Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 01, 2000 12:23am | #1

   *
   Chuck..if you're out in the woods and there are no regulations in your jurisdiction, then MAYBE you can do it...but other than that ..you're going to make a mess, spend twice as much time and twice as much money....the only benefit i can see is that you may be able to do it on the installment plan...

   better to arrange another place to live...or some "swing" finance so you can build the second before you vacate the first..

   IMHO

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 01, 2000 12:32am | #2

   *I've seen a few people try that, and they all hated it. Living in a garage is sort of an adventure for a while, but the novelty quickly fades.

2. 
   Bonnie_B. | Apr 01, 2000 12:43am | #3

   *
   Chuck: You could build a garage with a a finished apartment above and live in it while you sell your old house. My husband and I wanted to do this; however, since we live in the big city, the city codes would not permit this arrangement. But if you live in a rural area or small town, then it is a very practical idea. For ideas, try the website at http://www.Homeplanners.com. You could also build the shell of the house; finish the exterior, but finish only a minimum of the interior (such as kitchen, one bath, etc.) You could also sell your house, then live in an apartment while you build your new one. Speaking from a wife's point-of-view, I would not be particularly thrilled to live in a garage-workshop, even for the prospect of a new house. Bonnie B.

3. 
   Guest_ | Apr 01, 2000 07:42am | #4

   *
   Funny this should come up. Twas just last night I was talking to the wife about how to do this. The options were either drag a mobile to the building site, rent a small place for the construction duration, or live in a loft above the detatched garage until the house is completed. Most of our stuff would be in storage whichever option we went with.

   If it were just me, I could get away with the--gasp!--the used mobile home. Even then, I may not be able to get the permits for this. Wifey won't go for this, no how, no way.

   Renting a small place would work, except I don't like the idea of...well..renting again. Really, I see it as a hassle to select a place, move in, and try to set up a life for the interim. It'd have to be pretty much a dump because we wouldn't be putting anything into it and I would hardly be there. Besides, who wants to live in a dump?

   A two room, or so, loft over the garage/shop would work for me. The room area would be intentionally built real nice to be used as an office or guest house after the house is finished. Besides, we'd be on our land where we'd want to be. I mean, I'd want to be on site, since I would intend on spending much of my time there.

   I think there would be some real savings by choosing the loft set up over renting someplace. Probably, it wouldn't be dollar for dollar, still it would be a few thousand. The kicker would be managing the "swing" Mike mentions.

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 01, 2000 02:23pm | #5

   *more on that....the ramifications of building the "temporary" dwelling is what screws up this concept.you can't save money, you can only some of the features and utilities that will be incorporated in the final product..the only one that comes close to a practical cost saving concept is if the design incorporates a walk-out basement..even then the efforts expended in making the basement function and not leak are stupendous and are better spent in building the finished dwelling..if you build the garage with temp. dwelling over.. you need to make your sewer hookup to the garage...if it's a septic system...how are you going to get that approval?you need power, so you set up your main in the garage, now you need to run a subpanel to the new dwelling..you water supply is going to terminate in the garage..now you have to protect it from freezing and rerout it to the finished dwelling..here's a bad analogy... build a 12'dingy... and live in it while you finish building your 36' yawl..and everything that is going to be needed in the 36' has to fit in the 12'...the temporary house trailer is a good one....most jurisdictions WILL NOT allow this, nor will they allow anything that is going to result in 2 dwelling units on the one lot ....UNLESS you already have that right..so, here's my story...rent someplace, or build your second while you live in the first...and concentrate your efforts on the FINISHED home...most time this makes sense when you are trying to finance construction out of current income, with no loans.. but that is much to long term for most.. andeven they would be better off working backwards from the mortgage they can afford and financing construction too..b but hey , whadda i know?

