Why no return ducts in NC?
Buttkickski2
| Posted in Energy, Heating & Insulation on
I’m used to homes in MI where every room had at least one return.
Here in NC there’s no return ducts in any room, just one large return in the hallway of each floor.
Why is that?
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“Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you’re in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you.”
Replies
It's all u need
A La Carte Government funding... the real democracy.
Then why is there a 17deg temperature differential between the floor of my bedroom and the ceiling? Also, if we close a bedroom door for any time the room will get very cold..
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
The air isn't stratifying (word?) enough to even the temps.
Cut the doors bottoms to 1.5" from the floor to let the pressure out.... or install "through the wall" registers in a common wall to the hall/return room (over the door works in non-load bearing walls).
A La Carte Government funding... the real democracy.
Thanks, they're measuring just 1/2" - 3/4" now.
EricPaulsen says it won't help unless it's 6" but I think another 1" is better than nothing.
My Festool will make quick work of that job.
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
Edited 3/30/2008 9:21 pm ET by Buttkickski2
Is that a hollow core door? If so, 1" more will be just about enough to cut away the bottom rail, ruining the door.
BruceT
"Ruining the door"
Uh, real carpenters can re-install the bottom rail, flawlessly. I've done scores of them. Never considered it ruined.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.
Sphere is right on this one not to hard to restore a hole core rail bottom, when the existing is cut out all the way. I have done it several time when framers don't take the slide rail into consideration when framing for by by pass doors.Wallyo
ShootEven unreal carpenters can do that.I have..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
"Uh, real carpenters can re-install the bottom rail, flawlessly."Oops, you got me there. I've cut and blocked dozens of hollow core doors myself and then I go and make a dumb statement like that.Now that that door-bottom gap is an inch higher, I think I'll just slink on under it and go home. By the way, here in So Calif I don't think I have ever seen a return-air duct in a bedroom of any house I have been in, nor ever a thru-wall vent to the hallway.
BruceT
It doesn't ruin the door if you just glue in another piece of bottom stock. I've done it dozens of times for finishing basements with low ceilings..
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
ahh what you have is... too small a gap at the bottom of your door... must have added carpet ...
around here the floor to bottom of the door gap is your return air in many rooms
p
I've never seen one per room. Around here it's common to have one or two per floor. Our heat pump system (1400 cfm) is built like this.
Scott.
Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.â€
In MI our family room and dining room had 2 returns and 2 supply..
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
How old's the house?
5 years.
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
I don't remember when I 1st started seeing the RA vents in each room but I don't think I saw them here in GA until the last 10 years or so. It does make for a more even temp throughout the house whihc to me is a significant factor in our heat (probaly the same for the MI cold). It may not even be code but just a better practice which costs more $$$.
!!!!!!!!MONEY !!!!!!!!!
My house in OH was done with one big return and it was poorly installed. The only room that was cool in the summer was the living room where the return was. All the other rooms were hot and had bad air flow. After installing returns in each room the situation improved ten fold.
<Here in NC there's no return ducts in any room, just one large return in the hallway of each floor.>
Funny, I live and build in NC, and I've not seen your situation...does seem like it's par for your course, though.
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
I don't understand: you live and build here and haven't seen what I'm describing but you say it's par for the course?.
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
No, I said it's par for YOUR course Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
Living in a house with no RV's in each room is par for my course? WTF (your personal quote) does that mean?.
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
You complain a lot about your life in public, and usually with flawed logic, and exaggeration. Just because you're in NC, and your house doesn't have return ducts (oh wait, it turns out you do actually have one), doesn't mean all houses in NC are return ductless... get it now? If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
In my original post I wrote: "Here in NC there's no return ducts in any room, just one large return in the hallway of each floor." Which clearly says I do have one per floor, just not in every room.So what's your problem with that?And BTW, this place isn't "public", this is the internet.Get it now?
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So do you as a builder in NC think one return duct per floor is acceptable?.."Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
Edited 4/1/2008 9:20 pm ET by Buttkickski2
<And BTW, this place isn't "public", this is the internet.>Good one, belongs in the BT quotes thread fer sure.Do you remember the title of this thread you started? : <Why no return ducts in NC?>Unless there's unusual circumstances, returns are usually put in big areas, owner's bedroom, upstairs hall, and the largest upstairs bedroom.As far as your problem you can fix it.As far as you getting this problem, you did that yourself, not NC. If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
the return is really a design of the climate area. in the south the unit are mainly a/c. the family is usually in the family room and kitcern where heat is the problem. so these rooms are kept cool and comfotable. the returns are usually close to thes rooms like the a/c closet. sleeping at night, alot of units are turn offup north where heat is the primary you need the returns in the bedrooms.
Damn Snort, I'm asking if it's normal here in NC not blaming NC...isn't this forum about asking and learning? Why are you being a jerk about this?
And the title was short because you can only fit so many letters into it...is that my fault too?.
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
Guess I read you wrong. If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
I doesn't take much to slam a door.
Ever leave the windows open and here the doors slam?[email protected]
I know, but it shows something isn't right or balanced..
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
The problem is that without a return you pressurize the room and wont get heat. if there are no returns you may under cut the doors so no pressure builds up.
Maybe its okay in NC cause the weather is more mild then what we deal with in MI.
When a bedroom door is 2/3 closed it will slam shut when the furnace comes on..
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
With the furnace running, close the door to the point where it just might close.
Measure the square inches of that opening and that is roughly what you need in a jump over duct.
