I recently bid a job where the client wanted to move a toilet from one side of the room to the other. He had his own plumber and I was going to come in after and make it look real pretty.Everything looked fine as I layed my tile, but when I went to set the toilet, it wouldnt fit. I thought it might just be me…you know, maybe was doing something wrong. But after several attempts I decided to measure the backset. It was 11 inches for a 12 inch toilet. I promised my client it would be done for his party on Sunday (it was SAT), and I was going to make the deadline…without a hitch. Now, I thought to myself,..”I could just lengthen that left slot in the flange and I bet I could get it in there, but the bottom of the toilet and the flange hole would not line up” So I decided not to do it and explained to the client that his plumber made a boo-boo and I didnt want to set a toilet that might be inclined to stop up. I told the client his best bet was to buy a 10 inch rough in toilet. He wasnt happy!!
Monday rolled around and the plumber tells my client that i didnt know what I was talking about and that I should mind my own business. The client called me that mornign and said the plumber came over and set the toilet “no problem”. Sure as hell when I went to check it out I found pvc “swirlies” on the floor, where they drilled out the flange to elongate the slot. I talked to the plumber later and he says he sets ALL of his toilet flanges at a 11 inch backset. ..what do you think…Was I paranoid and should have set the toilet on that Saturday or did I do the right thing.
Replies
Plumber is an idiot, he was trying to save his own brittle ego. Best thing is you did the right thing and can't be blamed when the thing backs up, or clogs real good.
plumb's right...yer wrong......didn't ya know most all materials are manufactured to the hightest standards at the factory....but just a hair off.....so lotsa drilling, reconfiguring, and adjusting in the field is necessary......
instead of taking the time to measure right and put it where it should be?
Man, next yer gonna want the damn thing to flush!
You did the right thing...and I'd let the customer know to not be too surprised if bad things even happen with that toilet...to document what was done...and to hang onto the paperwork. Maybe the rest of the stack was lose enough to be shoved forward an inch without racking anything else. Might be fine...but I wouldn't wanna be the guy that promises it will.
Jeff
.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......
You did the right thing. Sit back and be proud of yourself for having your client's best interests at heart whether he/she is knowledgeable enough to realize it or not. You apparently have character while the plumber in question apparently does not.
The least he could have done was admit his mistake instead of trying to make you look bad. I've had similar situations on my hands with other contractors and in the end, it just isn't worth getting worked up over. You know what the truth is and that's all that's truly important.
We've run into a couple of situations over the years where the flange was off by 1/2" and tearing things apart would've been mighty expensive. They make an offset flange PVC adapter that you can squeak about that 1/2" out of and so we used them on those two occasions. They worked fine and no problems have ever been reported back to us, but we still don't like to use them. There's no way you or he could've safely gotten an inch out of that adapter either.
>>he says he sets ALL of his toilet flanges at a 11 inch backset
I have to quote Bill Gates' famous saying here, "That's the most f------ stupidest thing I have ever heard"
Why would he set the flanges at 11" routinely knowing that he has to drill out the flange when he sets the toilet.
Tom
Point your client to this thread!
You know, it's almost tempting to pull the toilet and show the homeowner just how correctly this flange was placed, and the quality and craftsmanship that went into modifying the flange.
Then again...it's an installation that I wouldn't want to touch with the proverbial 10-foot pole.
11" is not even metric and a 10 " rough in toilet would have been the correct way to go after the wrong pipe rough in was installed. You did right by letting the "plumber" (loose term) install the toilet. I also don't believe he always set at 11".
I'm looking through a kohler book rightnow, and it looks like a third of their stools would go in at 11", for instance, a ''Wellworth" "Highline", and "Rochelle" show that there's 1" clearance behind the tank. They'd be slammed up against the wall, but it looks like they'd fit.
Peace Pot Microdot
All roughouts of toilets must, repeat must be 12". I know of no modern toilet which can accept anything less.
Long ago, when high boys and pull chain toilets were common, rough outs were 10" or so, because there was no tank on top of the bowl.
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1927
If the toilet is going to have use by a handicapped person, you want at least 12" backset because the rear wheels on some of the rolling toilet chairs will bump the wall behind the toilet before the chair is centered over the toilet bowl.
While this is not a common consideration during construction, it's a potential aggravation in the future.
IF you get the chance, maybe you can sneak a peak underfloor at his handywork. The toilet at a clients was installed using the factory bolts, but by idiots. Seriously. They ran the bolts through the washers, then from the tank through the bowl and then the steel washers and nuts were added. It leaked. Messed up the hard woods. They have 4 kids and 1 could destroy a battleship. I removed, showed her the leak lines down the back of the bowl, bought and installed proper bolts that bolt/rubber washer/tank/steel washer/nut to the tank and then to the bowl with a second steel washer and nut. No leaks. Someone else is doing the all floors since they are ruined beyond my meager skills from too many little sandy feet and no brooms, but I am going to go under the house when they pull the toilet. Why? The idiots also left flange bolts that spin in the air. Had to crawl under to do something else and confirmed it. There are two little ones holding the flange down. I will add some blocking for the screws to grip. (for free, of course since I touched it once)