*
Does anyone have any good wholesale, web, or discounters interested in selling HVAC products. Am building a new house and need everything. Found good sources for electrical and plumbing, but no HVAC yet??? Especially interested in Bryant and Lennox
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
The RealTruck AMP Research Bedsteps give you easy access to your truck-bed storage.
Featured Video
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
*
I am doing the same and could use some sources for savings too. Pass along the names, url, www etc. please.
Are your sources for electrical and plumbing truly Wholesale?? This is protected turf by distributors and usually unless you are a dealer you won't get wholesale, you may get a discount but not wholesale. Contractor pricing on the other hand is about 65 to 70 % of retail. Are you getting that? If so - not too bad.
HVAC sources I have used are friends in the business. The best way is to get scratch and dent products, new but cosmetic scratches etc. no functional problems usually. A friend may be able to get the equipment for you at contractor pricing. Worth a try.
*SCRATCH and DENT????With all due respect, some folks really amaze me that they think so little of themselves and their families' comfort as to assemble structural, plumbing and necessary comfort systems from the "bone yard".I suppose next, you will be looking to the internet to save $500.00 off your $3,000 lighting budget?Just get a fucking woodstove and some metal duct from the alley on garbage day, eh?I am sure I will owe someone a apology tomorrow but I figure if I couldn't afford something that is soundly engineered and would last, I could wait until I could.I would live in a Frigidaire box before I would spend the money I had worked my ass off for, to give my family anything but the best I could save for. My pride and our future familial well-being/security depend on it.Try Dollar General guys,Jeffps: I agree with others, this forumn is going to the dogs and we will see these "bargain bonanza boyz" back on this forumn next fall asking for free advice on how to fix their "sidewalk sale" mechanical/structural systems. Mark your calendars.Taunton: are you proud of your marketing strategy???
*I'd like to see things at 30% off... is that "retail" like in "suggested retail" or is that "retail" like in "you shlubs will pay this?"Dealing with contractor suppliers, and taking the cash discount, I've yet to see anyone offering 30% off "usual" prices.Last I noticed, Square-D, Lennox, Kohler, et al...were offering discounts if you wanted a box-car sized opening order. Anyone need the extra 6000 or so 200amp panels I'd have left over?How about the 470 toilets?
*CONTRACTOR PRICING MY ASS!!!!If, and when I get a discount (which is EXTREMELY rare), I damned well earned it! I buy my materials from the same suppliers, day in and day out. I spend tens of thousands of dollars a year at my suppliers, so that should make me a preferred customer. Guess what? It doesn't. I have to take the time to go pick those items out, take the time to make sure they are correct, and are what the client really needs, and then I have to spend my hard earned money purchasing it. Then I have to hope and pray some peckerhead client will actually pay me for it. I use my gas, my vehicle, and my time to do all of this. If I am EXTREMELY lucky, I get a 5% or 10% break off of an item. I must emphasize here, it is EXTREMELY rare for this to happen. I truly am sorry if I have to mark up most of my materials for clients, but I have to make a lving. I am just like you. I have to spend my money to start and finish these jobs, and I have to earn my money back. Then I have overhead to pay for, and then I must actually earn a profit (in my case, being a sole proprietor, my profit is my wages). In essence, you want me to take a wage cut so you can save a dollar or two on your new house. I can tell you right now, I ain't that hungry. Give us a break!James DuHamel
*....After giving serious thought to my above post, I must offer my apologies for anyone I might have offended. Especially the two guys with the original questions.My outburst was not really aimed at anyone in particular, just anyone that was reading.I just had a bad day, and of all things I spent most of it with a really nice client, but she wanted to "haggle" over material prices. This is basically asking me to take a pay cut, and I hate it. Again, my sincere apologies to anyone who might have been offended at my remarks.James DuHamel
*Tell ya what home boy - I have two air handlers in my house that work better than new and I got them from a rep at a great savings because the cabinet was not damaged but scratched. I certinaluy don't mean to use a used peice of equipment you dork !! A S/D unit is a new unit with a full warranty. Get a grip on your ego you pompus idiot. Are you the smartest person in the world or just the rudest ! Certainly I hope NO ONE takes any advice form someone with such an attitude. Get over yourself - grow up - and go away.
