Anyone else? I’m talking all the time. No matter the situation.
I do mainly interior work (kitchens, baths, trim, tile, etc.) gut to trim. All by my lonesome. The only time help is needed is when something is humanly impossible to lift and/or get through a door way or upstairs by one person, say a cast iron tub or a pantry/wall oven cabinet.
It’s been old for about 5 years, but I’m still doing it. Setting tools up, lugging the material, running back out for that other tool you thought you wouldn’t need, rapping the tools up, cleaning the mess up.
I think it’s time to hire help.
By the way, anyone following my logo take 2 discussion, still working on it.
Replies
Give it some time, you're still young.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I don't feel young. Bad back, bad knees.
Well, the 20+ years of playing hockey could have something to do with it too.
That's it in a nutshell.
I'm 25 yrs older than you are.
I didn't play hockey.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Hookey?
Hickey?Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Jeff,
I didn't get up and look.
Whatever the spelling is for HOOK - EEEE
Skipping school.
Sure, you could get run over by a bus tomorrow morning.
anybody,
Working alone with all the resposibility and all that is not an exercise in futility. It's hard, but so are alot of things. Use your head and it becomes "easier". B
Board is still board.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
;)
Just tryin to stay in touch by responding.
Tryin' to find time for the Star or Idiot.
SOOOOOooooo Busy.
I think I'm booked on River Rd. ( on the other side) for Feb 9-23 and March 8- 24, which puts me out your way.
Oh, no busses out here in Oregon. We didn't do it. I'll have to get hit by a farm implement. - ;)
Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Either one time period should autta work.
I should be here abouts except for a week in BG around the second week in Feb. You 've got the number. I'll let babes know we might be on the way. And I'll give Todd the word too. I passed him in his truck a week ago. He had blinders on.
Most any friday after work for the Idiot, tho we are going to the Toledo Club this friday...............seafood buffet............yowza.
And there's threats to upgrade our entertainment temperature by attending the Art Museum's It's Friday.........one of these days. Change of venue.
Call me when the mood strikes you.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I had blinders on??? I must have been thinking about the Star!!!
I also have been working down your way on River Road for the last 5 weeks or so. I will be wrapping up that job on Thursday then on to the next one.
Hope you are staying busy....
Go back to your own neighborhood.
Damn immigrants, take the jobs, crowd the bars and ATTEMPT to take our women.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
It's ok, I'm over in Sylvania stealing his work. Already had their women.
You just need to cross the river and steal mine.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
I haven't turned to that page in the map book. Wouldn't know how to navigate those diagonal roads.
You've got too many 25mph roads over there.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
""Oh, no busses out here in Oregon. We didn't do it. I'll have to get hit by a farm implement. - ;)"" My funny story about Oregon and Oregon. Many years ago my parents moved to MarbleHead Peninsula and my brother to near Toledo. I was living in the State of Oregon at the time. For some reason I cannot rememebr I had occasion to call one their county offices about something.
Told the clerk who answered the phone I was calling from Oregon expecting that she would understand it was a long distance call. Time passes, , more time passes, still more time passes while I sit on hold. I finally hang up and recall, explain what happened and the clerk informs me rather huffily that I hadn't made myself clear, that she thought I meant Oregon, Ohio , not Oregon as in the State!. Up until then I had never heard of Oregon Ohio, but ever after that when calling Ohio and having to tell them where I am from I always make certain to explain it is the state not the town.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I've had that happen the opposite way, get some goofy looks, then realize.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Your name isn't Bob Clarke is it?
More like Mark Howe.
Don't hire 'til you're slower than the explaning how you want something done.
Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
Plus it is really hard to find someone who does not just stand around waiting for the next insturction rather than to look, think, and then act before you have to say anything. Even if they don't always anticipate your next move correctly each time at least they are doing and not standing. Really hard to fine people who think and are worth a buck.
i have, except for one day only when a costomer needed a project done the next day, no and if or buts and I couldn't get it done by myself. so i called in a friend and we got it done fast.
"I'd rather be a hammer than a nail"
And you sir are 44 yrs younger.
Don't play hockey.
nor hooky
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Edited 1/21/2008 11:12 pm ET by calvin
hoe do you know i don't play hockey or hooky.....
no Im only joking, dont do either
"I'd rather be a hammer than a nail"
You guys that don't play hockey are missing out on the coolest game on ice!Have a good day
Cliffy
Edited 1/22/2008 9:59 am ET by cliffy
are missing out on the coolest game on ice!
right after ice fishing...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I'll leave the ice in myscotch, or in the beer cooler.
You're too set in your ways. The first seven helpers would last a week, maybe 2 before they quit or you fired them.