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 01, 2000 03:12pm | #6

   *Chuck-In early '96, I was working in an area that had me driving by a "unique" place for sale. It was generally T-shaped, with the leg short and offset to one end. The last 20' of the east end of the top and the offset leg were both gravel floor garages 16x20. The place was on two real nice acres if you could see past the veneer of old fridges, jacknifed trailer A-frames, and classic Hondas with open dipstick holes. In the driveway alone were 2 Freightliner tractors and an old military deuce and a half all half sunk to their axles. The garages were full of the residue of hopes and dreams far outstretching their owner's ability to act in concert with himself. Once inside, it didn't take long to realize that this guy was a piss-poor plumber. The place was one course too close to grade, so he decided to run the supply plumbing up and over doors and windows. There was a 6 gallon water heater at each sink. It seemed to give him great joy to use as many types and sizes of fittings as possible to make a connection. In the end, it seems, all the little and big leaks chased him away. He had to abandon the place like a rodent leaving a trashed midden. What this all meant to me was a steal. Got the 2 acres, a septic that we pumped and guessed was fine, a level and square block foundation, and exterior framing that was obviously done by somebody else. We wrote a purchase contract that held $ in escrow 'til he cleaned up. Another appealing thing was there were 2 trailer hookups in easily made usable condition. So, I found a trailer to live in, a 1946 Spartan Manor that another family had used as an interim home and rebuilt to suit that purpose; cost $3000. Pulled this onto the site, hooked up, and started hauling trash. His cleanup covered the truly monumental stuff that required wreckers, backhoes and flatbeds. Ended up gutting the place, but first, I poured a slab in the east garage, put in windows, a good garage door in place of the side hinged monsters that gave the skunks a way in, built a closet and bench and hung the old kitchen cabinets after using trichlor to strip the grease. I was single when I first started but 5 mos. later I started seeing my soon to be wife.I guess the allure of retro grouting 220' of block was too much for her, she just needed to be part of it. Two years later we sold the Spartan Manor for $3000 and moved into the house. Frankly, it's still not done but all the important parts are and it's warm and well-built and we were on sight building at a rate that allowed us to place every wall, fixture and window with great deliberateness. Our initial ideas were struck on the old subfloor which was then entirely removed. By the time we got to the ABS we knew exactly how everything would relate to new piers, girders and joists and everything above. We love our house and our property and not just 'cause of the blood, sweat and tears.Out of this all I can definitely say, make sure you are not going to be beginning the undertaking on a shoestring. I had the proceeds of a house sale that I owned free and clear sitting in the bank waiting to be plowed back into this one. Meaning, this was a full-time job, no one else had dibs on my time. Doing this sort of thing on a limited budget while working somewhere else would be impossible unless you owned really good robots.

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 01, 2000 04:03pm | #7

   *I've been thinking about this a lot lately, too, (even though I don't have the cash to do it), and the conclusion I have come to is that what Mike says makes a lot of sense. So the way I have approached it is how do you plan a house that can be built in phases? In other words, plan it in modules, with the first module having the essentials (kitchen, bath, bedroom, living room), but have it designed so that after the first section is built and you are living in it, the other modules can be added with a MINIMUM of disturbance, cost, and duplication of work.Of course, part of the problem is also that I don't want to be "that builder who lives in the tar-paper house". and, of course, the more time you spend building your own house the less money you are making to make it nicer.Anyway, for my area (Philadelphia), I think what my plan will be is to do a foundation (full basement), that will give me a place to put my tools and set up shop, and build a simple rectangular two story timber frame above that. I would conventionally frame the floors (with the exception of a summer beam), but this would help keep the cost of the timber frame down. I like the idea of a timber frame, even though it ain't cheap, because in a few weeks you'll have a totally dried in building, with drywall already up. Frame the floors, install the mechanicals, tape and finish the drywall, trim it out, and its a livable space, not to mention well insulated.Other advantages of timber frame would be when it comes time to add-on, all you need is a recip saw, no re-framing or adding headers or any of that other BS.The next module would probably be a simple gable roofed addition off the back, containing the master bedroom and bath, and an office/study upstairs, and probably a big family room downstairs. Depending on the design, the addition of dormers to the attic of the main house might turn that into useful third floor space.But hey, maybe I'm just dreaming!

4. 
   Chuck_DeGroot | Apr 01, 2000 04:32pm | #8

   *
   Just what is swing finance? I really don't like the idea of renting because It's like throwing money away. I will have to pay for storage also. I guess the key is when my house sells. I am retired and really don't want to use my savings to get started.

