This is the gable end of our new kitchen addition (see attachment). I had a buddy (who is a remodeling contractor) tell me last night that he didn’t think that it would pass the framing inspection. We are in Maryland and that wall is 102 1/4 high. It is 2×4 for the walls and 2×8’s for the ceiling. He didn’t give me any more detail about why it would fail but told me to do some research. I was going to put the windows in and the roof on this weekend but now I am worried I will have to tear it all out.
SO my question is, should it pass?
Thanks,
Forrest
Replies
Not much problem with the wall. There's a couple things I mught do different, like using a double sill for easier nailing when it comes time to trim it. It also helps to have cripples in line with the muntin legs in the window so that any loading from the header that transfers to those muntins will follow a direct path instead of warping the sill plate. You need to put in blocking in a horizontal line someplace. This is for firestop spacer - no more than eight feet, so in line with the sill would be easy to put in and help stabilize structurally.
All that is minor adding a few more chunks of framing.
The big problem is in the roof, not the wall. It barely shows so I could be wrong on this. I looks like just another 2x8 for the ridge instead of a structural ridge and no hardware at the joints. In construction of this type (the cathedral ceiling) the ridge carrys half the load of the roof. Using undersized materials for that purpose means that it will sag. As it does so, the walls bearing the rafters will push out away from each other.
The other item is how will you fit enough insulation in to only 7" space between the rafters?
Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks for your comments, I feel better about the wall and will make the needed improvements.
As far as the roof, it is a single 2x8. I may have made a mistake there but I was told that the rafters carry the weight down to the walls and that it was ok to use a single 2x8 for the ridge "beam". I have attached the beam to the house with a hanger and it is nailed in the top plate. The span for the beam is 8 feet. Should I tear it out and double it up?
I went looking for the info on how much insulation I would need for the ceiling and the MD code server seems to be down. I found another site that said 8 1/4 (R30) but I am not sure if that is recommended or required. If I need more I will have to build up the 2x8's.
Thanks again for the comments and help.
Forrest
You were told wrong. Half the load transfers to the walls, The other half is carried by the beam. Don't just start tearing out until you know what you need to replace it with. I suspect your required live loiad there is about 40# per sq ft bu I don'y know and nobody here does free engineering. There's too much potential liability. Your inspector will have to help you figure that out. Beam sizing is critical. LVLs are a better choice than solid lumbere and somne lumberyards provide help with sizing them. An easier and potentially better solution than tearing existing out may be to place the new beam under the existing, still transfering the weight to the header over the window via cripples.
That might mean an exposed beam detail to trim out in the finished room or you might repitch new ceiling joists to it for a lower pitch and greater room for insulation.
R-30 is the minimum reqd under energy codes in ceilings. If you stay with what you have for framing, you could do several things:
Hire it sprayed with foam and go unvented.
use R19 6" fibreglas plus sheat to the underside of the rafters with 1-1/2" foam @ R-3.5per inch for another R10.5, total 29.5 and add .5 for the roof sheathing to arrive at total R- 30.
Anybody know if it can be blown with cellulose?
Another option for re-framing would be to cobble togeether something like scissors trusses in place, re-pitching the ceiling but that's harder to engineer and would be a bugger to insulate around.
.
Excellence is its own reward!
I knew going into this that I wouldn't get things right every time, but I am having fun doing it and learning every step of the way. I do know that the information you get for free is worth every penny. I am going to talk to the inspector and see what he wants to see in there. I like the LVL route. I also wouldn't mind flattening out the ceiling under the new LVL, so that might work great under the existing ridge beam.
I really like the idea of the foam spray and will start looking at insulation contractors in my area after I get the ridge fixed.
To Piffin and everyone with comments for me, thanks for taking the time to help out. I have been lurking here for a long time soaking up information.
Forrest
Couple other things here,
I was wondering why a friend in the business might be unwilling to tell you...
But It seems he may be a better friend than you know. He may have been unwilling to tell you things that might hurt your feelings and damage your relationship. Or he may have simply been wise enough to not give away his hard won knowledge and experience for free. We've all been to that scene - where we give a little bit of free advice and then get all the blame for everything that's wrong.
I was noticing from the photo, that your studding and cripples seem to no be consistantly on a 16"oc layout. The spaces under the window are less and the one to the far right (it must be a conservative) seems more lioke 17" or so. This is a sign that it was not framed by a professional and could make the inspector look a little harder for other things to pick at.
Excellence is its own reward!
Hey Piffin,
He and I have been friends for so long that he wouldn't hesitate to tell me what is wrong. He actually helped me frame that wall. He is a new (1.5 years) home improvement contractor, so he may not have known what exactly was wrong. I have spent more than a few days over the years helping him out on his projects and he volunteered to help me out with some of the framing. I would have never asked him to do it.
Thanks again for taking time out to aswer my questions.
Forrest
i'd guess that everything except the roof frame will pass.. piffen is right on about the structural ridge... you may be able to insert a structural ridge right under the 2x8 ridge without cutting anyting out... the ridge will have to be carried by the header in the gable end and the hanger at the house so they will be your weak points..
a new structural ridge under the existing will also allow you to build down your rafters for more insulation room and still maintain your "cathedral ceiling" without a flat area..Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
One thing we can't really tell in a picture is dimensions. It might be helpful to include a brightly colored yardstick, and be careful to shoot square on and from as far away as possible, zooming to a long focal length.
-- J.S.
Sorry, that pic was shot before the first cup of coffee this morning. Good thought though. The center is 102 1/2 H. The entire addition is 10dx14w
Forrest
Here I am again. Some foilk faced foam board is up to almost R-7 per inch so an inch would do it with fibre glas between rafter.
If you go with sprayed foam, it'll be expensive but it's very worthwhile. It makes a VB at the same time, it's quiet too.
A large portion of the cost on a smal job is setup so it would be good to have him do the walls too, if you decide on foamed in place..
Excellence is its own reward!
Would that go on top of the roof sheathing or sandwitch it between sheathing? The cost of the spray in might be to high for the project. My wife is killing the budget with the kitchen cabinets.
Forrest
The foam is sprayed on to the inside of the sheathing. I figure it at about seventy cents per board foot here. It gives you R7 per inch .
Excellence is its own reward!
2 king studs on the header for the window opening would also make it bullet proof, blocking at the seams in the osb, along with what Piffin stated
From what I can tell, the ridge is the same dimension as the rafters. A plumb cut is always longer than a square cut so the ridge is usually one size (depending on pitch) bigger than the rafters. This ensures that the rafters have full bearing along the plumb cut. It doesn't have to be structural (when you have ceiling joists, your situation might be different) just something to keep the rafter from experiencing a shear load along the plumb cut.
Probably a minor thing concerning the roof, Piffin's comments are more important.
Call the inspector before doing anything else.
I am a Maryland contractor also and have done this numerous times on homeowner started or contractor walk away jobs. They are much easier to deal with in the end if you allow their input now.
For what it's worth
I was thinking that a call to the inspector might be in order but didn't want to call to early for a framing inspection. I think I will call them first thing Monday morning. I want to make sure this is right.
Thanks for the input.
Forrest