*Guys, before we get some rope and hang Cole from the nearest home depot flag, consider these options; Cole may be building the home himself, in that case I think he has a legitimate question. If you aren't in the business, you assume there is some inner circle. Second possible is that if he has a contractor (Which he probably should) maybe Cole asked how he could save a few bucks. I have little problem with a guy who will go get some large item, have it delivered and let me install it. I'll make my money on the install, if the part is bad it's his deal, not mine. I will let him know that policy ahead of time. I guess if Cole is planning on screwing his contractor though, I sure would take issue with that. Few things are more frustrating than someone with part of the story arguing pricing issues. I really don't know if clients really know what their contractor does for them. Bob, I guess maybe you got some bad info on pricing for contractors or maybe real old info. I don't think anybody is seeing 65-70% of retail. However if we have to handle it, you can't fault us for getting our piece of the pie, we have earned it. Dave
*James, while you seemed hot... out of line, not.I find it difficult to accept material I, or my fellow workers do not personally select. We've gone on in the past about green, warped, split, twisted wood; same for the minutia of electrical or plumbing. Toilet? Check. Supply tube, wax-ring, bolts? Whoops. We:a) wait for the homeowner to make the trip, while doing what for our dollars/hour.b) be off for the missing/replacement supplies for what in compensation?Your point was well made.
*All readers, especially the regular posters:I've enjoyed this web site for several months, this is my only posting. I have found the content interesting, educational and sometimes funny. I'm not a contractor but have occasionally done business with a few of them. I have done a good deal of work DIY. Please consider the following from the customer rather than the contractor perspective.I needed replacement of a sliding glass door after a break-in. I shopped the distributors and selected the exact door to be installed. Then I hired a contractor to install it. His price of the door to me was 25% higher than if I bought directly. I paid the markup. But the contractor didn't supply his expertise in door selection. And I would have handled the safe delivery of the door for the 25% additional cost. My expectations of the contractor's scope of work and responsibility were perhaps different than his. We didn't communicate well.I needed my back yard landscaped. In this case, I just wrote the check. The contractor explained in detail what he would do, but none of those details were actually reflected in his contract. He subbed out the entire job, never again visiting the work site after the contract was signed. The actual details were left to the subcontractor - who was obviously in the dark about what the contractor had told me. I think the sub did a reasonable job given his understanding of what was asked for by the contractor - but I felt cheated (and maybe the sub did as well). I would have rather worked with the actual doer of the work directly and I think my requirements would have been better met. The contractor did 2 things - he knew the sub and he sold me. What other value did he add? The sub was stuck with the callback(s) after my complaints.I needed to paint my house. The alternatives seemed to be to do it myself or have the whole job done for me. I actually ended up with a third alternative. I hired a painter by the hour and worked the job with him as his helper. For me, this turned out to be ideal. Because I enjoy the work. But I didn't (and still don't) know how to properly and efficiently paint a house. The guy I hired was awesome - he was a professional who knew his stuff. And he was able to work with me. And he had specialized painting equipment that I couldn't hope to buy or utilize. I learned a lot and once again realized that professionals are generally at a whole 'nother level than DIY guys. (Which is only reasonable given the differences in experience, knowledge, tools....) But the arrangement gave me the satisfaction of having painted my house; I know how it was done and did it with my own hands. Just writing a check wouldn't have provided this. I was able to specify my preferences in details as we worked. And the painting contractor did get a break from my retail cost of the paint - he must do a tremendous business with the paint supplier. His costs were about 60% of mine. This savings was passed to me and partially paid for the hourly charge for the painter. For me this worked well. All three jobs were technically well done. But only in the third case did a really get what I thought I was buying. And there did seem to be an inner circle.There are a whole spectrum of customers out in the world. Some want a complete service - and this is generally what contractors are geared to supply. Customers may not even realize the value added when the contractor delivers a large component and checks it out (and redelivers it if it is flawed). So contractors need to make people aware of this component of their service. There are customers who put a limited value on their own time, or have a hard time articulating their needs. These people are the potentially the "save a buck" scratch and dent guys. They may not realize the efficiencies provided by the experienced contractor; or they value their time doing it twice less highly than the contractor's costs of doing it once. Or people may actually get satisfaction in doing the work themselves (I'm sure you contractors out there can identify with that). In general, my experience in DIY is that it is easy to be overconfident and think you know more than you really do. The details and problems separate the pros from the amateurs. And it never fails, I'm always overly optimistic about the