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Do you use a water&ice shield on all edges of your roofing jobs or just on the eave/gutter edge?
Is it overkill to put it on the gable edges and at the ridge? What about where a lower roof butts against the walls of a higher elevation structure?
I am talking about the North-East area where we get snow, ice and hurricanes!
Thanks
Kaitlin
Replies
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If this is new construction with overhangs, you have some control over how well the house is in intially constructed. In that case you could do as Fred recommends.
If, however, this is a re-roof and the insulation/envelope integrity is in question or hasn't been repaired/upgraded, I'd place it in valleys and along, as you describe it, the eave/gutter edge. Especially if you have a house with no overhangs. I consider anything less than 16" to be "no overhang" category.
In either case I don't think it neccessary on the rake or ridge.
I'm in coastal Connecticut. In windy areas, on the beach, exposed, or on the coastal islands, I sometimes run roll roofing vertically down the rake edge before shingling. Over the tar paper and under the drip edge. Also, roofing this time of year in a windy locale, I butter the outer few inches of the rake shingles with a bit of roofing cement.
A few extra steps which others may deem unneccessary, but they keep my callbacks at zero.
*Kaitlin, check your local building codes. I know around here a lot of townships require Ice Sheild to continue up the roof until it is 2' past the inside walls.
*Kaitlin,
Joseph FuscoView Image"The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." -- Plato
*Kaitlin, That stuff is expensive make sure a half roll doesn't end up on the ground. The last place I would burn up leftovers is the ridge. Joe
*One thing no one pointed out was the type of roofing. If you have cedar or some of these concrete or slates applied over strips, then the underlayment becomes integral to the water shedding process.I covered my whole roof because it was cheaper than buying a big enough tarp. I tore off, framed some new and reroofed in April, so I new I'd see alot of rain before I was done.-Rob
*Kaitlin,You can use the ice gaurd in all of these areas. I also run ice gaurd down valleys,up cheek walls,and apron walls,around skylights,chimneys and any other roof protusions. I figure it's cheap insurance. I also cut it into 6 inch strips and use it around windows.I also use it for counterflashing... the uses go on and on
*I had never heard of it until I started reading here last spring. - jb
*Gentlemen. All three model bnuilding codes read essentially the same: "In areas where the average daily temperature in January is 25 degrees F or less or where there is the possibility of ice forming along the eaves causing a backup of water, an ice shield that consists of at least two layers of underlayment cemented together or of a waterproofing membrne, shall extend from the eave's edge to a point at least 24 inches inside the exterir wall lione of the building." BOCA 1886 edition, Section 1507.4 GeneL
*As has been noted before, it can (should) be used under shingles on low sloping roofs. In fact, it's a more attractive choice for something like a shed dormer roof to use the waterproof shield under shingles that match the rest of the roof instead of using a (ugly) rolled roof product.
*I think I have mentioned this before,but the more I use this stuff the more uses I find for it.It is expensive,and I used to offer it as an" extra" for an additional charge.When customers saw an itemised bill for how expensive it was they rarely agreed to it as an "extra".Now I clearly describe ALL the area's it will be used in and include it in the total price of the job......Take it or leave it. If I am gonna do the job,it's gonna be done my way.I would be happy to cover the entire deck with this stuff but I feel that might be needlessly expensive.I almost always put it along the gutter edge, I have never run it up the rake.Almost always in valleys(unless W valley is used and it would not be a bad idea there also). I like it around chimneys lapping it over the last course of shingles below the chimney. It makes a lightning fast temporary overnight flashing job. I put it on shed dormer roofs that have a much lower pitch than the main roof. In addition to all the houses we do,my company roofs about 100 garages a year for one of the local garage builders.(hardly fine homebuilding,but it does pay the bills)The builder called me up a few months ago in almost a panic. he says the County is gonna start requiring it along the Bottom edge of garages.Whats the point on an unheated,super ventillated building like a garage?I don't think I have ever seen an ice dam on an unheated garage. I use as much of the stuff as I feel comfortable with. If the customer doesn't like the price,there are plenty of un-licensed fly-by nights available to do their roof on the cheap. Just don't count on those guy's honoring their warranty or returning your calls post sale.Good luck,stephen
*Rob,Are you saying it was exposed all winter? If so, how does it hold up?Jerry
*No, not all winter, all summer.Was applied in April, within a month the metal roofing was applied to all but the hips and ridge. Of these areas, only about five linear feet saw direct sunlight, it was not constant, but it was direct. The white printing turned brown presumably from the oils in the stuff. The poly layer did not shrink, crack or check. It is still pliable and still appears as though it will self-seal. I wondered how well it would weather so i played with it some. The ridge should finally be capped this week; Knee surgery has kept my feet on the ground for the last month.-Rob
*I like the stuff, and am not so appalled by the cost. The shingles can get pretty expensive themselves, and the labor to repair roof failures quite high indeed. As said, "relatively" cheap insurance.I remember reading -- FH probably -- of a builder who used bituminous membrane on the entire roof for slopes 3:12 or less. This actually sounds reasonable to me, esp. for windy areas. Anyway, use the stuff around skylights, windows, and at the eaves. Our unprotected eaves seem to be perpetually wet -- at least they are the last to dry after a storm, thanks to roof litter and gutter splashback. The rake should be OK with properly installed drip edge and tar paper, right?Hey Stephen -- which is your favorite valley, anyway? Exposed W-valley, blind valley, etc.? I'm thinking of a 3:12 and 11:12 right angle intersection on my roof and figure copper flashing under a blind valley ... over a 3' swath of bituminous membrane (pronounced "b*tch-men-ous" if I recall).Oh yeah, and I want to put a chimney through that valley... (just kidding)
