Hey all…
I’m doing a basement remodel. I’ve never framed greater than 16″ o.c. but HO asked about 24″ o.c. to save some money.
The walls are not structural so I couldn’t really give any reasons why I should stick to 16″ o.c.
opinions? pros n cons?
thankya
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Get everything straight and true, and you'll be fine.
But, my goodness, what is being saved in cost by doing so? Where else are you paring out cost?
The last time I did a basement. It was previously 24 O.C. with 2x3's. and no blocking in between.
Had to put tile over top for the bathroom. SOOOOO much flex in the wall that I had to reframe the wall in 2x4's 16 O.C.
So the question to ask is....what future plans does the H.O. have????
Studs are around 2.50 here. Unless it is a leviathan of a basement, It cant be that much of a cost difference, IMHO.
However, 24 o.c does get you more insulation in the wall = warmer walls. Maybe enough to notice, maybe not.
He didn't say where he is and that will make a big difference in what amount of insulation is needed. Also, there will probably be some kind of break in the wall's envelope somewhere and any benefit of the extra insulation. Heavy wall coverings and need for acoustical treatment for isolation make stiffness necessary and 2x4-24" O.C. won't do it. Besides, as you said, unless it's a leviathon, the cost difference isn't that great. At $2.50/stud, 300' lineal ft of wall will need about 75 extra studs and cost about $186.5 plus the labor, which shouldn't be too bad if the framer is efficient. If it's in a really cold area, I would rather use 2x6-24" O.C..
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I just insulated the outside basement walls on a job of mine. Rather than framing walls, I used the Cel-Lock system by Owens-Corning. It's a 2" thick extruded polystyrene with shiplapped edges and grooves in it to accept a metal furring channel that tapcons to the foundation wall. We just drywalled over that. Rather than taking a couple of days to frame and insulate around all the windows, ducts and other stuff, it took one day and it went great. Granted, the basement walls were straight and plumb. If your walls are otherwise, it might be a pain.
I would recommend 16" centres if you're framing however. I like to use metal framing track on the floors & ceilings and use wood studs. That way I don't have to cut studs exactly to length or shim the walls tight. If using metal studs, I find that they are only rigid enough if they are drywalled both sides. For outside walls they should have the horizontal rails slid in and snapped into position.
Depends highly on the planned finished surfaces.
Drywall oughtta be at least 5/8" for 24" centers.....as mentioned, a tiled wall will flex an awful lot. I have gotten away with 24s when install T-111.
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Holidays
I prefer 22oz myself, but sometimes half to settle for 16oz....
And for framing, stick with 16o.c. if you want fine homebuilding. 24" o.c. is for hacks who don't mind wavy walls.
This hack framed at 24 today. Mea culpa. We can build straight ones all day at 24 centers, and wavy ones using 16s or even the black diamonds. I'll bet you can, too. IMHO, straight ain't a function of the stud spacing.
Think about it when considering the diff between AM radio and FM. Amplitude and frequency. Amplitude goes up when your lumber sucks, and doubles when your partner can't read the crowns right. If you consider frequency, you might conclude that the straightest wall might be done with no studs at all!
But we're just building rustic shacks up in these here Adirondacks. Fine homebuilding must be something happening from Lake Champlain east. ;-)
If you think 16's straighter, why don't you go to 12 and get'm all like pool tables?
Edited 12/14/2006 10:06 pm ET by Gene_Davis
dang that was a funny post. Roar!
damn, am I fat!
LOL.
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Holidays
That would explain why here in Ore. all the walls no matter what spacing seem wavy.. the further away the greater the peaks and valleys of the amplitude. ;-)
The Adirondacks?Well, heck - I've done a few things up in them there parts myself.
We certainly couldn't tell by your profile.
Local code requires we frame exterior walls using 2x6s, but nobody is specifying any maximum spacing.
--
"We certainly couldn't tell by your profile."
--Well, ya know - a few years back I had a profile and a different user-name and all that.But I come back from the wilds of Montana to find my information is no longer here. In addition to that, I can't even seem to figure out <i>where</i> I would input any profile information.As far as the 24" vs 16" - I decided to go with 16" just like always.
This hack framed at 24 today. Mea culpa.
That's ok Gene.
But we're just building rustic shacks up in these here Adirondacks. Fine homebuilding must be something happening from Lake Champlain east. ;-)
If you say so. I'm just building cottages on the Maine coast.
If you think 16's straighter, why don't you go to 12 and get'm all like pool tables?
Why waste the lumber? We get'm like pool tables at 16. Sometimes we do floors at 12 but it makes it harder for us and the other trades.
Do you use 1/2" rock on 24" centers? I could see it with 5/8" rock or with wood walls, but not 1/2" rock.
Do you install clapboards, nailing to the studs? Do you find it works ok at 24" centers? I would think that would be too far apart for good nailing. Do you put your clapboard joints over studs? Fewer studs means more waste of clear vertical grain red cedar, at least that's what we use for clapboards.
What are your reasons for 24" o.c.? I'm all for energy efficiency, I use California corners and rigid foam in my wall pockets, but I think the 24"o.c. thing solves one problem but creates many more.
Mike Maines
Gene, you still haven't answered my question of why you framed at 24" o.c., which after re-reading the beginning of this thread I noticed you started out arguing for 16" o.c.
Framing at 24 is done to save lumber, and at exterior walls, to decrease the thermal transfer done by studs, thus increasing the wall assembly's overall R-value.
Actually, wavy walls has more to do with the person installing the studs than it has to do with how many he installs.
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Holidays
Actually, wavy walls has more to do with the person installing the studs than it has to do with how many he installs.
Crowning studs is carpentry 101. At 24" o.c. you will see deflection between studs in the sheetrock and on the exterior.
The original rafters on my own home...circa 1906....are almost 30" on center.
When I bought the house, and tore off the 4 layers of shingles, all I had to do was put down a layer of plywood decking. One of the flattest roofs in the neighborhood.
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That's cool.
Rough-sawn 1x decking?
House I grew up in was built in 1817. Rafters were roughly 4' o.c., and still had bark on the bottom side. Rough 1x decking that bowed like crazy between rafters.
Maybe that's why I "overbuild" at 16" centers now.
Nope....no decking at all....original roof was wood shake on batten strips.
(Full) 2 x 6 rafters....NO RIDGE! I left the battens for fear they were the only thing holding the rafters in place. 1" T & G plywood decking.....pain in the arse with the random spacing of the rafters.
I don't consider 16" centers overbuilding at all....just not always necessary depending on what is being applied to interior and exterior.
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Holidays
One other benefit to 24" OC is now your bearing can be transfered from your 24" OC trusses right down to the footing even though in this situation you are not bearing. i believe the theory is you also get about 40 % less thermal transfer going 24" OC than 16" OC. another advantage is your sheetrock is easy 8 footers break on studs and 4 footers break on studs but of course you need 5/8" on 24 centers. easier for homeowner to rock himself.
what do i know though im just a dumb carpenter