time required and I can't anticipate or quickly deal with problems that will inevitably arise. (So I have great respect for professionals who can work both well and quickly). But I always get great satisfaction when a DIY job is finally and properly completed. These factors may cause me to underestimate the actual value added by the professional. So contractors need to make their customers aware of this component of their service as well, especially if "hands-on" or details aren't important to the customer. Rather than DIY or the full contract, the middle course, where I can take part but work under the direction of the pro is for me a great alternative. But it is generally a level of service not provided by contractors. I guess this is so because this is a new and potentially difficult way for contractors to work. Or maybe it is less profitable, or maybe I'm the only one with this bent - I don't really know why. But certainly the contractor would need to work much more closely with the customer. And the risk of a bad outcome could be much higher - and I'm sure that contractors, just like customers, like to see completion of a good job. The real difficulty is one of communication and trust. Customers may work with a landscaping contractor once in their lives. They have little to go on in deciding to deliver a job to a contractor. Contractors have a hard time in dealing with the intangibles in speaking with customers. And for the middle course, they would have little or no idea of what to expect from the customer. There is friction at the interface. --Jim
*An apology of sorts: I received this email today: Jim: Wow, settle down. Just happened to read you posting. I have a dent in my 1997 Jeep Cherokee should I trade it in and get a new one for my family's protection? BTW, how many pills do you have to take each day to stay on an even keel :) My reply: Keith, It's like this: 3 months ago I started on a job that required a 1220# boiler being placed in a crawl space with almost zero headroom. In the middle of the contract the client questioned my inclusion of the exact same boiler at the contract price since he "could get a bargain" on a scratch and dent offereing for half the price I would pay for the exact same model I had quoted. The guy was running out of money and in a moment of weakness I said go for it but cautioned him about "hidden damage". To make a long story short, the boiler ended up more damaged than "scratch and dent" and all the time he was blaming me because his system was designed improperly. In the spirit of "the customer is always right" and to stop him from badmouthing me to the local community, we spent over $3,000 worth of payroll (not including my time) last week to get him heat. We ended up giving him a new boiler (the one we had ordered in for him originally) and found out the bargain boiler had been dropped and the connection between the sections was strained and was a leaker. Guess what? He says he can't afford to pay us for the replacement.(after we installed it) He went over budget. He does recognize however that he bought a pile of crap and doesn't see why we can't "trade him" and submit the "scratch and dent" for warranty? All I could do was look around the kitchen as he was explaining his predicament and wonder just whether or not the Thermador Stainless Steel Range Hood(1400cfm..he bragged?) and the Sub-Zero fridge had put him over budget? Thanks Keith. Does that Cherokee drive OK? Do you see the difference? Like I said, I would owe someone an apology. The original poster had nothing to do with my situation at hand. I obviously was over the edge with frustration and kind of used the Breaktime thread to vent. I will post your email and my reply in the thread to explain and hopefully qualify my apology. Jeff Yes, I do want to apologize to those whom I may have offended on this thread by assuming their motives. If I had it to do all over again, I would have originated the "SCRATCH and DENT" thread as a stand-alone post rather than a reply. Sincerely, Jeff
*My opinions and perspectives may obviously be too much for the current Breaktime reader "profile" to handle. All it would take is for "one" who derives their living exclusively from contracting to "nudge" me for my opinion. I would be more than grateful to expound.I walk a thin line here at Breaktime.Historically, Fine Homebuilding has been the bastion of professional builders and related trades. If perchance for one reason or another you did not subscribe to the mag, your only source to pick up a copy of Fine Homebuiding was the local lumberyard or woodworking specialty dealer. What happened?WalMart magazine rack?Home Depot checkout display?The metamorphosis of Taunton, respected publications such as Fine WoodWorking, Fine HomeBuilding and FineGardening mainstreaming into a "mindset" of Wall Street as opposed to the Purist attitude?Many more questions indeed will eventually be answered in the future. Sellout for Marketing$$$?Need I ask? Need I question?Jeff
*Mr. Sutton,First off: I am not your "home boy".Second: I am not a "dork". Have you met me?Third: Yes, I do have an ego. I don't think of myself as an idiot. I reserve the qualifications to judge you as an "idiot",I may not be qualified?Fourth: No, I am not the "smartest person in the world". Did I profess to be?Fifth: I warned you of my "momentary" attitude. Notice enuff.Sixth: What "advice" have you contributed to this forumn in the last six months? Use the "search button" and post the links, please?Seventh: I have much growing to do. If you feel that one stops growing in their lifetime at a a certain point and does not approach your "standard of growth", would you be kind enough to publish those "standards" so I will know when to "go away"?JeffPs: How about a line by line explanation. Copy and paste to the Tavern?
*Received a word from the administrator, did we?Take it as a "nudge" hit the email.
