My customer wants 1300 square feet of deck.
(No, I don’t need a price per square foot – and yes, I know the answer is $99,950.00)
We are looking for a lower cost alternative to a composite for the decking. I have used redwood a lot so I know about the maintenance issues with it, but it would be about half the cost of Trex.
Customer wants a wood grain ‘look’.
Is there another way?
Do we need to invent something?
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My dog can lick anyone
Replies
where did you find the pricing that good and since I saw this post 1st I get half the royalities on the new invention..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Hmmm. Maybe I just got a really bad price on the Trex?
You think up the invention and you can have half the royalties._______________________________________________________________
My dog can lick anyone
Mmmm, let's see, cheaper than Trex with a woodgrain look?
How about pressure treated lumber? Is that still legal, regular old green treated SPF.
Tim, that's what was on the plans. I would rather not use that shrinking, twisting, cracking stuff that requires stainless steel fasteners.
The stuff we get here is soaking wet stuff that didn't make the grade for something else.
Besides, it's green, they want brown._______________________________________________________________
My dog can lick anyone
there is a company here that gets all the downed utility poles.. sawed into 5/4 thick 12ft long goes for $4 a board... and it's brown... oh yeah 8" & up wide
p
Amazing what's available around the country. Sounds like a neat idea.
And it's 'green'._______________________________________________________________
My dog can lick anyone
For a whole lot of reasons trex should never be used on an outside project. They had a lot of problems before the class action and have not changed the product still the same black mold coming up from inside the decking. It could be a batch problem because I only hear from the Folks with the major problems but say its hmmmmmm 1 in 5 that hate the meterial in a few months. How would you like to be one of those People?
I dont understand the Moral problem with S American wood. Say a decking project was put in corectley with 1x6 ipe it lasts for just # s 50 years,this is on the low side there are fence post over there that have been in the ground for 100 years +, but just say 50 years. During this same time the same project installed in the same place with cedar,second growth or cvg doug fir,pt pine has been replaced 6 times. How is this more Moral???
John Hyatt,deckmastersllc.com
Your education is not complete until you understand all you have learned could be wrong.
Trex has already been ruled out.
How does the cost of 1 x 6 ipe relate to the cost of trex?_______________________________________________________________
'what if there isn't a tomorrow? there wasn't one today' - Phil Connors
We just did a HUGE Ipe deck 6.00 a running foot for 1 by deck board! That's 12$ a board foot!
I buy Ipe from the George at East Teak lumber>800 338 5636< He usually gets it to me in a couple of days. Really good outfit from the phone to the material. With shiping encluded I am not paying near $12 a bf.
What really drives the composite deck price way up there is the handrail detail. Ipe rail with allum balusters is always less $ than composite x 2 with the TimberTech system. John
Your education is not complete until you understand all you have learned could be wrong.
Thanks for the info. At this point we are probably going with a redwood deck, although I am looking for a local supply of cedar.
The yard in town says they can't get cedar? But I haven't had a chance yet to look elsewhere.
If I can find the cedar, that's what I'm going with, will probably use Messmer's (sp?) on it.
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'what if there isn't a tomorrow? there wasn't one today' - Phil Connors
I take it they have had creosote treatment then.
dang, what do they use for blades sawing something like that and how smooth is the face surface after cutting?
oh beloved garlic live forever
Edited 11/13/2006 11:12 pm ET by rez
Somebody here in the Big city was quoting $1.30 for some type of trex look-alike, will try & find the name & #.
We just finished the Decks on the city project, Trex 5/4 Winchester Gray $1.90 ft.
Another Place up here has the stuff in the $1.50 lin ft. range. "The Lumber Guy!" one of the outfits up here that recycles & gets odd loads of stuff.
Might be worth Hooking up the Wagon Train & hit the City Lights. We could even stop in @ Earls for some refreshments & checkout the Working Girls!
Select 5/4 PT Southern Yellow Pine is 78¢/' round these parts, I'd suggest your client move<G> "I am the master of low expectations." Georgie Boy, aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003
Now you're talkin! I really would like to have access to that stuff. Maybe my client would make several trips with his Chevy.
It's still green tho, right?_______________________________________________________________
My dog can lick anyone
Sounds good, especially the Earls' part.
Seriously would look at the look- alike for 1.30.
I would look at the working girls for nothing, and buy the beer._______________________________________________________________
My dog can lick anyone
try some of the Brazlian hardwoods.
I just finished "decking" my deck. Did look at trex type stuff but the price held me back. I used decking grade Cedar and it looks great! Price was lower than PT. Also used a 10% off coupon at HD.
My deck is 1200 sq. feet. So far $9500 in materials and about 3 weeks for 2 guys.
Just the railing to build.................The only price the wife got (was getting tired of waiting for me) $65,000 with trex.
Attached is the 3d view
Must use anti-gravitational thrusters; it floats.
Seriously, you have any pics of the real McCoy?
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
I'll look into the cedar. I haven't used cedar for decking in many years, I remember it being expensive.
The 3d deck looks awesome, how about a pic of the real one?_______________________________________________________________
My dog can lick anyone
Not finished yet but here is so far so good!
All cedar and all attached from the underside.
Beautiful work, what method did you use to make the curved rim?
Ran the joists long and then marked them. Cut to follow the lines. wrapped the ends with 3 layers of glued and stapled and nailed PT plywood. Its rock solid. Used a 7 1/4" circular saw to cut the curves. Worked well with only a little protesting.
what thickness plywood and what was the tightest radius? Did you have do anything to the plywood such as kerfing it to get it to bend?
1/2 " plywood and min radius was 102". It followed the curve ok, just a little trickie keeping the ends down but we kept them staggered to even the curve out, couple of big clamps and all was good!