Gord
Your reading my mind. It would probably drive me crazy trying to converse with someone all day.
Your reading my mind. It would probably drive me crazy trying to converse with someone all day.
If you have enough work who's got time to talk?
Personally, I like to teach whatever I know to those who understand and work the heck out of those who can't.
Gord
Derr,
I work solo. It can be hard, but the freedom has been worth it. On rare occasions I will partner with another solo guy and do a larger project. I mostly don't want to be tied to keeping a helper busy full time. And I'm a picky perfectionist, too.
Working alone definitely limits what I can take on safely/comfortably. It's all about choices and tradeoffs.
Bill
Clamps are cheaper than employees.
Been solo. Been where I had 40 guys working for me. Been where I had 1. Like that solo. So much nicer on the sanity.
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
I know a guy who works solo... but he has a couple older retired guys that he can call on... seems to work for him when he just needs help for a a day or a few days... told me he found his best one drink'n coffee at mcdonalds... older guy that basicly had zero do to... says the guy would work for lunch just to have something to do...and to have something new to talk about the next day with the other old coffee drinkers...
maybe not first choice for a strong back... but sometimes when you just need another set of hands... it might even be considered community service...
good luck
p
Maybe I should troll McD's for good labor... that 25 cents senior coffee brings em in from all over! LOL.
I work all by myself. Had a full time employee for a while. The OP should know it's a much different game keeping your helper busy, paying him, and trying to make a profit on top of it, than flying solo. While I miss the camaraderie, there are less headaches, and my time is my own, something which once spent, cannot be retrieved.
Expert since 10 am.
Always have worked solo, always will.
Far fewer headaches, far less pressure, much less responsibility. I can work when I want and cut out when I feel like it. All my attention goes to the job, none to supervision and remediation. People know when they hire me that I work my way at my pace; they tolerate it because they get my attention to all the details and like what I leave behind. Been quite a few years since I've actively pursued work.
I've got twenty years of being the target in the net that you guys bounced the pucks off. I deal with the hangover from that by changing the focus of my business to smaller, lighter, higher value work most of which is shop-based rather than site based. I'm headed towards custom furniture building after having moved into cabinetry from construction and renovation. Got my shop tooled up and paid for over the years for the type of work I intended on doing in the next phase so I'm sitting pretty now.
Edited 1/22/2008 12:48 am by observer
"I deal with the hangover from that by changing the focus of my business to smaller, lighter, higher value work most of which is shop-based rather than site based."Exactly. That's where I was headed, but the biz has got me going in a bit of a different direction. I'll always have my shop though. That sounds great what you're doing!
The change isn't a straight line, more like a trend. This spring, I've got an addition, cabinetry and finishing for another coffee bar and 20 Craftsman armchairs to build. The rougher end slowly falls off the list and the finer end slowly increases. I just keep the plan in the back of my mind and the direction seems to follow it.
I'm alone most of the time ( 85%).
The other times I either pick up from the network or help someone else in it.
Have a helper right now, trying to bring him into the network, plusses - minusses, don't know which is better. I do know that I will not actually hire anyone again - ever.
Got ten years on you, but I don't think I'll even live long enough to be as old as Cal.
Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
All by myself. Never any employees.
I'll sub out DW finishing, HVAC, maybe roofing, and plumbing and electrical if I have to.
Forrest - not lonely, now that I have BT
I've done it about 80% of the time for almost 30 years. For some of those years I worked in the union as a plasterer, and for a few years as a job foreman for a residential builder. I do love certain aspects of solo work, others I don't. I'm really not doing it much anymore. I work now with somebody who has young help and mechanics. I am also moving into the administration and sales end. Also am mentoring and teaching the younger ones that come along.
I will work as a solo sub on big jobs and that's fine.
Keeping your body and sanity while being the sole worker involves the type of work you choose to do. If it's lighter stuff like trim work, finishing etc involving little or no rigging, then it's fine. But you're telling me that you do the soup to nuts thing on kitchens, baths & other reno projects, then no....that's silly. You simply don't make the money you would if you hired out the subs or labor help and put a mark up on it. This running around and setting up, and running out for materials and lugging the materials yourself is nothing but an exercise in futility and you're pizzing your money away. I know. I did it for years.
The other thing is your body. Mark my words. You WILL burn yourself out doing it this way. I know. I did it for years.
The lighter stuff....fine. I still do that from time to time. I love being by myself. I play my classical music or jazz, and nobody's around, I work at my own pace, it's really heaven. But the running around and hauling materials and demo waste, and sinks and toilets, going back out for materials or stuff you forgot...well, you know that image of the dollar bill with wings on it flying away?
