Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 01, 2000 02:11pm | #19

   *
   I'm about to build some cabinets using Melamine for the casework. I've noticed that even the factory edges are chipped out, and I'm wondering what is the best way to get a clean edge. Is it as easy as taping off the cut before sawing, or should I cut within 1/8" and finish off with a router and a straight-edge?

   Any other tips will be appreciated!

   Thanks in advance, John

1. 
   Guest_ | Feb 19, 2000 10:43am | #1

   *JRS, really the best way is with a scoring saw made for cutting two sided laminates. Its a tablesaw with a small blade in front of the main blade spinning the opposite direction than the main blade. Its set just high enough to score the melamine on the bottom side before the main blade cuts all the way thru. But they are very expensive and I dont have one.The sheets are sized 49"x97" to give you room to clean up the factory edges. The router and straight edge would work fine but would be a little slow. When I've needed reall clean edges on both sides I've had pretty good luck setting the blade on the table saw to cut a little over halfway thru and cutting one side then flipping the peice over and cutting the rest of the way thru, again a little slow. Several companys make a blade especially for melamine with a different tooth style called a triple chip grind thats supposed to leave minimal chipping on the bottom side. I havn't used one so I cant say for sure. Usually I just use a good sharp blade and oreint the parts to hide the minor chipping [down on floors, out on ends etc.] Chuck, PS experiment with your blade height until you get the least amount of chipping on the bottom, the angle that the teeth meet the sheet makes a big difference. I dont use much melamine so hopefully someone else will have better advice.

1. 
   Guest_ | Feb 20, 2000 12:54am | #2

   *JRS,I have had good luck with a melamine blade, can't remember the brand, rubbed off long ago, but It cost about $100 back in '91. You cut upside down with this blade and it leaves a very clean edge.MD

1. 
   Guest_ | Feb 20, 2000 05:06am | #3

   *John,

   You would ask the pain in the ass question ;-}.

   Chuck & MD, both have given you good advice. A table saw with a scoring blade is nice to have if you don't have one but, is a real pain to adjust if you do have one. The reasons being that the kerf made by the scoring blade has to exactly match that of the cutting blade. The line of travel of both blades also has to exact. If either of these adjustments are off you get chip-out.

   The real question is how can you minimize the chip-out to and expectable level, at least that's the way I see it. The first might be to use an 80 tooth carbide triple chip as Chuck has mentioned. I use one with good results. I also use an 80 tooth HATB double sided veneering blade with even better results. The attack angle or "rake" angle of the blade also plays a large role in how well it will cut. You can adjust this angle be raising and lowering the height of the blade, I've found that the blade cuts better when it is "higher" then lower.

   Some other options might be to first "score" the cut, something like Chuck stated but, by just raising the blade about a 1/4" and making the pass then raising the blade to full height and then making the final cut. Or you can support the cut with an 1/8" piece of hardboard under the melamine. Lastly, you might want to make a "zero" clearance insert for your table saw, this will definitely help reduce chip-out. Good luck.

   Joseph Fusco View Image© 1999"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle

1. 
   brisketbean_ | Feb 20, 2000 05:41am | #4

   *JRS; I just say NO, to melamine, I hate the stuff and think it is a junk product, I make a comment such as, yeah I could use the stuff if you want trailer-house quality cabinets.If you have to use the stuff, make sure you isolate the casework from floors, it goes to nothing when encountering water accidents, dishwasher overflowing etc. I have used in the past like Joe mentioned,a zero clearance throat plate for the tablesaw, only I make a throat plate that is proud of the table at the point of the cut, keeping the sheet tight to the plate at the point of the cut.

2. 
   Guest_ | Feb 20, 2000 10:17am | #5

   *I agree with Mr. Bean,Forget the stuff and use plastic lam on plywood.Ed. Williams

3. 
   Guest_ | Feb 21, 2000 11:26am | #6

   *I would go with the laminate on ply depending on location. I don't have much problem with the Melamine when I use a sharp blade and especialy if I pre-score. If the edge is not seen i do not worry much. If the inevitable happens and I get chip out I use a color matched Laminate repair kit and the chips disappear.