5. 
   Guest_ | Apr 01, 2000 11:27pm | #9

   *
   Chuck... "swing" finance is when you ( the average retired person, hah, hah) go to the bank and tell them , you want to finance the construction of your new home , and you want to use the old home as collateral...

   then after you build your new home and move in , you sel teh old home and pay off the bank and transfer your mortgage to the new home.. but at some time the bank is own the hook for two homes... you're "swinging " from one to the next .. kind of like Tarzan...

   betcha there's a retired banker lurkin out there can describe it better than i just did... and give you a couple pointers , too!

   b Mike

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 02, 2000 06:24am | #10

   *Mike, I gotta' hand it to you. You sure make alot of sense here. I'd like to see this post continue for it is something I have thought about for a long time. I'll get back to you later.

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 02, 2000 11:25pm | #11

   *Chuck,I have been there and done that a couple of ways.About 12 years ago my loving wife Belinda and I purchased 21 acres in the Ozarks for our future retirement home. The plan was to build a shop and immediately convert it into quarters for living while we built the house. About seven years ago we put up a 26'x28' concrete block structure. It has a permanent 1/2 bath and a temporary shower and kichen. We also closed off a sleeping room with a temporary wall. I estimate we spent an additional $1,500 to convert the shop to a cabin and this would be lost if we converted back. We did not have any storage to speak of so all of our furnature, etc. would still have to be stored elsewhere. A couple of years ago, Belinda started to get cold feet. The cabin was OK for a weekend but not for the six to nine months it would take to build. And she wanted to be closer to her folks on the flatlands.Lesson learned. Make sure the better half is on board.So, we purchased 1.7 acres outside of Jonesboro, AR.Our plan was to put up a shop building to store our stuff and live in an apartment. It did not quite work out that way. Our house in Illinois sold in 14 days and we had to get out. We put our furnature in commercial storage at $175 per month, rented a 10'x40' temporary storage locker for our stuff and my tools at $75 per month, and a 600 sq ft apartment for $350 per month. All total, about what we would have had to pay to rent a small house.In retrospect, we would have been money ahead to build the shop first for storage only. However, when we started we had perk test problems and our site plan was in limbo for several months. By the time we had it all worked out, our stuff was in storage and it was best to get on with constructing the house (so we could get out of that #%&$ apartment).Lessons learned. Expect delays. Build the storage building before you have to move out of your current digs. This may require you to buy the site, do some site improvements, and put up the shop using your savings. This will be money well spent and you can recover some of this to savings after the house is constructed and you permanently finance. When you get your building loan (a line of credit), the bank will want you to have some equity and owning the land and shop will be a plus.A trailer on site was not an option. Our subdivision has restrictions. No trailers and no goats. I do think a trailer is a viable option if you can put one on your property and find something in livable condition for a reasonable price. I spent a lot of time looking at used trailers for the country place and never found anything that I, must less Princess would live in without a substantial investment. The key to utilities for a temporary trailer is a site plan: house here, shop here, septic here, etc. The trailer goes somewhere else. Telephone, CATV, and electric lines are relatively easy to run overhead and you should not have any significant problems or expense bringing them to your trailer. Your water line will have to be run underground but if freezing is not a consideration you may be able to get away with something simple from a temporary hydrant. 3/4" PVC is cheap and a temporary set up will not cost much if you can avoid the digging (about a $1 a foot here). Septic is the killer. Your tank and field will need to be sited to serve the house. It may be possible to site your trailer so you can use the tank but you may need to do something adaptive. With all of the controlls over waste disposal you are going to have to discuss this with someone local. Based on our experience with the perk test I advise you very strongly to have all of this worked out and approved before you do anything. Lesson learned. If you want to live in a trailer while you build start lookin now.One trailer option is to set it up with its own septic, water, and electric service and rent it out after you move into your house. This is, of course, contingent on zoning, the size of your site, and your willingness to have this kind of rental in your neighborhood. Just a thought.A final thought. Our apartment seemed fine when we rented it but it came to be a major source of irritation and friction in our marrage. Simply put, we were used to more personal space and, while we love each other dearly, we found that living so closely together was stressful. We also missed our stuff. I can not tell you how many times I went to the storage shed to find "something" that got packed and was now needed.Lesson learned. Don't be overly optomistic about anything.Feel free to e-mail us if we can help.Steve

