Help! My husband and i are building a home in southern-central MS and are trying to decide what kind of roof to use. It is about 5500 sqft with a very steep pitch 12/16 ( or is it 16/12?) . House is French/creole style. We are considering synthetic slate ( so expensive)& different grades of architectural shingles. I would appreciate some advice and wisdom in this area!! Thank you! jochiz
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south central MS is still prone to hurricane winds, so factor that into your decesion.
Don't know about MS, but around here 5500 sf isn't exactly poverty-level housing, so if you think synthetic slate is too expensive, well...most would say you're building a McMansion.
The definition of a McMansion is an unnecessarily large but cheaply built house.
Here we would recommend real slate or cedar shingles for that type of house.
DG/Builder
dgbldr:
REmember teh sqft of roof is not the same thing as sq ft of house. With a 16/12 roof teh sq ft of the house is probably less than half of teh sq ft of roof.
So I suppose one could inquire as to the number of sq ft of livig space?
With a 16/12 roof teh sq ft of the house is probably less than half of teh sq ft of roof.
Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how many floors.
For example I think my foot print for my house is 1400 sq ft plus a decetn 2 car garage, 12 in 12 pitch roof. I required 38 squares of shingles.
Is that a McMansion?
I could be wrong, but I assume 5,500 is the house s.f., not the roof. OP didn't say. I'm guessing somebody who doesn't know the difference between 12/16 and 16/12 pitch is unlikely to know the s.f. of the roof.
DG/Builder
dgbldr:
You are probably right. And I reread teh original post " It is about 5500 sqft with a very steep pitch 12/16 ( or is it 16/12?) ."
5500 sqft WITH . . .
MAn! what is that . . . 100 squares (assuming single story)?
Well, i appreciate your input. I think that is why i am so stressed about this decision - beause i don't want a "mcmansion"! I'll remember that term. So i do want a great looking roof but i want quality, durability, and low maintenance. My architect( a very highly regarded one in the southeast) recommends Select Slate - as third choice under real slate and wood shakes. It really does look good. I think it is hard to tell the difference in curb appeal. Unless you are a trained eye. I don't know. It is a tough decision. ANy other input would be appreciated.
As your architect said, the artificial slate is a THIRD choice. You know what that means. Looks is not the issue. They do look good. Durabiliity IS the issue.
The synthetic slate products have had a mixed service record. Some have done better than others. None have been around very long, so it is difficult to say how long any one of them will last.
Make sure you get a good warranty from the installer and make sure you get an installer who will be around for a long time. The manufacturer's warranty means little on this type of product. If it fails, they will typically give you new material, but will NOT pay for the labor.
DG/Builder
Follow-up: also read the product warranty carefully. Most warranties for this type of product are carefully written to include only "manufacturing defects". That means gradual deterioration, fading, etc. over the years from exposure to the elements is not covered, as it is not a defect.
The better warranties include very specific coverage: against erosion, fading, peeling, cracking, etc.
Also, when a warranty is "pro-rated" over a number of years, that means the manufacturer is certain that is the MAXIMUM life expectancy of the product.
DG/Builder
Don't mean to pry, but I want to ask how old you are and how long you plan on living in the house.
Reason being, if you're youngish and plan on staying there 50 years, absolutely get the slate roof. It will outlast you and your kids, and you will never have to replace it.
Now, if you're 70 and will be there 10 years, forget the slate, go cheaper, leave the extra dough to your kids.
You could also consider copper shingles if you like longevity. I did not form a mental picture of your house from your post, so maybe it wouldn't look right.
Cedar roofs look nice but I don't think they last that well... maybe 25 years tops. Cedar is not what it used to be (it used to be tight grain old-growth material). I live in cedar country and would not put a cedar roof on my own house, even though it is the historically correct material for a farmhouse like ours. I took a cedar shake roof off the house this summer and it was like burnt toast.
We are in our late 40's. We plan to be in the house til at least retirement, maybe later. THe house is a French county/Creole ( Hays Town style ). My husband talked to someone today who said we should do a metal roof. I dont' think that is the look I want. This is a major issue. Thanks for the input.
I agree that at 16/12 the roof is a major architectural element,so best get it right.
If you do choose slate research it carefully,since there are some quarries that handle less than superlative stone.NOT ALL SLATE IS GOOD.
