liquid waste. Pretty cool.
If you think gas is expensive now just see how much water will cost when it is in short supply.
sully
"Toto Drake elongated"
Never thought to mention the enlongated. I thought those things looked awfully funny until I tried one. I like 'em much better than the old rounded ones.
There are things that just shouldn't be pressed up against cold porcelain.
Focus On The Positive And Achieve Your Goals [Warren Holdsworth]
My experience says that if you buy cheap your toilet may not work well. However, any toilet that cost at least $100.00 made by a known manufacturer (delta, mansfield, etc) should serve you well. Lastly, consider height. A handicapped toilet is 2-3 " taller than a regular toilet and I find them to be more comfortable. But you'll need to compare for yourself. Good luck
I have a pair of AS Champions in my home. They are great, never clog nor leave skid marks. IMHO, very impressive.
Good luck.