4. 
   Guest_ | Feb 22, 2000 07:52pm | #7

   *Melamine is here to stay. If you want to compete or your share of the market, you'd better get a handle on working with it. Lots of folks see it as an upgrade for cabinet interiors and by refusing to offer it as an option you run the risk of alienating customers, or appearing locked into "old ways". As for the chipping, there are very few places where both sides are exposed in casework. I always plan the chips for the outside of the box. There is also Melamine repair (kind of like real thick paint) available, but it takes many coats to build up. Another idea for you folks who hate melamine is vinal thermofused to plywood. It's a little more expensive than melamine, but you get your plywood core to work with. Decent compromise.

5. 
   Guest_ | Feb 23, 2000 09:03am | #8

   *Thanks all,The melamine in the cabinets is spec-they are for a classroom, it was bid them that way or forget it. I have seen enough homeowners rave about their bright easy-to-keep-clean melamine cabinet interiors to know it has to be a part of my repetoir(sp?) sooner or later, and this job gives me a good chance to try it out.These cabinets will be site built, and will have oak face frames and flat panel doors. I'll let you guys know how it turns out. Keep the tips coming! John

6. 
   Guest_ | Feb 25, 2000 05:28am | #9

   *Ditto to Jim. It's a great product in it's place. I use a melamine blade from FS Tools and a zero clearance insert (a lot of the guys with the monster saws w/scoring still use a melamine blade), and if there are any chips, they go on the outside. You can minimise the chipping to some degreee simply by buying a really good quality melamine; they are sold by 'basis weight'; 80 g (80 g of melamine p/square metre) up to 140 g. 100 is minimum for good work, 120 is better, and I would be using 130 g if I could get it here. It does make a difference. If you are trying to build really pro looking melamine boxes on site (with a contractors saw maybe?) I would look into outsourcing the boxes from one of the big companies that can put a box together for a very good price (they advertise in FH), assemble them and install them. Even the bigger shops do this when they have overflow. It isn't that easy to get a good, clean, square cabinet in melamine, especially on a job site (that said, I built one kitchen in the basement of the house with a sidewinder and a selection of straightedges and guides, all melamine boxes.).

7. 
   Guest_ | Feb 25, 2000 06:29am | #10

   *I bought a melamine blade, and as for the "basis weight", I had no idea there was such a thing when I ordered it. It's delivered and ready to go, whatever the weight(in my ignorance, and with my luck it's probably 80). Monday, I'll give it heck!John

8. 
   Guest_ | Feb 25, 2000 11:54pm | #11

   *Attaboy,Good luck with the project. If the blade does a good job, let us know, and what brand--always good to know what's working, even if it's only like, uh, paint or sawblades!MD

9. 
   Guest_ | Feb 26, 2000 02:42pm | #12

   *Joe, It sounds like you are describing the conical type scoring blades, the height of which has to be set just right, as well as left to right to operate optimally. They are more difficult to set than the split version. Adjusting the kerf thickness with this latter type is simplicity itself by adding or removing shims. Left to right adjustment (on my saw anyway) is also simple with a lever mounted outside the machine. Maximum set up time, if required to adjust the scoring saws shimming, takes less than five minutes. Otherwise it's raise the unit, check left and right adjustment with a few test cuts, and away to go. Maybe two minutes. The other important adjustments of course are to have both the rip fence and sliding cross cut table set up correctly, which is a necessity anyway, regardless of the use of a scoring saw.I understand that on some saws these adjustments are fiddly requiring Allen keys and the like being poked through awkward holes in the table top. Outside my experience I'm afraid, so I can't comment. The split style scoring saws are (I think) an European pattern, therefore metric, but many can be converted to Imperial sizes to fit American machines. One very distinct advantage of the split type over the conical type of scoring saw is that the edge of the cut material is b truly square to the face, therefore joint lines are tight. Others have already alluded to the fact that it is usually (but not always) just one side of the cut that needs to be spelch free, so no need for me to go into that one, except to say that this sometimes allows me to omit shimming out the scoring saw to match the main saw blade, and saves me a couple of minutes set up time. I haven't cut much melamine faced board in yonks, maybe 10-15 years, but I do lay up veneers on grounds, and the spelch problem is essentially the same, particularly when cross cutting.The split scoring saw might be worth considering for other woodworkers that have scoring capabilities on their saws. I prefer the pattern for the reasons mentioned above.

