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It seems more and more common that the lumber supply houses stock overly wet lumber. Can’t trust em anymore. The latest projects i’ve made all started shrinking in a short time. I am the finish carpenter in new home construction and see the framers using wet lumber all the time. Wish we could get somewhat dry lumber nowadays.
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Chuck... plan ahead, or do your own shopping...
*Case hardened seconds is worse.
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Chuck,
Are they using doug-fir or S-P-F lumber? Alot of doug-fir is shipped from the mill "green". Wood is hygroscopic [abosorbs moisture from the air] by nature. By the time the lumber travels from Canada or the Pacific Northwest by rail, sits in a re-load center or distribution yard [usually outside] and then travels and sits at the local retail lumberyard the original 15-19% moisture content is considerably higher. I agree that some lumberyards don't care what they send out for framing material anymore. It is hard to get good mouldings anymore, too. Full of pitch pockets, wild grain, down to 7/16 thickness
on casing and baseboard material.
Scott
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Well gentelmen (or ladies), I dont know exactly where you folks all are (geographicaly), but talked with my brother who is a foreman at a major saw mill here in the Northwest, and he said due to building being done at such a fast and steady rate (and will be for some time) the saw mills and camps cant keep up. Dont expect it to get any better any time soon. And the quality is suffering with the speed that its being cut at, Five or ten years ago a STD/BTR was better than a No.1 is today, cost almost half, and was able to be gotten anywhere. The enviromentalists hav'nt helped much either, over twentyfive percent of Oregons forest land just got shut down and designated National Forest protectionlandsomethingorother. Its all BS, I say cut it down, log it!!, build stuff, turn all wood into 22" wide planks and lets build stuff!!!!!
*Chris, You're right on. I've built chicken houses and play houses for my kids with the free stuff they would set out back. enjoy Ariz. chu
*Yup, that's right Chris. Let's cut it all down and then think of something else to rape. Yup, that's the ticket.
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Why, Calvin, you don't think its reasonable to blame the environmentalists for the fact that 2x4's come with bark on all four sides?
By the way, "National Forest" is a euphemism for "taxpayer subsidised gravy train for the wood-products industry", not a protected area.
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I can hardly believe what I'm reading.
*Not to worry, Thomas, you know it's getting exaggerated when two by fours have bark on all four sides. But I've been meaning to talk to you about those crummy faucet cartridges you've been making...
*Now Barry, its not the poor(er) lumber quality that leaves me astonished, rather its the presumption that "environmentalists" are to blame. And about my faucets...they're supposed to be like that. How else can I support a huge corporation other than to build obsolescence into my products?
*Oh yes Hot Saw Dust is right. Why should every man woman and child in our country own a little forest land, that they can use for recreation, when the politicians could sell it to megacorporations? Then the corporations could hire some ironmongers to put nice gates up and help the economy. Then they could cut every freakin pecker pole stick to make 4 sided bark 2 X 4s. Some select areas could be left unraped so that the CEOs can still recreate on nice forests. I reserve the right to use our National Forests. Its our land and it should stay that way.joe d
*Gentelmen,Gentelmen, I did'nt mean to get some big ass argument started here, all I'm trying to say is UP HERE in the northwest the timber industry is being hurt by many things (the tree huggers are just one aspect)and the original statement was "wet lumber is a pain". It was just my opinion as to one or two of the reasons why we cant get decent lumber at the price we could five or ten years ago....supply and demand, remember from skool, if the lumber aint there to be cut and as we go farther and farther out to get it, the price goes up, and at the same time the quality goes down due to the speed at which we use it. As far as saving our resources for Parks and Recreation..fine, to a point, think of the 20 million plus acres in Oregon alone saved by the granola eaters.... we could make one big ass park to go recreate in when were all pushed to unemployment like hundreds of thousands of others involved in the timber industry. But nobody can bring any form of emissions emitting device to include BBQs,dirt bikes,motorhomes and campers with gas stoves, hell..no motorhomes or campers for that matter. So, should we all sell our tools and buy backpacks? I think not! Just let someone lay in front of a piece of equipment I'm running, I dare ya.
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View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
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Well, at least your bias is clear.
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Well Chris if you don't want a big argument then perhaps you'll settle for a small one. The Northwest is a green doug fir market and has been for many years. Us NWters call this pond dried. The big difference in moisture content stems from the increased preponderence of sapwood (and the corresponding wane) in our current lumber supply. Units of green lumber inventoried do not dry out significantly while they wait for market. Instead they rot within a couple of years. Yes a unit of green doug fir becomes an unusable pile of "pile rot" within a couple of years of being cut and bunked into a unit. The sapwood of the tree is full of moisture and nutrients and weighs more than the heartwood because of moisture content when green.
