OK… 90% of my business has been kitchen and bath remodels. The amount of structural work I’ve done has been small scale headers etc. I’ve got a job where I need to remove a 10′ section of bearing wall. I want to be prepared so things go smoothly, as well as not having an issue with the Building Dept in this particular town (reputed to be tough). So, I’d be grateful for a critique and suggestions of my game plan from you guys that do this more often than I…
House is 24′ front to back, wall supports one floor. My reading of the span tables tells me I need (3) 2x12s? My game plan is this:
Build fully studded walls about 2′ to each side of the area to be removed. Is it worth looking at some kind of jacks for this rather than building and scrapping two stud walls each time?)
Strip out existing wall and cut back joists to width of new header, install Simpson hangers.
Place (2) 2×6 jack studs (I was going to rip them to width of header).
Install new header, nailed together, and attach hangers.
Install 2×4’s to sides of jack studs to prevent rotation on the header (?)
Hmmmmmmmm… think that’s all that comes to mind.
Thanks in advance!
PaulB
Replies
Someone with access to the big index may be able to point you in the direction of an article I seem to recall on installing an in the ceiling plane header...it was a good one & worth buying the download from the web site IMHO
you don't mention if you are in unfinished attic above, & whether you have to account for new point loads at the bases of the new jacks & kings.
I've done the temp stud wall approach, and it can be a bit of a pain getting the studs into place. Here's an alternative that the GC did on my place (opening up for a 16' slider):
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Lots of wood, but it needed to be there for a while, and it is earthquake country...
10' is a fairly short distance - the big question is what that load bearing wall is supporting. If it's just ceiling joists should be pretty straightforward. Regardless, be sure to account for the new point loads.
I'd love to see the look on the sheetrockers face if they walked into a house and you convinced them this is the 'new' way of framing walls!
I do stuff like that all the time. Don't bother building stud walls for temporary support, they just get in the way. Get a milk-crate full of small bottle jacks, a couple of 6x that are as long as the wall being removed plus 2' or so, and some 4x4s for posts. You can probably shore up each side with one 6x, two 4x, and two jacks. Bear in mind that whatever points the jacks sit on need to be chased down to the dirt, so you may have to go in the crawl space or basement and throw in some sticks and jacks there also. I always set jacks on scraps of 4x10 or similar.
It goes without saying that you open the sheetrock and inspect the area to be demo'd first. No point in installing a bunch of shoring and then finding out that you need an electrician, a plumber, a tin man, and whatever else. Have them do all of their demo first, right after you strip the rock.
A job like this is all in the setup and prep. Once you get everything ready to go you can pump up the jacks, remove the wall studs, pocket cut for the beam, install the beam and hang the joists, install the new posts, and remove the shoring... all before lunch. Make sure you have a good helper, since you need to get lumber overhead.
This is a good excuse to buy a hanger gun... Y O U N E E D A H A N G E R G U N.
Heyyyy... weren't you the guy that hypnotized me into buying the Stabila SmartLevel?
Must... buy... hanger...gun...must...buy...
I have a palm nailer, figured that would do for this job anyway.
Mind if I drop you a note offlist? I have a couple quick questions about your suggestions...
PaulB
Palm nailer will work fine. Send me a note if you like, I'm here procrastinating some quarterly paperwork and checkwriting.
Are the ceiling joists 2x12?
2x6 Mike...
So the 2x12 header protrudes up into the attic above?
Hangs below Mike...
You might be able to make the header work in the same depth as the existing floor joists, and avoid having anything sticking down from the ceiling. The trick is to use some steel. I bookmarked this link from a previous thread, looks like a neat system:
http://betterheader.com/default.asp
-- J.S.
Very good point. I used a steel beam flush-framed into a 2x10 floor system, and it's got clearance at the top and the bottom. The wood alternative was a 16" glu-lam, which would have poked down thru the ceiling quite a bit, not to my liking. Steel is WAY stronger than wood of the same size.
I actually looked into it... another reg here suggested Betterheader as well. Problem is that (2) 11 7/8 LVL = $130.00, and the spec'd out header with flitch plates was about 700 bucks, PLUS 200 shipping :O
Clients decided they could live with a "soffit".
But, I own you all a huge thank you. I bought myself some jacks today and I feel quite comfortabel with my new and improved game plan. The DWGs flew right through the local Bldg Dept and I'm gonna get cracking tomorrow.
Honestly, my "new life" as a contractor would be much more difficult and a lot less fun without everyone here...
PaulB
Bracing I've used for that kind of thing. Quick, easy, sturdy enough to get the wall out and the header in. I usually stand it off just far enough to have working room. If the above aren't I joists, but split over the beam, then obviously you have to catch each end.
"Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think -- there are no little things" - Bruce Barton
Thanks for all the prompt and helpful replies...makes me feel more confident going in.
PaulB
He will have to catch both ends because he's going to install a flush beam.
Here are some nice shoring jacks:
http://www.ellisforms.com/htm/price_list/s/screw_jack_4x4_6x6.htm
whether you go with stud wall or temporary beam, make sure you don't have it placed between any strapping that may be above the existing ceiling (assuming there is an existing ceiling). You want to be tight against the joists.
I want to be prepared so things go smoothly, as well as not having an issue with the Building Dept in this particular town (reputed to be tough). So, I'd be grateful for a critique and suggestions of my game plan from you guys that do this more often than I...
House is 24' front to back, wall supports one floor.
My reading of the span tables tells me I need (3) 2x12s? My game plan is this:
It sounds like you left out at least two people you need to talk to first before decide on the beam your going to put in there. Unless you happen to be engineer or architect and the building inspector for that town. You may need to have to have your plans approved by the building inspectors before you do much more then start demo.
What the others said works.
I'm pulling a permit for this job Fred, so I'll be submitting plans for approval.
PaulB
10ft isn't that big to worry much about.
In the past I would have done much the same as your plan. Chart it out and draw it up and run it past the inspector.
But I've had occasion in the past to build some beams that were way off the seat of the pants chart ... and I lucked into finding a great engineer.
I now do very little engineering by myeslf. I like to throw as much work his way as possible to maintain a good working relationship.
This might be a good job to do a test run with a local engineer.
One I found is pretty cheap at $70/hr ... and doesn't pad his bills at all.
Most jobs cost under $500 for his stamp.
Seeing as how we're not doing these jobs in our one homes ... his cost doesn't cost me anything. I simply tell the customer I recommend an engineer and the cost is added in. If someone can afford a job where wall moving is involved ... they can afford the "extra" $500.
btw ... laminating those beams ... use ledgerloc's (or what ever length/name U need) ... they're way more fun than 1/2" lags. Work great when thru bolting isn't required.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I didn't see this mentioned anywhere else, so here's one thing to remember before you cut the joists- They may be important in tension, functioning as rafter ties. Take a good look to make sure the roof isn't going to push the wall out when you cut the joists.
Other than that, I sometimes like using the stud walls built about 3' away from what I'm cutting out, because I can staple up visqueen to make a dust containment area. It's a tight little space, but you can take the plastic down as soon as all the drywall is down.
zak
"so it goes"