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 03, 2000 04:27am | #12

   *Chuck,How much equity do you have in your current home (Value X 80 to 90% - mortgages)?Can you afford both residences while you build? Figure housing payment on old house plus interest expense on construction loan. Is it more than 25 to 28% of your gross monthly income?Could you sell your current residence and rent it back until you can have your new house finished to occupancy? It may not need to be carpeted/painted/driveway in/all cabinets installed/all bathrooms functional for you to occupy it.can you build a house that can easily be added to? Like a Cape? If not, don't consider renting temporarily as throwing away your money. You may lose more if you tow in a trailer, and then can't sell it. Besides, how long would you actually need to rent?If you're like me the real problem is convincing the better half to move twice. Tell her like this:"Honey, take all the dishes, furniture, pots, pans and everything else that you can't move easily in one day and throw them in a ditch." It's more than likely that you can make up for any loss if you build in the average market, and avoid a realtors commission (sorry to any realtors out there).Good luck and have fun,Bill

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 03, 2000 10:36pm | #13

   *Funny this should come up, Chuck. I have two very dear friends who did just that. They bought a large slice of the top of a mountain in West Virgina, sold their house, built a large storage barn to hold all their furniture and "stuff", then built his woodworking shop, complete with bath w/shower, and lived there while the house was being built. They did say they were tired of it after a time, but they were fine, and had no real problems other than cooking on the camp stove for many months.It can be done, and has been done.

2. 
   Guest_ | Apr 04, 2000 01:39am | #14

   *As stated by others, the garage or trailer route is highly contingent on local building codes and regulations. Our original intent was to build a 3 stall garage with a loft and live in it. It would later become the shop and I wanted a bathroom in it. Local planning and zoning nixed that idea and we ended up doing the trailer routine and filing a variance while construction was in progress. A pain in the butt but it allowed us to proceed. If you embark on such an effort, be aware that this is no overnight lark. Depending on how much of the work you do yourself, you are looking at a 1-5 year project. You will be thoroughly sick of it at times and wonder if you will ever get it done. We suspected that it would take longer than we planned so, so the El cheapo ratted out trailer wasn't even considered. We couldn't find anything that my wife and I would even consider living in, so we ended up buying a new double wide. 2x6 walls, low-E glass windows, conventional siding and asphalt shingle roof, 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, about 1100 square feet delivered and set up for $30k in 1992. It is a little cramped but comfortable. Trust me when I say the project will test you and your marriage. As for saving money, if done correctly, it can. I chose to do it because it was something I have always wanted to do and I am saving some money. Ours is a pay as you go operation, and so far, the time I have available to work on it has been the limiting factor. I figure I will save a couple hundred thousand (US$) in interest alone (typical 30 yr mortgage). Also instead of working a second job and paying income tax on that money to hire someone else to do the work, I hire myself, pay spit, and avoid the taxes. Lest the professionals on this site think I am suggesting that this is a good idea for the masses, hardly. It is a boat load of work and at times extremely stressful and unless your are willing to educate yourself, and deal with local governments and permits, I suggest you spend your time in finding a decent builder. Good luck in your adventure.

3. 
   Guest_ | Apr 04, 2000 03:42am | #16

   *Gordy, i think you nailed it.. but in our town , you can't even put the trailer on the lot with a temporary variance...nor will they allow two dwellings on one lot , even temporarily, they just got tired of having to fight with the property owner about getting rid of the temporary structure a couple years down the road....now, there are some areas and lot sizes that do allow "duplex" units...so , a little imagination....

6. 
   Chuck_DeGroot | Apr 04, 2000 03:42am | #15

   *
   I want to sell my home and build a new one but not sure of the timing? I was thinking of first building a garage/shop to store materials. Rather than paying rent for a place to live I could live in the garage or get a trailer but I'd need water/power and septic. Got any ideas that may help me cause the wife is getting on my case.