We are planning a model/spec home. It will be the first one in a 35 sub division on about 90 acres that we are installing the road ways for. Lot prices are 600K +/- and landscaping and site work w/septic should be around 100K each. We want to kind of “set the tone” for the rest of the homes. Figure 3500 sq. ft. of finished space bringing the sale price to 1.2-1.3m. NG is the prefered source of heat. We want better finishes and products. Average home cost is about 1.0 in town.
We would also like to start a more green or smaller carbon foot print as the PC people like that term. Helps if I tell you the job is 30 miles north of Boston, 12 miles south of Nashua NH. Site work starts next month. We are selling the other lots to builders as we do not want to be in that business.
I have a few thoughts of my own but thought I’d ask; What would you build? What would you spec?
Replies
I know nothing about New England, but $1M homes 30 miles from a major city would be a tough sell around here (San Jose, CA). I've lived here for 35 years and for as long as I can remember, people have traded long commutes for more "affordable" houses.
With regular gas at $4.25/gallon, lots of those folks are really hurting. Hybrids are flying out of the dealers showrooms and there are waiting lists.
pretty broad question....bump.....
Definately put on a slate roof !!
I'm sorry to be the wet rag... but... with lot prices over $700,000 and finished prices at $1.2 mil, you don't have alot of room for extravagence unless you bring the square footage down. At less then $200/sq foot you're looking at home depot off the self finishes.
Edited 6/2/2008 7:24 pm ET by sledgehammer
I think you have some very lofty aspirations considering the economy.
I'd be thinking of building dinky little energy efficient homes with big vegetable gardens and a chicken coop.
[email protected]
I 'spec you right!
Forrest
Something is going to make a big kerplunk soon.
Am I prepared?
No.
Am I scared?
Yes.
The last thing I would want to be involved in right now is building "McMansions".
Sorry robwes.
I hope it all goes well for you 'cause if it does, that means I'm still alive.
Eric[email protected]
Sorry, If you call 3500 feet large, your in the wrong town. I've seen some big homes going for 1.5-6.
Are you builders?
NO offense intended.
Rob,
I'm just messing with you a bit.
Look up Pawling, NY, or the county of Westchester, NY, or Fairfield County, CT.
That's about where I live. There is some big multi tens of million dollars shelters being built in the area.
Some custom, some spec. The low end is gone, land is too expensive. There is a lot in between, just ain't happening at all right now.
There is a house up the road on a 1/2 acre that could easily be fixed up in a neighborhood of nicer homes. It's listed for 250 and is now down to 225. They have it listed as a knockdown. It's been sitting since last fall.
Something isn't good, and I don't see it getting gooder.
Wait till this winter. How are all the poor old folks on fixed incomes going to heat their homes this year? They are allready are strapped to buy gas and groceries.
I just don't see it as I good time to tie up a lot of money in much of anything speculative.
I've been in and aroung building for 30 years and I am currently a PM for a small remodeling company. Just to answer your question.
Best wishes.
Eric[email protected]
Considering what I custom built mostly hourly at 2500 feet plus a detatched 24X38 and all site work, (no landscape yet) plus land cost I guess someone gets the smelly end...
For 815 (or 232.85/ft) I just saw a builders so called custom job with: Painted finger joint trim, Pro Line windows, 2X4's used on all walls, 6 panel Masonite doors, no RFH, 2 zones using 2 units, large single head shower, nice space and the use of same, eastern white pre stained shingles, spruce trim, 200 amp, no custom lights or controls, 3 br, 3.5 bath, nicer kitchen, Cat 5e, coax, landscaping included, mixed floors, gas fire, ect.
I must be really, really spoiled. Glad I'm not a home builder.
Slateman, I'd LOVE to see your work in this project. Do you still have my contact info? You need a fresh trip to Maine. :-)
No slate. Only copper roofs.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
For 815 (or 232.85/ft) I just saw a builders so called custom job with: Painted finger joint trim, Pro Line windows, 2X4's used on all walls, 6 panel Masonite doors, no RFH, 2 zones using 2 units, large single head shower, nice space and the use of same, eastern white pre stained shingles, spruce trim, 200 amp, no custom lights or controls, 3 br, 3.5 bath, nicer kitchen, Cat 5e, coax, landscaping included, mixed floors, gas fire, ect.
yeah, but you said you were going to build 3500 sf for $500 K.
i don't have my calculator, but isn't that like $145 per sf ?
now we're talking the basic vinyl box.
$700 K per lot. wow.
our most expensive part of the entire Lehigh Valley might have one or two lots that would go for that.
i love Boston and have always wanted to live there.
so much for that.
carpenter in transition
Why does your dirt cost that much? Does it have some view or built in hydroelectric source?
That's the town. 2 acre min lot size with a tear down starts at 575+. 600+/- on a new town maintained road with granite curb is a deal. 4000 feet of town road plus nearly 3500 of common drive is near 3.0m to build. We are not using a bank.
The road starts in July, by the time the dust settles from the doomsday people we'll be in perfect shape to market the lots.
Forget the numbers. What would you spec?
I just bought a lot from a guy who believed that back in 2000. Look's like he'll be lucky if he breaks even by the time he gets rid of them all.
Interesting time to be bullish in the market. Especially THAT bullish. Good luck.