My response to you was to merely illustrate the point I was trying to get across.
Eric[email protected]
Thanks..
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
Or since he has a heat register in the room measure the area of that and increase that amount slightly for the return.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I would assume that would work.
I am not an expert, only conveying what I learned last friday.[email protected]
Most houses in my neck of the woods are done that way. I posted a similar question months ago, ours is a single story but the master has a cathedral ceiling and is hard to keep a good even temp in. I am planning on adding a return there. A friend in town had a similar problem to yours he had the system split via dampers and 2 thermostats, one up one down, added more returns on the up and is loving it.Wallyo
thanks.
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
I hope it helps it really worked out for him (has two bedrooms up one down) , in the summer it was so hot up there he would not even go up there, winter always cold, now with the dampers and extra return he uses it as the master bedroom, even added a skylight.Wallyo
I dont think the room would pressurize that quickly. Where's the heat at? sounds like it may be behind the door.
Nope. There's two supply ducts in the ceiling opposite side of the room from the door. When the heat kicks on, that door slams within 2 seconds..
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
The return is not in the room. It is located outside the room.
The room is DE-pressureizing.
The return that is out side the room is sucking the air out of the room.[email protected]
If the door is closed, its pressurizing.
If the door is open then you are correct.
I thought about what I stated and it was not entirely correct.
The room is pressurizing at the same time the return in the hall is de-pressurizing it.
That oughta be enough to slam the door![email protected]
Not saying anybody's lying, but that would have to be some draft. We must be talking about some high velocity CAR.
I think that is called a pressure differential .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
delta-P for short.
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
I just came from a quick indoor environment class.
What you have is classical, cheap and potentially dangerous.
We were shown a scenario where a family of two kids in a 3 bedroom ranch were all sitting around the fireplace watching TV.
Kid #1 goes to bed at 8:00 and shuts his door. Allready the return air available to the airhandler has been diminshed.
Kid #2 goes to bed at 9:00 and shuts his door. Now even less air is available.
However, think about where the air is coming from that is pouring into the supply ducts in those rooms. It is coming from and increasingly smaller source including unconditioned air sources such as unsealed duct and exterior shell leakage.
Keep that fireplace in mind too............
Now mom and dad stay up untill 11:00 and go to bed as the fire burns down to those nice glowing embers which incidentally give off the highest amount of CO.
They close the door to their room and hit he matress.
Now where do you suppose that air hanler might find the air that it needs now that all those doors have been shut?
Fireplace maybe, suck it down the chimney maybe? Think they all woke up in the morning maybe?
There are several options to put jump-over returns from your rooms to the hallway. Look into it soon.
Eric
ps: to all those that believe cutting the doors short will take care of this problem you are right. You need to cut them 6-8 inches short. I'm not making this up.
[email protected]
Great!
Good thing our fireplace is one of those safe ventless gas ones! .
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
Prior to about the 1970's lots of houses had returns for each room. After all, if each room has a heat vent why shouldn't it have a return vent. Of course if one or two big return air vents is enough for a house, one or two supply vents should be enough also.
It all has to do with money and what is easier.
roger
none of the house in the south has return ducts, just the filter door in the hallway on the a/c closet. Our door has a one inch clearnce from the floor
>none of the house in the south has return ducts,<
What's your definition of the South? Multiple RA vents ar pretty common where I'm at in GA now.
What's your definition of the South? anyplace south of the georiga / florida state line
You calling GA the land of the Yankees?
and most of florida too.
Cheap builders in the south?.
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
It's just a cheap, wrong way to install a forced air system.
There are guys in MI doing that cheap thing too. I got stuck with one up in Northern MI from a local highly recommended HVAC guy who promised me twenty times that it would work. I was foolish enough to believe him because I had never seen it done and couldn't evaluate it till I saw it.
IT DOESN'T WORK!
Here in TX, they run all the return airs similar to large central collection points too.
IT DOESN'T WORK!
It's marginal at best.
They save money on the rough installation and all the finishing grates. It might be $1000 on a 3000 sf home. It makes no sense to me. Then, the system works inefficiently at best. Forced air is rather innefficient to start with and when you cheat the system out of their return airs, it labors even more.
cheap, cheap cheap!
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I'm surprised you saw that in MI new construction I thought for sure every county wanted returns in each room..
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
We usually have a return in all rooms, with the exception of maybe a small bath. There is usually one nearby the bath door, in the hall though.
My uninformed understanding, is that in a heating climate, you want more return capacity than supply. This is to try to prevent pressurizing the home, causing leakage, and possible moisture problems in the exterior walls and roof.
I would think the ideal system would have complete pressure balance, which given the technology of forced air heating and cooling is probably not possible. Or atleast very costly and complicated.
Brudoggie
as said upthread, the lack of return ducts mean whoever installed / designed that hvac system did a hack job.
undercutting doors will work, but i hate that solution because sound insulation is important to me. 1.5 inches especially with hardwood floors you might as well just leave the doors open.
if the hvac is that wacked, i'd guess your insulation is below par as well. consider killing two birds with one stone since to add return ducts is going to require a bunch of drywall work. good luck.
It's all about the MONEY!!! Homes built in the 60's here in NY had supply and returns in each room. Without that combo it's impossible to balance the heating an cooling. I've seen the CUT the dooor down system, real attractive. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw my first 2x4 & sheetrock chasefor the HVAC.I sometimes wonder how some people sleep at nite.
I figured that but wasn't sure till now..
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."