This is a 36 square roof.
The eaves are about ten feet off of the ground. The roof is not really walkable. A simple gable roof 57 feet long with 23.5 foot rakes. A garage T’s off of it. Again a simple gable 36.5 feet long (from gable to the intersection with the other roof plane) with 16 foot rakes.
A couple of chimneys and three skylights.
The roof has two layers of shingles on top of the wood shingles with skip sheathing. So everything must be decked.
When I put all this into my spreadsheet, I come up with $17,000 for a complete tearoff, decking, and 25 year three tab shingles.
I just need to know that this price makes sense (or doesn’t!).
Thanks.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Replies
Go with $16,999 it sounds better, If you land the job I send you the Buck!
Don't think your price is out of line!
Rich,
Makes sense to me. Tear off, dump fees, 7/16 OSB at what? $17.00 a sheet!. OSB alone will cost better than 2K. Don't know where you are, but IceShield can get expensive. Skylights are a pain, new flashing? Ridge vent? Drip edge? Those chimney crickets need valley metal?
I've learned to stop worrying, and love my quote. Neighbor came over to complain to me about all the 'extras' in his roof, ( I'm a GC ), and wanted to know if I would have covered them in the bid; My reply: "Yes, but not for the price you thought you got." Him: "Maybe I should talk to you next time."
Maybe.
Good luck!
skipj
Lemmesee.... first you need a 30 yard dumpster (W.A.G.) delivered and hauled away. Here that would cost me $1000 plus. Then you need about 125 sheets of 1/2" ply. $3000. Then you need 20 rolls of 30# felt. $500 (or maybe you use the ASTM rated and it's higher). Let's say 38 square of comp shingles. $3000. Flashings, nails, etc. etc. $300. A little bit of CYA and you're probably around $8000 in materials. So you've got $9000 for labor and profit & overhead. According to my thinking you need a minimum of $3500 in profit & overhead, so labor has to be $5500. You're $55 and your helper is $35, so together you're $90/hour and can work for 61 hours before you start giving them the shirt off your kid's back. Can you finish the job entirely in seven 8-hour days?
Obviously I don't know jack about what you charge or what materials will cost you, who's on your crew, or how many c.y. of debris you'll have, but that's how I would rough in an estimate for that and hopefully it's of some use to you. $17K is definitely not out of line, and might even be low. Can you post the figures you plugged into your spreadsheet?
i'm always thinking that the prices i get are too high. so i sit down and work them out again and come up with the same number.
if that's what it costs it's what it costs, if you want to work for nothing you can do stuff at home.
i do find that it helps to show the breakdown of the costs so people can understand where the numbers come from.
Do not show the breakdown of costs to the Client. If you do you are setting a poor precident. They will want you to substantiate/ prove everything else as a standard.
You can suggest alternatives - 20 yr vs 30 yr shingles vs cedar, copper vs aluminum, etc - as a way of showing concern for price. Explanation of price is not confidence building. They won't beleive your insurance cost and WC cost anyway. Then you'll hear "Profit? Isn't that a bit high?"
F
Thanks everyone. I just needed to make sure the price was realistic. All of the roofs I've done have been considerably cheaper, so I just needed to check that the 17,000 does in fact make sense.
I agree that it is probably a bit cheap, so I will review it again before talking to the customer (historically I never charge enough...)
I am not a fan of showing the customer the breakdown in prices, so I won't be doing that.
If I have time in the near future, I'll try to post the numbers I'm using in the speadsheet.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
This Cedar monstosity is 16 Sq ( for now) 20 more to follow..4 valleys, no skylights, no crickets..climbed right past 12,000. easy..but then again the cost of the shingles alone was 165 sq.
no dumpster either..my last 30yd box was..450 total.
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
As a homeowner with some knowledge of what goes into a roof like this, (I've done a few myself) I would sign the contract for $17,000 quick before you change your mind. Provided, of course, that you could show me some of the work you have done, and that the details on those jobs are up to professional standards.
sorry i think you've got the wrong end of the stick .
i would put down the costs for the tearoff, and the replacement separately.
as far as i am concerned, my clients get a fixed price from me, and the profit i make is none of their business.
i do not put down the costs of materials and labour separately as I'm only interested in the complete job, none of this if i get the materials etc.....
20x20 carport, 25x40 main roof, 1 penetration, 1 @ 1/2 sheet patch, close 1 flue opening, 1 @ 3' x 2' cricket between ridges, 2 eaves into gables, 140' Snow and Ice, 4:12 pitch. Tear off one layer.
$7,000
And I thought he was a little low on his labor. Did not mark up material. Newbie contractor.
But we're really happy with the work.
SamT
do the spreadsheet ...
do it by hand ...
build it in your head ... piece by piece.
If they all add up ....
here's the good part ....
great line pounded into my head by my first sales boss ....
"Don't be afraid of the money!"
again ... with feeling ....
"Don't be afraid of the money!"
Millions of supposed sales pros all over the face of the earth are afraid to ask for the sale ... and even more are afraid to ask for the money. And ... after all ... we are salesmen. We sell ourselves.
The numbers do lie 3 times .... so present it with confidence ....
or ... low ball and short change yourself to guarantee you can lose?
I first heard that phrase about 15 yrs ago .... I still have to run it thru my head each time I give what I think is "way over priced" ... but on paper ... is the ugly truth.
Roofing's gonna be tough ... because they're always someone ... usually about 10 someone's ... that'll do it cheaper ... mostly for beer and/or crack money.
Too much low end competition for me. Takes too long to grow the rep that commands top dollar for a top dollar job. But ... maybe your big roof customers have already been burned and are looking for that top dollar job.
Don't be afraid of money ....