This town has a strange history. The values have never really taken a dive unlike everything else over the years. We are very sure of ourselves.
700k for land here is 400 acres
That's what this cost me.
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I still don't understand what his has going for it.
If you want to go green there's some good, proven super insulation methods and discussions to be found on this board. Try the "Advanced search" feature, above the topics column on the left, using "exact phrase" to look for "super insulated".
and if you go w/superinsulated you need to build your promotional and marketing skils so that potential buyers will recognize it (the insul) as an asset. Otherwise they don't 'see' the value.
Yes and one way to market/rationalize super insulated homes is to point out that they provide a means to living on a large scale while conserving fuel.
My next home will be moderately large, 2600sqft, super insulated; four bedrooms with about six hundred sqft for recreation and a home theater.
I'll be building with resale in mind, after qualifying the home for the capital gains exclusion. That will give us two or more years of actual fuel bills to show potential buyers.
The way fuel prices have been rising, we can easily anticipate that this subject will become the most significant issue for new homes buyers in the foreseeable future.
You have a lot of good resources in your general area (surrounding states). Your problem, as mentioned, is that the lot price is WAY too high to warrant putting a crappy development on. I live in a town full of the biggest idiots in the world, as far as real estate goes. The people up here make their money in oil and gas and will afford property that poses a big commute, but the trade off is usually a 5-10K sqft home.So DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT if you want to be able to sell it. Why don't you design a LEED certified development. Build with urethane SIPS, use standing seam metal roofs with water catchment systems, install a common/shared geothermal system, solar hot water is a must. Google Energy Star and pick the most efficient appliances. Use SIMPLE materials, artfully.SIPS are cheap, effective and easy to build with. Stick to simple designs and you will save a lot of cash and headaches. You just have to know how - and that's part of the investment YOU will have to make to make it work.Your price point is going to require some thoughtful design and planning. You are not going to be able to get away with some crappy "but it has stainless steel appliances and granite counter tops" POS. Don't waste the money on flashy BS that is going to date itself. Spend a LOT of time thinking about how to convince a buyer to say "It's not some dream mansion, but here's what I love about it....". And if they have a home that costs them next to nothing to heat/cool/maintain, that is something that you won't get in a McMansion.
My first thought was that if you want it to be "more green" don't build it so big.
Smaller footprint, less cost, lower utility bills.
I'd get Dieselpig to frame it.
I would build this, for which the plans are available from Robinson
Design. A lot of people might say that stock plans are junk, but not these.
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"A stripe is just as real as a goddamn flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Rob if I were you, I'd try a different tack with this. Perhaps starting a thread asking what people would expect to see in a $1.2 million house might get you the information you seek. I know what I would expect and you ain't building it for less then $200 psf.
Well after a meeting today we moved the numbers around a bit. We are now looking at the 1.5 market but will lower our lot price a little. We will also look at installing the septic ourselves.
Lots on a new project are not moving at 600 with ledge and needing septic. The 1.5 market is however OK. Not great but stuff is moving.
We have a tour on Thursday looking at other new stuff and also at some builders who are working steady in the area. More names than I expected.
Thanks
Lots on a new project are not moving at 600 with ledge and needing septic.
But I can sell you ten acres on a public road near the south rim of the Grand Canyon with approved septic for $20K. Guess what the clinker is there? :-)
Rob - I know the area fairly well since my BIL lives in Topsfield. This area is strongly oriented toward traditional clapboard houses and many people here might not know that.
Also, people might not know that it is a strong area for veneer plaster, with VP costs not much above drywall cost (last I saw).
I would definitely consider:- high efficiency direct vent hydronic heating with indirect water heater (Weil MacClain or similar) - radiant heat or HW baseboard - Honeywell digital thermostats
- SEER 16 or above A/C
- attic cooling ... possibly whole-house ventilation
- ERV (this is only a $2500 +/- cost and WORTH it)
- Energy Star appliances ... front loading washer (saves 8,000 gallons/year!)
- closed cell foam insulation exterior walls
- Low E II, argon windows (preferably Marvin)
- engineered lumber
- it's a cedar siding area ... not sure you could sell Hardi or similar
- top lighting where possible (to reduce dependence on artificial lighting)
- veneer plaster (6x strength of drywall)
- integrated RF lighting/dimming controls (lowers scope of copper wiring)
- globe-enclosed light fixtures with CFLs
- low VOC paints
- recycled content floor tile
- care with construction waste / recycling
HTH
Jeff
In conversation yesterday I did bring up SIP's. I looked at them for my own home but changed the plans. THe name of a local respected builder came up who is using these. I've seen a few of his homes but never was there to see that they were using SIP.
As for the balance of the list that is what I was talking about. I'm trying to push the Hardi thing but Shingle-Craftsman Style is what people are buying and want. Hardi is not cheap when you go that route.
As for the others... Some live in cabins, some live in homes, and the rest live in big expensive homes. It's all based on what you can afford to spend.
RobWes,
Energy efficency should be a high priority.. ICF's are energy efficent and relatively fast to build by experianced crews..
I'd roof them with SIP's and either stone or brick exteriors.
I'm not familar with the Boston area but that price range sounds like they are move up homes.. The problem with move up homes here in Minnesota is the market is so badly flooded with existing homes that most buyers dispare about selling their homes. Some homes have been on the market for over 2 years without a real offer..