Spectacular._______________________________________________________________
Suburbia: Where they tear out the trees and name streets after them
What finish goes on this deck?_______________________________________________________________
Suburbia: Where they tear out the trees and name streets after them
I'm going to use CWF made by flood. Had good results in the past.
Be sure to post some more pics._______________________________________________________________
If you are what you eat, I'm fast, cheap and easy.
I just replaced the decking on a ~20 year old deck. The framing was in fine shape so we only replaced the worn deck. Client had "moral issues" with composites and tropical hardwoods, and didn't want 5/4 PT SYP, so we stuck with the original material which was 1x4 clear, vertical grained fir. The original deck had 3 or 4 coats of semi-solid stain. Most of the original deck was still in OK shape, but a few boards were starting to get punky, mostly around the area of butt joints that were never sealed. For the new deck, I prestained all sides before installation with a Cabot semi-solid deck stain. During installation, I stained all end cuts, then after installation, the top got a second coat of stain. You can still see some grain through the second coat, but with 2 coats of semi-solid stain, it is almost opaque. If they get another 20 years out of it, which they should, they'll have done well. The 1x4 fir was about $1.10/lf.
I like vertical grain fir, I have used it for various trim and door elements in the past. When I ask for it around here, all I get is a blank look.
20 years is a good life for a wood deck surface._______________________________________________________________
My dog can lick anyone
What moral reasons for no composite? Just curious...I just found out recently that Trex uses recycled plastic. Still don't really like the stuff, but I might not try to talk anybody out of it now.
Any of the hardwoods such as Ipe price out cheaper then synthetics in my market.
Not a whole lot cheaper, but cheaper none-the-less.
How do you finish these hardwoods? Regular deck stains?_______________________________________________________________
My dog can lick anyone
To be honest I'm not real sure, my "go-to-guy" for this type of thing keeps changing his mind on products, It used to be a Sikkens product, then a Penofin, and now it's Cabot's Australian Timber Oil
He advises at the min. doing a coat the first year, to minimize initial surface checking, after that he would rather a once a year application but admits if you do not do it nothing tragic will happen other then wood weathering to a silver color.
We recently built a deck with Cumeru (spelling?) which is similar in appearance to Ipe.
I do not know the finer points of the materials, maybe someone else here can speak to that.
Something else to consider bringing to the customers attention. If they plan to hire someone to apply the sealant or stain every year, it will not take more then 2-3 years to pay for the cost difference between Trex, Weatherbest et.al. over other types of decking.
Edited 11/13/2006 10:38 pm ET by CAGIV
Sounds pretty normal to me, I am familiar with most of those products.
This customer will apply the sealers himself, but I know what you mean. Right now we're trying to trim the budget._______________________________________________________________
Suburbia: Where they tear out the trees and name streets after them
Hey Guys! I finish all my ipe decks with twp 116 rustic, really good stuff put the second coat on right away or wait for next year. This material bonds to the wood and to itself.
For those states the green mafia has invaded, twp makes a 500 series that works about the same. I tried out the 516 rustic on one of my projects and coudent tell the differance. All the projects on my site have 116 on them. http://www.deckmastersllc.com John
Lots of really nice work, there, thanks for the look at your portfolio. I have not used TWP, I will give it a look. How would that look on deck grade cedar?_______________________________________________________________
Suburbia: Where they tear out the trees and name streets after them
It works fine on cedar I use it on copper as well,that one job on my site with copper in the rail has several coats of twp 116. I did that job right after 9 11, still not a trace of green. John
With westeren red the 116 twp comes out a fairly dark red/brown, I use a lot of inceance cedar that starts out a golden/yellow color it stains out a lot lighter. JohnYour education is not complete until you understand all you have learned could be wrong.
I've used Cabot's Australian Timber oil on hardwood decks. Goes on easy, looks good, and just needs to be renewed about 1x per year (more or less depending upon exposure) Beware the hardwoods, Ipe and Meranti (aka "________(insert third world country name) mahogany" generally need to be pre-drilled for fasteners, adding a lot of labor in the kneeling position. Meranti can be super "twisty" so fasten it well.
oh there is no doubt that there will be lots of pre-drilling...
and lot's of drill bits...
and lots of swearing as the stainless fasteners strip out...
even with the hidden fastener system we use there ends up being quite a bit of face screwing.
I hadn't thought about predrilling.
Tell me, are these hardwood decks at all slippery?_______________________________________________________________
Suburbia: Where they tear out the trees and name streets after them
your labor will be considerably greater on a hardwood deck with hidden fasteners.
I'd say almost by a factor of two, at least for the decking portion.
We also plug our surface screws so that adds to it.
I would like to do a deck like that someday, but it doesn't seem like it will save this customer any money on this project._______________________________________________________________
Suburbia: Where they tear out the trees and name streets after them
They sure look pretty when they are complete.
here is a pic of one we just completed yesterday.
Nice. Real nice._______________________________________________________________
Suburbia: Where they tear out the trees and name streets after them
Ipe can be slippery, especially if a sealer is applied. Merenti, Mangaris, Cambera--not slippery, in my experience.
My Camberra deck is extremely slippery when the dew freezes on it. I suspect Ipe is similar.
Kinda what I thought. I wish I could think of a new surface for decks thast was cheap, easy to install,durable, non-slip, and attractive.
So is Trex the closest, then?_______________________________________________________________
Suburbia: Where they tear out the trees and name streets after them
cheap, easy to install,durable, non-slip, and attractive
When you come up with that, let me know so I can come visit you on your private island and have a few umbrella drinks....
Dont use trex,for a lot of reasons. John
We are being told by Cabots that you can not use A.T.O. on IPE and Meranti!!! They told us the finish would only last about 6 mos. They reccomend Mesmers or another product they make called S.P.F.