Few large old growth trees exist on private land for cutting and marketing to satisfy your desire for quality lumber. What large old growth trees that exist in OR on both private and federal land are largely found in the creek and river botoms. Surely you cannot advocate cutting these trees and further imperiling the remanants of the ecosystem that existed here before the Oregon trail. Perhaps if these trees were cut you could have good lumber for another couple of years, but then you would have a 200 year wait for more of the same.
Chris without regard to what your brother says and does i feel that you don't have much knowledge of the OR timber market and timber reserves.
For the record one more time (past threads); i believe there are areas were clearcutting is a valid forestry management technique. I believe that timber harvest on our NF and BLM lands is in our countrys best interest. However harvests are necessarily reduced at this time because of unsustainable levels of harvest in the recent past. If you want good lumber you've got to let the tree produce some heartwood.
joe d
*----Arizona Bound----Does that mean you advocate tying up a whole state ?? Is the purpose to keep them from driving thier cars to the emmissions testing station? And to keep them from replacing the filters on thier smokestacks ? And to keep them out of the way whilst you cut down what few trees those poor sots have got ? Or is it just an indication that you are a twisted and perverted person ?Or does it mean yer going to Arizona ?? (So GIT already, and leave our trees alone.)Saw a bumper sticker on a logging truck the other day. From a distance it was easy to see the picture of the earth, and read the words Earth First ! Get closer and you can see... "We'll clear cut the other planets later."Don't mind me... I'm just stirring up controversy, (Because I am a perverted and mean sort of individual.) LOL
*ok, Ok..I give up (LOL)I just got up in a mood this morning and decided to see where everyones heart was...just decided to start some sh*t and see where it went. I dont drink but will be more than happy to buy all of you a few cold ones to show you I was just kidding. I like trees..hell I'd be outa' work if it was'nt for wood and the general publics ability to manage it well. I may not agree with some things and care very deeply for things others may not, but is'nt that what makes this "green" planet twirl?All of ya'...did'nt mean anything serious by my "preverted and mean" comments. Accually Luka, I am headed for Az. and Im not such a mean person...I wont take any crap off anyone but am told I'm fairly likable.
*Chris,I was just pokin fun. I wasn't serious about anything I said. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
*What are you going to do when Russia realizes how many trees they have and starts to flood our markets with cheap imports? Do you really expect them to be good conservationalists? Don't worry once they start dumping their wood, we'll have decades where it won't pay to go in our forests to cut a tree.
*I wish they'd hurry up and realize....
*Its kind of funny. this week i needed good, kind of dry lumber, for some scaffolding i'm building. So i toured the yards but couldn't use the crap in stock.Well i went to home box and low and behold they had the good sticks. 20', D Fir, 2X4s, oldgrowth, almost clear. 2X8's clearly grade stamped S-Dry sold as green (pond dried), etc.Obviously the big box purchasing agents are bustin chops to get the good stuff.Needless to say price was not a concern here only suitability.Any way i'll even make some trim out of that scaffold some day.Chris R, sorry i busted your chops the other day but i was increadibly ornery for some reason.joe d
*I still can't believe what I'm reading. So its OK to decimate forests as long as its not in our backyard? Doesn't anyone care to recognize the web of life? And who's really cutting the trees, the loggers or the consumers? This comes up way to often, and it worries me.
*Steel studs, anyone? Jeff
*And now you're cutting down steel trees !!!Will the madness never end ??
*We HAVE to cut the steel trees down at this time. This will allow time for the aluminum and titanium trees to grow to full maturity. Those old cheap steel trees won't be missed anyway...James DuHamel
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It seems more and more common that the lumber supply houses stock overly wet lumber. Can't trust em anymore. The latest projects i've made all started shrinking in a short time. I am the finish carpenter in new home construction and see the framers using wet lumber all the time. Wish we could get somewhat dry lumber nowadays.
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Yikes!!! There is a sore spot with investors. Wickes lumber "invested" in Russian mills a few years ago. Cost them a fortune.
Wall Steet Journal had a brief mention of the Russian lumber venture in a front page article this past Wednesday [4-12]. Interesting article pertained to http://www.buildscape.com and how building materials are marketed over internet.