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Jeff
Someday I think I'm going to see you on the cover of a book titled "Dont be Afraid of the Money"
I agree with you, early on when I bid things I would lower some bids, they sounded kinda high to me, a friend taught me the same as yours old boss, dont be bashful about what you are charging. Took awile to sink into my head.
If the figures add up then go with it, with confidence.
Doug
Now that we've got Jeff's mug gracing the cover of a book called, "DON'TR BE AFRAID OF THE MONEY OR THE HONEY" we need to put yours on the cover the companion work, "DON'T BE AFRAID OF THE WORK OR THE JERKS"
Your price is fair so only the jerks will want it cheaper. There is a lot of grunting in that tear of on this one, along with potential for rain problems since you have to take it to new sheathing through so many layers. That adds to the tarp and insurance cost and batteries for the weather radio to listen to uncle NOAH
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
It's never easy but hey... I just gave a quote two weeks ago to do some work for best friends of ours and I didn't hold back. It really threw them for a loop. I showed them the quote just before we all went out to dinner and a show, not good timing I know but hey...
Neighbor next door has a roof around 32 squares( there's 8 roll of #15 felt laying next to a statck of 100+/- sheets of OSB.
Existing roof is western red cedar and needs to torn off, sheeted and install a 35 year roof.
First 2 companies gave quotes of $14,500. A local guy who works for a union general contracting firm recommended someone else and his price was aroung $10,100 with sales tax.
Roofs on new construction run around $100/square and that's with a 40-50 year shingle and 15lb felt.
i came in about twenty two five
but i don't care if i get the job-
whatever jeff says is right. funny- he seems dumber than a stump in person...
smile wink wink
looked at a house today- paint.
guy told me he had a bid of 2500.
i was thinking more like 8500.
listed what i would do and took the deposit on the spot...
so stick to your guns hombre
you already knew that
>you need a 30 yard dumpster (W.A.G.) delivered and hauled away. Here that would cost me $1000 plus
Wow. I'm spoiled on dumpsters I guess, $90 roll-off fee and $27/ton for a 40 yarder. I would be killed at a grand a piece.
>Roofs on new construction run around $100/square and that's with a 40-50 year shingle and 15lb felt.
Does anyone have a rule of thumb for tear-off per square? I'm not worried about geography, just wondering. I finished a six-layer tear off and am scratching my head as to how I did. It was my own building, a small apartment complex. I didn't put the sixth layer on it btw. 30 squares rectangular hip.
remodeler
Six-layer?? ROAR!
Isn't that like a record or something?
>Isn't that like a record or something?
History of the building...
We got it cheap because it was slated for demolition and we made a deal with the board of health, they didn't want another vacant lot in neighborhood with development money going in. Previous owner (saw him today driving by jobsite) had it for 25 years and didn't put a single dime into it. Really - during demo we came across all kinds of crazy things, like a 6' cardboard Wendy's sign glued and spackled over to repair a hole in the wall. There's a wendy's across the street.
Originally was 8 units with bathrooms. When a bathroom would fail completely because the plumbing just kind of seized in place, he would cut a hole in the wall and have two tenants share a bathroom. The boiler went out three years ago, and he bought kerosene space heaters for all of the tenants. Who were using gas stoves for heat anyway at that point. With no insurance on the building. First two layers on roof were roll roofing, then four layers of shingles. And it didn't look like they were all the same color of type in a layer.
remodeler
Oh, structural repairs on the roof framing as well because it was sagging.
remodeler
Well, at least you didn't say the first layer of shingles was slate :o)
Here garbage is about .12 per pound, or $240 per ton, if you take it yourself. A typical load in my pickup, maybe 8 plastic garbage cans plus some stuff in the bed, is over $100. It's brutal.
The dumpster folks charge about .08 per pound. A 30 yard box costs about $100 to deliver, $100 to pick up, and is weighed for dumping. You can easily get to $1500 for 30 yards if you put bricks or other heavy debris in there. I've sent 'em away so heavy that the box hauler stood on it's rear wheels trying to pull the box up onto the bed. When you see that you know the bill is going to suck.
We have a couple of garbage transfer stations in town. Normal trash is $66/ton, with a $6 transaction fee. Minimum is $17 for 320 lbs. I decided against a box since they have a set minimum (like 4 days and 3000 lbs which was about $300), and after that a daily rental fee ($20-40?) and I could very easily see it sitting there day after day if a weather system moved in. I ended up doing the tear off in 6 half-days spread out over 2 weeks. I could get about 500 lbs in the back of my Toyota before my lower back said "no more!". So the 3180 lbs ended up costing me around $150 including gas.
I had no idea of weight at the beginning but did figure on 540 sq ft and 2" thick equalled 90 cu ft compacted and probably double that when torn off, which meant going with their minimum 10 cu yd box.
Concrete is $1 per 100 lb at a local trash company/recycling place. Most of the places which rent dumpsters have different rates depending on what is in it. Trees and such are pretty cheap as they transfer it to a large local company that makes bark mulch. And if you bring it recyclables such as batteries and metal they credit even off the minimum.
central Ky is 110.00 drop off fee, 30 bucks a ton, 75.00 pick up fee, 2.00 a day.
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
There is nothing worse than being 3/4 done with a job and knowing you are losing your shirt.
My quotes go up by my workload. If I am too busy the quotes go up. Sorry, thats the way it is. You make your money when times are lean.
I sometimes think of that movie "Airplane" when someone asked Leslie Nielson "How'd you get to be so ruthless?". He replied "I used to be a general contractor".
rich... 36sq.. two layer tear-off...
did you check out the "hernia" thread ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Rich,
My favorite pricing quote: "If you're going to go broke, why go broke tired?"
It's better to lose the job because your bid is high than to get the job and lose money because it's low.
Dave