Replies

1. 
   Tennisball | Sep 04, 2002 02:38am | #1

   Scott,

   Your architect should be advising you that the more definitive the information, the better the price. His services are cheap compared to the contractors trying to cover themselves for the generalities.

   Having said that, all of the base building materials should be sized and identified. There should be line diagrams of the plumbing, heating and AC, if any. Electrical schematics should be drawn, along with a lighting fixture schedule.The heating plant should be sized, with a manufacturer chosen, or equal. There should be a window, door, and hardware schedule, and a room finish schedule, all with specifications. A paint spec should be included for interior and exterior. Other specs should be included as they may apply.

   To be absolutely sure of what prices you are getting, and to be able to compare them apples for apples, include an itemized bid breakdown schedule that the bidders can fill in and return at bid time. Your Architect can assist you in this regard. Other special conditions may apply that you may want to mention in the bid invitation, such as restricted access, schedule, payment terms, clean up, restoration of property upon completion, etc.

    

   Good luck.

   Phil
2. 
   Piffin | Sep 04, 2002 03:29am | #2

   Since you have an architect, He should be aware of this.

   I don't enter bid situations because most folks trying to select a contractor by that method are looking for the cheapest price rather than the best job. Most better builder that I have known don't work those situations either.

   But if I were considering the possibility, I would refuse to spend time preparing a bid for any job that was insufficiently documented and detailed. It is relatively easy for a contractor to bid low and write an open contract allowing for marked up change orders with nonspecific plan details.

   These details do not need to be on the drawing. The windows, fixtures, etc can be simply labeled with a letter or other symbol refering to a 'Schedule'. Then you create a document as an attachmnet have detail notes and lsiting the apliances, fixtures, paint colours, doors, hardware, floor coverings, etc. This listing method can make it easier for contractors to see the details and not miss any. It is a shopping list and a reference and keeps the line drawing much cleaner and easier to decipher. Be very specific as to manufacturer and model # .

   eg. I can buy a light fixture for $15 to $300 bucks with all of them looking somewhat similar at first glance. Assuming twenty fixtures in this job and I buy at $59.95 while my competitor buys at $14.98, he has underbid me by nearly a thousand bucks on just that item. Then, after he wins the lowball contract, he comes to you and shows you the difference between the one he bid with and the upgrade. You sign a change order to get the better piece but he charges you a change order fee in addition to the added price while he may even hit you for $75/ea.

   Got the idea?

   It sounds somewhat like you are serving as your own draftsman and designer with minimal support from the architect. If so, have you resolved with him who is responsible for errors and ommissions?

   I applaud you for the work you've put into your dreams but it is possible your education is just beginning. Good luck, we're here.

   Excellence is its own reward!
1. 
   outside | Sep 05, 2002 01:16am | #3

   Phil,

   The architect has done a great job on the plans, all of the items you mentioned are called out in detail. He just asked me to specify "human interface" type stuff, plumbing and lighting fixtures, etc. Thanks for the tip on the itemized bid breakdown schedule. I had been imagining something like this but you put a name on it and fleshed it out.

   Piffin,

   We probably have a builder picked out. We are going to send the plans out for bid to two other builders mostly for a sanity check and to know that we are being diligent. I can see how from your end why you would not want to respond to bid requests. But I do not have a lot of experience with this. How am I supposed to know that I am paying a fair price? Thanks for the illustration on light fixtures. I will make sure that we specify everything by brand and model number. As far as the draftsman/designer thing, the architect is taking care of all that, but you brought up a good point on errors and omissions. I have to admit that I did draw the house up in Cadkey prior to hiring the architect, I needed to be able to show him what I want. Besides, that was the only way I could figure out what the angle of the new roof needs to be to look the same as the old roof. (The new addition is at approx 40 degrees to the existing house due to lot limitations). Don't worry, the addition has a 9'6" sill plate versus the 8' sill plate on the existing house. That way the framers won't be cussing at me for having to try to match up the old and new roofs.

   Thanks again for the great advice gentlemen.

   Scott Owen

1. 
   Piffin | Sep 05, 2002 03:42am | #4

   Sounds like you're on the way to a good job, Scott. enbjoy it well!Excellence is its own reward!

3. 
   tjcarcht | Sep 05, 2002 04:29am | #5

   To make a project easier to bid, I usually itemize "Allowances" for such items as fixtures, hardware, toilet accessories and tile.  Therefore, actual selections can be deferred until construction has started and everyone has the same amount in the bid (items x allowance cost/item = price) for items you can't decide on now.  Usually the amount is specified as 'material-only' with installation included in the bid.

   The trick is to be very careful about how allowance amounts are decided and how they will be adjusted (usually by change order) when actual selections are made.  An architect needs to "know their client" to know whether or not a $5/SF floor tile will cut it.  A lump sum allowance of $1,000 for countertops won't go far if the owner likes granite.  Labor/installation can be affected too - for instance a $10/SF allowance for the material purchase of tile will not include a fancy tile layout with lots of cuts unless that is understood in advance.  That's why I usually show the 'type' of tile layout (pattern) on the drawings to establish a basic level of detail to be provided.

   T. Jeffery Clarke

   Quidvis Recte Factum Quamvis Humile Praeclarum

   (Whatever is built well, no matter how humble, is noble) 

    

   
   

   ---

   Edited 9/4/2002 9:32:02 PM ET by Jeff Clarke

1. 
   4Lorn1 | Sep 07, 2002 09:26am | #6

   Not to be flip but you should specify anything that you have an opinion, even a foggy one, on. Lots of things are taken for granted. Plans seldom specify, this is from an electricians point of view, things such as the height or locations of receptacles along walls or over counters. Draw yourself a diagram of the bathroom elevations including any towel bars, soap dishes and the location of the receptacle serving the sink area. I have sometimes been called back to move a receptacle, an extra charge, that ended up below a towel bar that wasn't shown on the plans.

   Anything not specified will be done according to the whim and judgment, or lack thereof, of the electrician on the job. There are standards and common sense but if you have some ideas make sure the people doing the installation get the information. Sticky notes sometimes work for this but most of this could be on the plans.

   The next thing to remember is going to seem to contradict what I just said. There is considerable leeway afforded in the code for some things but there are some rigid standards. You may not want, need or desire a receptacle in a particular area but the code specifies a receptacle every 12'. With some notation as to your desire for a particular wall to remain as  receptacle free as possible the boxes can sometimes be jockied around to minimize the number on that wall.

   The other thing that can limit choices is framing. Recess can light locations are a notorious bone of contention. The architect draws them in one place. The HO wants them in another. The framing won't allow a placement that resembles either case. The easiest solution is to get all the parties on site to set placement. Some architects are adept enough with their design software to cross reference the joist or truss locations with the lighting diagram.