*Andrew, If you have a pretty steep roof,say 10/12-12/12, draining on to a lower pitched roof(your 3/12 example qualifies). I would like to put Ice gaurd down first---then an exposed W valley flashing.I would also like to do this in the case of a very big roof intersecting a much smaller roof. The small peak in tne center of the W will break the flow of water from the bigger or steeper roof. Instead of running sideways out accross the smaller or lower pitch roof the low friction of the exposed metal will lead the water down the metal to the gutter. Water running sideways across a roof is a leak waiting to happen.Here is a bonus tip.... Downspouts which drain onto a lower roof,with the elbow directed out across the roof,rather than down hill are a leak waiting to happen. Imagine the downspout to be a firehose. (Don't you want all that water running downhill over the shingles,rather than sideways and under the edge of the shingles?good Luck,Stephen
*I agree. I wasn't sure how good a diverter the W was, but I see your point. Copper or aluminum?The spout onto the roof thing always seemed kind of dumb to me anyway, if only for staining and erosion. How do you handle a downspout to another gutter junction? Does anyone use scuppers (or whatveer t6he common term for collecting recptacles -- I thought it would decrease splashing). I noticed a house yesterday with no downspouts, just open holes, into really thick bushes!Thanks, Stephen "a leak waiting to happen" Hazlett :)-- ad
*Andrew, "Stephen "a leak waiting to happen"Hazlett sounds like a libelous statement,or slanderous or somehow actionable ! Material Costs ,High quality aluminum $1 / lineal ft(24" wide),Copper $7/lineal ft.----You decide.Once the water is in a gutter or downspout it never leaves a gutter or downspout untill it reaches the ground.Never dump water from one roof onto another roof,even if you have to run downspout down along the roof.( in Bloomsburg PA, Home of my sister inlaw,alot of the houses are very close to a river actually built on a flood plain. No storm sewers,very difficult to drain water away from the house.A common solutuion is to elbow out the downspout about 8 ft off the ground and point the flowing water at the street. They will put up a pole by the sidewalk to support the spouting running almost horizontally from the house,across the sidewalk to the street where it cascades from 8 ft up onto any oncomming traffic.If a tree is handy they will use it instead of a pole to support the "sideways spout"By the way We have a great way of flashing those idiotic"center of the valley "chimneys we come across.I think I may have foolishly spilled the beans about it in archived post. With any luck it has been lost, cause we decidded it is to profitable a trick to give away free.Good Luck,Stephen
*"a leak waiting to happen" -- just 'cause you say it a lot!
*...but he says it well...
*All,Maybe I should start a new post but this question is on topic.I intend to cover the entire deck with GAF WeatherWatch because of the low slope (2:12). It's a shed roof (with an intersecting 6:12 gable) adjoining the back wall of a two storey house on Long Island. I was hoping to avoid shingling until the spring so I contacted GAF to find out about maximum reccommened exposure of their product. They say no more then 30 days exposure but went on to say that I should not cover the whole deck because my roof has to breathe or it will rot. For the record, the roof is 2x10, cathedral ceiling, and will be DP cells with no vent.As a lurker here I should probobly know better, but this guys comments refer to a typical vented roof, right? I should have nothing to worry about, right? How about some feedback (reassurance).TIA,Jerry
*Yes. I'm debating the same point -- my proposed 3:12 shed intersects an 11:12 gable for what it's worth. Anyway, the bituminous membrane is the classic vapor-barrier-on-the-wrong-side (in a heating climate). Unlike tar paper, it won't let moisture through. Presumably if the sheathing or framing becomes damp from escaping inside air it must dry to the vents or to the inside where it is partially encapsulated by bituminous membrane. (If the roofing system is leaking rain, that's a whole different matter -- you gotta fix it to save the sheathing, neither vents nor tar paper will save you.) Now, in a non-vented roof, you're gambling on keeping the interior moisture out period, and using a bit of interior drying perhaps. Soooo ... you should be OK. I think it's be a clear mistake to use poly or other virtually vapor-proof materials below, however, because it would produce a sealed sandwich that would prevent even the moisture content from the mill escaping the framing and sheathing.I'd prefer to use tar paper -- I like the stuff and it's cheaper -- but am worried about the low slope. 3:12 I'm on the fence ... at 2:12 you're at the limit. Elk, the only one I know anything about instructs installers of its shingles on 2:12 to 4:12 to use two plies of underlayment overlapped a minimum of 19". See Elk's site.I think the tar paper is fine unless you expect standing water on the roof -- ice dams or, in my case, substantial roof debris from a neighboring 100 y.o. oak. -- leaves, acorns, pollen, etc. which collects at an astounding rate during a storm. In any event, the first 36" will be the bituminous stuff -- among other things, I like the way it adheres completely to the roof deck so water can't go shooting around under it, its self-sealing ability, and the way it sticks seamlessly to flashing.
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Do you use a water&ice shield on all edges of your roofing jobs or just on the eave/gutter edge?
Is it overkill to put it on the gable edges and at the ridge? What about where a lower roof butts against the walls of a higher elevation structure?
I am talking about the North-East area where we get snow, ice and hurricanes!
Thanks
Kaitlin