Check it out fully before you order and make sure you're able to find a good crew of slaters for the install-it's more painstaking than some other roofing materials.
If the look of metal bothers you, I think that there are metal "shingles"--individual pieces that look more like shingles instead of the usual corrugated or standing seam or whatever.
David, their age or how long they live there is irrelevant. The value of the house at any given time will reflect the value of the roof. A real slate roof will have an essentially infinite life. A fake slate roof will gradually deteriorate and the value of the house will be discounted for it.
So in your scenario, if they were 70 and the kids were to inherit it in 10 years, the kids have a choice of a house worth $x (real slate) or a house worth $y (fake slate) and $z in cash. In every case, x > y+z. Guaranteed.
End of Economics 101 :)
Econ 101 is irrelevant to many people making these kinds of decisions. A lot of my customers look at how long they're staying in the house when deciding on what to spend on building or remodeling. They rarely if ever talk about how this will affect the value of the house when/if their kids inherit it.
As far as fake slate that degrades quickly... most people will decide not to do something like that regardless. Since the OP has gone to the trouble of making this inquiry, and the responses were negative, I am pretty sure she's not going with fake slate. On the other hand, 100 square of standing seam copper would cost over $100K, so she may not do that either. We'll probably never know.
I somewhat disagree. It all depends on where teh house is and teh value of surrounding houses. If there are no other houses in teh neighborhood with slate roofs or other high end items you will never get teh value of the upgrades out of the house. Unfortuantely, square feet and number of bathrooms are king.
Not hard an fast to be sure and there are many variables.
People buy a house and expect it to have a roof. A ten thousand dollar roof is roof and so is a fifty thousand dollar roof. So the roof is worth ten thousand dollars tothe prospective buyer. A bit of an exageration, but you get teh idea or potential issue.
I drove around in the neighborhood today. I think all houses have architectural shingles of varying grades. Homes are all 3,000 to 6,000 sq ft. Several homes in our town ( other neighborhoods ) have installed Lamorite slate. Other brands recommended to me were Eco Star by CArlisle and Max by Inspire roofing. . My roofer estimated 50,000 for very good grade architectural shingles, 80,000 for Grand Manor "Shangles", 100,000 for Lamorite synthetic slate, more for real slate. It is a major decision to me. But want to make a wise decision.
I'm leery of the fake slate products, but Carlisle and Tamko are both good companies that have been around quite a while. I'd steer clear of any new start company. A 50 yr warranty is a waste of paper if the company's gone in 5. Good luck.
Wear something sexy if you're gonna talk..
http://grantlogan.net/
i'd either go with the Grand Mannor, or the real slate
another one you could look at would be Certainteed's Landmark TL , a lifetime warrantyMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
You know what a lifetime warranty is, don't you?When it breaks, its lifetime is over!
yup... especially with a fly-by-night organization like Certainteed
Landmark TL.. great shingleMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Your post confused me. Isn't "fly-by-night" a derrogatory comment? But then, you compliment the Landmark shingle which is made by Certainteed. Is the Landmark better than the Grand MAnor?
I think Mike's "fly-by-night" comment was tongue-in-cheek. Sarcasm doesn't always translate well in print....
>>>>>>>>>Is the Landmark better than the Grand MAnor?Both good - different apperance.
Can I get that Little Debbie snack cracker out from under the heel of your pointy boot?..
http://grantlogan.net/
Are you being mean?
Seeyou bein' mean? Never
I was mean to brownbagg once, but I sincerely appologized.
Can I get that Little Debbie snack cracker out from under the heel of your pointy boot?..
http://grantlogan.net/
Ya but he deserves it .
It was the "little debbie " quote that got me.
That's a line from a song.
Can I get that Little Debbie snack cracker out from under the heel of your pointy boot?..
http://grantlogan.net/
>>>>>>>Are you being mean?Nope. Just answering your question. Your question was a kind of "what's better: lunch or dinner?" type question.
Can I get that Little Debbie snack cracker out from under the heel of your pointy boot?..
http://grantlogan.net/
Cement shingles have a weight factor to take into consideration, lite weights are 600# a square and regulars are 950# a square. Eagle was the brand but I heard that they're pulling out of CO. Problem with extreme temperature swings leading to tile breakage. That's all I know.
I haven't noticed that but maybe the midwest does not have as extreme temp swings as the Rockies. Like I said I worked on a very old cement tile roof 30 years ago that had roof damage from a tree branch . the rest of the roof looked great . still does, I drive by at least three times a month.