*jim jim jim, I understand exactly where you are coming from. But...In your dealings with the first two contractors, you violated the most important rules of consumer/contractor agreements. 1) You did not get your expectations/agreements in writing. My contracts all state very clearly that written agreements are all that will be considered should a problem, or complaint arise. If a contractor tells you he will do such and such, get it in writing. I go over my contracts (including all agreements and expectations) with my clients in great detail. If they do not understand, I do not let them sign the contract until they do. I have taken out all legal mumbo jumbo, and have written everything up in laymens terms. 2) You entered into an agreement with the landscaping contractor, not knowing if he, or someone else would be doing the work. Did you ever ask him? Did you specify that while he was discussing with, and agreeing with you about how you wanted the job done, that all of this should be written out and signed by both parties? You also entered into an agreement with the door contractor not knowing what each other's expectations of the completed job were. How many bids did you get for these projects? Did the contractor actually check out the frame for the door to see if it was damaged in the breakin? You left yourself wide open for these problems by not following the suggested consumer steps for dealing with contractors. As contractors, we want our jobs to go smoothly, our work to be outstanding, and our reputations to be respected. We take great pride in how we deal with our customers, how we do our work, and how we are perceived by potential/future clients. We are the contractors who get everything in writing, from the customer's realistic expectations, to contractor's ability to deliver these expectations. An expample of this would be the "matching of custom finishes". The clients may very well expect us to be able to match an exisitng custom finish to perfection. I get in writing the fact that I will get as close as possible, but I can't make any guarantees about exact matches. I make sure the client understands this, then get them to sign an agreement stating that they know the match may not be perfect, and that the only way to guarantee a perfect match is to re finish the entire surface. It becomes their choice, and if money is a factor (when isn't it?), then they will make the choice that is best suited for them. What urks me is when all of this is done, a client wants me to "go ahead and refinish the entire surface (after the fact) to get a more even color". They expect me to do this for free. I fill out the ol' Change Order form, and get them to sign it. Not all clients fail to do their homework, and not all contractors are incompetent (I say incompetent because any contractor that doesn't know the expectations of the completed job BEFORE it starts has failed to protect himself and his client. Of course, some clients change their concept of "expectations" as the job progresses, and so do some contractors). My original point was that I make part of my wages off of materials. When a customer wants to provide their own materials, I usually don't have a problem if the request is within reason. I do, however, have a problem AFTER I have gone to all the trouble of getting the material, and a client informs me that they found the same "door/window/etc..." at a cheaper price, and expects me to take mine back next time I go to the supplier. Their philosophy is that I go there all the time, so it shouldn't be any trouble. Then I just love it after I tell them that I will have to charge them for the time I spent getting the material. They get very mad, and don't understand that I spent a great deal of time, AND I have it in writing that I am supplying the material (remember the Contract?). This may seem reasonable to you, but it creates an unnecessary atmosphere of contempt for me when this happens. I am following the contract exactly as written, and they want to change their minds with no consequences. They use the ol' term "It's my house, and I'm paying for it. That makes me the boss"! In my opinion, the Contract is the "boss". Can you imagine the company that you work for telling you that you will have to take a pay cut for their next project because "the customer/client" wants to provide their own material? I already know what your reaction would be. It would be the same as mine. I built a garage a few years back for a client that had retired from the construction industry. He wanted to help do some of the work. I told him no problem, as long as we followed the contract to a "t", and he would be a worker instead of the homeowner. If I needed to consult with the "homeowner", we went inside for a cup of coffee, and discussed whatever changes/problems arose. It worked very well for both of us. I paid him the same wage that I paid the other help, and he got the job done a little cheaper. I did, however, reserve the right to fire him if he did not meet MY standards. Anyway, we can't stress enough the need to have everything you expect in writing. Unrealistic expectations are usually sorted out at this point, and real expectations are what's left.Have a good one,James DuHamel
*jim x 3Why don't you post this on the main board as it's own topic. It's going to get lost in this thread.
*Interesting post. Guess there is a whole spectrum of customers and contractors. Customers from the "Know as much or more than the contractor" to those that "don't even know what questions to ask". Contractors all the way from the knowledgeable, ethical and customer oriented to the sleezeballs who want to keep the customer in the dark and will take advantage of everything they can to make a buck.Actually the more the "professionals" can do to educate the clients the better for everyone. If knowledge, like FH, is kept private only for the insiders then the customer has every right to think there is some conspiracy afoot to take his hard earned bucks, whether that is correct or not. On the other hand, if the customer is educated by pubs like FH they will be a lot easier to deal with.Some time ago there was a thread on how folks got started int he trades. Most confessed to either being the DIY'er who got carried away or to someone who just started doing it and found a home. So, maybe there is a fear that if folks "really knew' what was going on they wouldn't want to pay the bill?
*
Does anyone have any good wholesale, web, or discounters interested in selling HVAC products. Am building a new house and need everything. Found good sources for electrical and plumbing, but no HVAC yet??? Especially interested in Bryant and Lennox