'nuff said.
I worked for years alone and enjoyed that mentally.
Then I started getting jobs too big to do alone and hired and using subs.
My system has developed to the point that I have a couple large jobs going on where I can use the subs and stop by for a couple hours a day to iron things out, inspect, etc and I go off to handle smaller handyman type jobs alone.
That lets me work alone which is good for me, but the stress of management and running more than one ob is way up there on the healthometer warning light.
So I am planning to get out of contracting and do home inspections and design to be alone again and easy on the old body.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I am planning to get out of contracting
Better for you - but a loss to your community!View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Yep, I work alone. It works out most of the time, but there are times I take on bigger projects where it would be great to have someone else hump 30 bags of debris up the stairs, and bring the drywall sheets down. And to do some of the more tedious parts of the jobs.
I'm 43, and after a few long days in a row, my back and knees aren't too happy with me.
Also, when I do larger jobs, like a bathroom or partial basement, I end up getting a lot of calls. I have to tell them I can put them on the list and get to them in a few weeks. Some people are OK with that, some need the work done sooner, so I lose out. But I don't really lose out, because I end up staying busy. Just miss out on a potential new customer, and all the repeat business and referrals that would come from that.
I wouldn't want a full timer. I'd hate to have to try to keep them in work. But I am beginning to think about a part timer (I'm in the process of buying a house to flip, and it would take too long to complete all by my lonesome.) Problem is, what kind of person can you hire part time to do the grunt work? Seems like good people would already have full time jobs.
Ideally (in my dreams) I'd find a guy who wants to learn, and who has the mental capacity to learn. I wouldn't mind training them on the job, bringing them along. If they are the right person, then I could expand my bisiness. But, I know how difficult it is to get good people.
Pete Duffy, Handyman
I work alone more often than not. I had a payroll for a couple years and made less $ than working alone and teaming up with other solo guys when needed.Now I have an interesting situation, I have a part-time helper who is a college student. He wants to learn carpentry and his dad wants him to learn the trade too. His dad views it as a valuable apprenticeship, like college...so the kid is on his Dad's payroll--not mine.I get help when I need it...all I do is buy lunch, the youngster learns something. This was the fathers' idea (very wealthy building owner). There is a string attached, of sorts...I do give projects on his buildings a priority.Interesting.
You've got the ticket.
A boy that wants the knowledge at no cost other than priority seating in your theatre.
Now that is a nice situation.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
absolutely!Just don't let him feed his hands into a planer or TS
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I should get something in writing about liability. Dad could seem like the nicest guy around until junior gets hurt.I don't expect any trouble or I would not have accepted the arrangement...but you never know.
That oak column job in the old IH tractor factory is in the Dads' building...no budget...just do the work and bill for it. Nice guy who values the trades. He has several more projects for me...so life is good.The apprentice thing is nice, good kid.I'll get that pic for you today or tomorrow,Bass
That would be really nice to have.Pete Duffy, Handyman
So far, it is good for all.
My father called the 'part timers' he hired summers for his painting business "PDB's"
"Poor, dumb bastards."
Those are the kind you need!
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/articles/working-alone-replacing-helping-hands.aspx
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
DW pretty much insists these days that someone be at least within hollering distance when I'm on a roof or 40 ft up in a tree.
Other than that, my machines keep me company?
Derr,
I like alone. I've been on crews up to 10 people. Too many cooks, so to speak.
As a business owner, I've never had more than 1 other carpenter in the field, besides myself.
My current employee, was killed in a freak car accident, recently. This was a big loss to my company, not to mention his family. I've been doing what I can to help them out. I don't think that I ever want to find myself in this position again.
So now it's just me. The economy here is pretty bad, so not having to keep another family fed is a bit of a relief.
I'm fortunate to have a few smaller GC's that I can call on for help, when needed. This is usually only a few days, here or there.
I've recently met a young fellow, who loads trucks for a freight company, for a couple of hours, early each morning. Then he spends his afternoons skiing, and ski instructing. I may ask him, if he would like to come on part time, after the snow melts.
Good help is hard to find, and flexible help is even harder.
Good luck!
Brudoggie
The only problem with what you're doing is that you are truly self employed. If you stop or if something happens to you, you're screwed. I started subbing things out and its been great.
I love doing bathrooms. I personally work maybe 1.5 days and make at least $2000 per bathroom.
I used to do it all too. I found that by not subbing I was not inly killing myself but I was not moving in the direction I wanted to go. I have assembled a great team and we can deliver better product in a shorter time.
Gotta think towards the future.
I enjoy doing what I do but you gotta be realistic.
Yes.
I think it's probably because I'm such an a$$hole to work with...