950 is not that bad , just abit over three asphalt shingle roofs.
50 Gs for "very good grade architectural shingles"? WHAT! MAN 5 Gs buys a pile of "very good grade shingles! $45,000 for labor????
Something is rotten in Denmark or in your neighborhood.
Have you given any thought to cement tile/shingles ? They come in many styles . I got smooth one that somewhat look like a thick slate. Cost at the time was about $140.00 a square. Mine are from Lifetime , But there are other companies closer to you . Labor would run the cost up some ,however I think it should be cheaper than" fake slate" . Mine has a 50 year warranty. Cement roofing shingles are not something new There are a few houses in my town that have them and are over 80 years old. Back in the 70s I did a repair on one that had a tree branch encounter. Other than that there was no sign of wear.
Someone had mentioned cement tiles to me. Any idea of a company who makes them? I would like to research that. thanks!
I got mine from Lifetime Rooftile Company , General Office : 600 West 5th. ave. , Naperville ,Ill. 60540 ph. no. 1 800 359 4166
There is a company I think , in the Carolinas that also makes them . they have an ad in FH all the time I think it is VanHyde or some thing like that.
A ten thousand dollar roof is roof and so is a fifty thousand dollar roof.
Don't know where you are (fill out your profile) but here in Michigan home buyers are quite a bit more sophisticated than that, especially if they buy a 5500 sf house. SubZero is not just fridge, Miele is not just oven and terazzo is not just floor.
Slate is not common here so it does stand out and carries a hefty premium when reselling. Fake slate is even less common and carries a penalty.
DG/Builder
dgbldr, it is true that what I say starts to evaporate as teh price of homes rise. However, for the vast majority of homes people jsut don't pay much for upgrades.
They like them ALOT!! And they sell the house fast. But if the house across teh street is priced 20 thousand less, forget teh marble floors.
Again, if you are talking about half million dollar homes then people do say for 50 grand this house offers me X. However, I would bet you a roof would not fall into that discusion with 500,000 dollar houses. Now at a million? Now you are talking to people with money and details matter.
One proof of my point is the original poster. He just posted that no one in the neighborhood has real slate, most don't have the fake slate, most are asphalt shingles. DO you really think that neighborhood warrants real slate? I doubt it, and if you were to put one on you would never see that money again.
Of course in the cultural center or the Universe, Michigan, I am sure things are quite differenet. LOL!
Standing seam metal- most would prefer copper.
Standing seam would look really, really goofy on a French Creole.
you "seam" to know a lot about it, so I'm not going to argue. <G>
However, this is what I had in mind. I think I've seen a lot of standing seam roofs on houses like this. Maybe my recollection fails me.
View Image
However, it may not be anything like her house.
Live the Good Life in the Permian Basin.
http://www.certainteed.com/CertainTeed/Homeowner/Homeowner/Roofing/Prodindex/Shingles/AsphaltShingles/RoofingHatterasProdIndex.htm
Troy Sprout
"Don't forget the screws"
Here is a real expensive one http://www.davinciroofscapes.com/ Email them and they will send you a sample. Its a whole lot lighter than the real stuff and it can be walked upon.
Do not and I repeat do not use cedar shingles. They don't last as long as some other forms of shingle, here in the midwest they lead to more bugs in the attic, and most important of all the FIRE HAZARD is huge. Like putting kindling on your roof. As far as the "fire retardant spray" that you can use on the shingles > it doesn't work all that great. It takes your kindling roof to slightly less flammable kindling....
Measure once > cut once > get board stretcher....
There are pre-treated fire-retardant cedar shingles and shakes used here... they turn the water in your gutters black. I guess the lawn won't burn either.
The Kansas State firefighters Assoc. just lobbied the state and won to allow homeowners to choose what type of shingles they wanted to use regardless of homeowners assoc. regulations. Believe it or not that in our area there are countless Homeowners assoc. that "used to" require only cedar shake... Put alot of water on the roofs of those houses...
Measure once > cut once > get board stretcher....
Sounds like an improvement. I know that in lots of areas of California it's illegal to have a wood roof. We had a solid working fire here recently that started on a wood roof due to lack of a spark arrestor on the woodstove flue.
a properly installed cdarroof can last forty yearsbut you are right that iut can burn up easy
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