10. 
    Guest_ | Feb 26, 2000 03:02pm | #13

    * Sgian,

    I use both, the conical type and split. Each have their associated "short comings". As you state, the split needs to be shimmed and aligned, the conical raised, lowered and aligned. Most guy's like the shimmed because they feel as you do that the setup time is faster than with a conical cutter.

    Me. . . I like to use whatever one was just sharpened ;-}

    Joseph Fusco View Image "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." -- Plato

11. 
    Guest_ | Feb 28, 2000 05:50am | #14

    *With respect Ed,How can you possibly suggest that p-lamming all the exposed surfaces in a cabinet carcass is a viable alternative? Material costs alone for plywood, p-lam and adhesives would make the project much more expensive than Melamine. And then the additional labor? You might be spoiled by some deep pockets like Jerry Jones.FS tools Model #LM6251 80 tooth ATB blade is exceptional at cutting melamine's chipfree. Canucks make those blades in Canada. Told you they could do something right. The other part of the equation is a saw that does not vibrate. Here is a place for those old window weights if you own a Contractor's type saw. Put an old crate on the saw's undercarriage. Now fill the crate with old weights. Notice that your saw no longer moves while you push sheets across it? the harmonic vibration frequency will be lower also. Course now that I've got a 3hp Unisaw that is not necessary.Use a sliding table for all crosscutting. Wear a respirator when you work with the melamine as the quanity of fine dust is dangerous to your health. Been in the shop all day working with this crap myself. I'll be at it again tomorrow.joe d

12. 
    Guest_ | Feb 29, 2000 04:49am | #15

    *Well guys, I bought a CMT 80 tooth ATB Melamine blade($85.00) from Viking Tool. My table saw is a DeWalt portable. The blade and saw worked beautifully. I don't have a panel cutter, so I used a circular saw and guide for the cross cuts. I taped them before I cut.With a little planning, I was able to bury or hide the less than acceptable cuts. Next time I will make a panel cutter, or better yet, use Adrian's suggestion to use an outside company to make the case components. That is if time is not of the essence, as it seems to be on most jobs.Tomorrow I get to start the enjoyable part of this job. The oak face frames and door frames.John

13. 
    Guest_ | Feb 29, 2000 06:38am | #16

    *John, I did a commercial type kitchen for a church out of melamine a few months ago and bought my case parts from an outside company. It really worked great, everything was labeled and even had preglued dowels that only required misting with water before assembly. In addition to the dowels everything was pre bored for confirmat screws except finished ends which were skinned with laminate. So the only place I had to use clamps were the cases with finished ends. I thought the price was very reasonable, everything milled, banded and drilled for hardware and adjustable shelves for around three hundred bucks more than the raw material would have cost me. The only drawback was shipping but that probably wouldnt be as big a problem for you, I live in very rural Oklahoma and got the parts from a place in Iowa. Anyway its a very viable alternative. I'll have to try one of those blades for the little bit of melamine I use.Chuck

14. 
    Guest_ | Feb 29, 2000 06:36pm | #17

    *Hey Chuck, are you in Eastern Ok?

15. 
    Guest_ | Mar 01, 2000 02:19am | #18

    *Yep MD, I'm about sixty miles east of Tulsa and twenty five miles west of the Arkansas line. Small town called Tahlequah. Acording to the tourist info I'm in the heart of "Green Country".Chuck

2. 
   Mark_Helling | Mar 01, 2000 02:11pm | #20

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   I was at Home Depot and saw pre-fab cabinet boxes made from melamine that you assemble yourself then attach face frames or frameless doors. They were pre-drilled with shelf peg holes. Might save you a lot of time and cutting.