No, but I do like to control it all.
What the others have said about specializing is ringing true with me. Shuffling all the tool and material 'systems' is a real pain.
The company I work for isn't directly in construction, but we have a pastor we can bring in to help when needed. He started his own church and was looking for a little extra income while he built the congregation.
Pastors aren't typically the most technically minded people. I've learned a few times you need to be careful not to assume they are good at math or problem solving. However, they are generally honest and flexible during the work week and polite to your customers. If we need him for a longer spell on a project, he occasionally takes off for a funeral or won't work a full week so he can prepare a sermon.
If you just need an extra set of hands or someone to run some errands you may swing by a small church after McD's.
Just a thought.
Can't swear or tell carpenter jokes on the job then, tho... major drawback.
:-)
Depends on the pastor...
Guess so!
The previous thread--Pastors not being so math minded...
Ours was a gentle giant-might have been a math mastermind for all I know but wasn't good on the 'common sense' front. On a canoe trip when I was a kid he and I were the only ones around camp and he threw the remainder of a metal aerosol can of insect repellent into the fire to dispose.
I threw him a quick, "OH NO!" glance and he grew worried and asked what to do.
"Get back!" I said.
"BBOOOOOOOOMMMMM!"
Embers raining down all over... all the kids came flying back to camp to see what the big boom was.
Pastor cried.
Man there are some more stories from that trip!
One day he was supervising backfilling of an excavation (keeping track of loads/tons moved for billing). Called me to tell me we were going to be several hundred yards short from the backfill pile. I had been there the day before, and figured we'd be about 50 yards short which would be completed when building excavations were completed elsewhere on the property.
Discussed on the phone a bit, couldn't make sense of it. Drove an hour (one-way) to the site to see what was going on. He had measured the hole in feet and backfill pile in yards, then directly compared the numbers.
I was glad to still have the dirt I thought we did. And for a T&M contract.
Without one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Calculated-Industries-4065-Construction-Calculator/dp/B0007Q3RGQ
I think I might could have to give up the hammer for the cloth!
I work alone. Gives me better odds at employee of the month :)
I am working on a retired Auto Body Shop owner's house. We were visiting about businesses in general. He was of the opinion that working alone and trading labor with friends was one kind of ballgame. Hiring employees was a different one.
He felt if you hired one guy, you should commit yourself to steady growth. If you have one employee, you might as well grow into having several.
What does everybody think?
craig..... how do you run a business without employees ?
i've always had employees since i started in '75... except for when the Credit Unions closed in RI in the late '80's
anywhere from 5 to one
i prefer me & three
but in this economy i'm running me & two
when i go away for a week... the job keeps going...
when i want to take a vacation for two weeks, the job keeps going
if i need to go meet with another customer, the job keeps going
working with employees , managing people... is just another skill
when i had no employees, when i stopped , the job stopped... when i went on vacation, the income stopped, if i went into the hospital, there was no one to carry on the business
having and keeping good employees is part of what i do..... an important partMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Depending on the size of the jobs you do, I think the best number of employees for a small residential reno & builder is 3. Two of them have the know how to do it all, but they don't need to. One guy can run a job and keep it going while the other sells and does most of the paper work and hops into the hands on at times. Then there should be a good mechanic and one good labor-helper. Then like you said, you can spell one another. When the jobs get bigger, that's when the subs do most of the work. For instance, we don't do much of our own new framing, sheetrocking/taping or even insulation anymore on any sizable jobs. It's just not worth it. There are always other things going on, especially in renovation.Key is good subs. They can be like gold.
I hear what you're saying. I always think about that when I've been sick or when I've run my tail off talking to people about jobs and realize I was busy but didn't bring in a dime.My concerns about hiring would be:Finding the right guy.Wondering if I have the right personality to be the boss.Worrying about someone else being dependent on me finding the job and coming up with the paycheck.Any insights?
i would guess in 34 years i've had 23 - 30 different guys on the payroll... i still see a lot of them.... some still come to our Christmas party
some i've helped with job recommendations
currently one has been with me since '99 and one since '04
guys have stayed as little as one day... and as long as 5 years ( other than the two above )
i'm not the same boss i was when i was 30..... so..i'd guess that i've learned a few things as i went
anyways.... think about working for you... what's fair?
what's expected ?
can you inspire confidence that you can get the work and run a company ?
would you like to go to work for your company ?
if you can answer yes to those two... then getting good people will happen
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Good advice. Thanks
Hey Derr82, I've been working solo for years and almost can't stand it when I have to have others in on a job. I get the hankerin once in a while to hire somebody and then spend more time teachin them to do things than if I would've done it myself