What’s going on with these combo kits? HD and LOwes arn’t running any specials on the big names at least around here. (SE Pa.) They’re not even prominently displayed in the stores except for the mini Bosch driver and right angle drill. And the ones they are pushing are the older Nicad sets. Are they just trying to dump the old technology first? What gives?
Dan
Replies
They won't tie up a lot of capital in the new stuff until the old is gone. They also won't give the old ones away until they absolutely need to. Just good business. For the hobbyist, NiCad is fine- it's the trades people who really need the Li-Ion. NiCAd isn't totally dead since most people won't just run out and replace every tool or battery they have immediately. Lowes has the Milwaukee Li Ion tools on display here in Milwaukee, maybe your market is different.
Actually guys, everybody needs the LiIon, particularly the hobbyist because they usually don't have a regamin of battery charging and as we all know, nicads don't last long when they are allowed to go dead, whereas LiIon will hold a charge for up to 6 mos or more without charging and without going bad. So that being what it is, Santa should bring us all new battery tools ;-)One thing I noticed at HD, one of their special DW sales, the batteries in the kit were NOT DW branded but just yellow plastic no name specials.Cheers,I like your approach....now lets see your departure
Im in Bangor Maine and HD have both millwaukee and Mikita li-ion along with the ridgid line
even had some mill V18 sets marked down on clearence a few weeks back.
woof
Carpentry and remodeling
Vic Vardamis
Bangor Me
http://www.ravengrove.com
I've noticed the same thing and had similar thoughts. They all seem to have the Bosch mini driver and right-angle driver, but that's about it.
After I started seeing ads, reviews and discussions about the lithium-ion tools, I assumed the tools would start showing up soon, and more prominently.
It seems that only in that last few weeks our local Menards started carrying some Makita drill/driver combo sets.
I am in So Cal - The OC (FWIW) - and I have not seen a single promo for the LiOn tool kits. I have been looking for the Makita LXT 600. On occasion they promo the Bosch pocket driver at 129.
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
In Memphis They are selling a Ridgid lithion 4 set for 397$ 24volt at H.Depot.
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
I need new 18v batteries for my Milwaukee drill and I figured out that it will pay to wait just a little longer 'till the price drops a bit for a set of new Nicads. Li-ion lasts 50% longer....but it doesn't mean any more power. If I can get NiCads for one half the cost of a new set of Li-ion, which they are almost now, I'm still ahead of the game. Yes, I figured in the time it takes to switch the batteries and with the nicads I can go all day and just charge them up at night.
There's great deals on E-bay.
I too live in SE Pa and you're right, the big stores seem hesitant to push these new kits.
I don't intend to get any more cordless tools anyhow, only to replace the ones I have if they break. I have a beautiful corded 1/2" Milwaukee drill from the '40's (heavy as hell), but I use it, and it still works just fine. I'm not asking any electric tool to last quite that long, but it seems that the cordless tools are on the same path as the cell phone. They change every few years or so and either break, wear out, or become somewhat obsolete. Then there's the whole hassle and expense of dealing with worn batteries.
Be an electric cord and get plugged in.
I kept buying the tool on sale to get the needed batteries.
Ive got so much invested in Nicads , it will be a long time before I can look at anything else .
Ill check Ebay for deals on Nicads.
Now my feeling on the thread subject;
I dont understand either why they are not marketing the new tools better than they are now . For one thing the public is not educated and that goes for most of the professional trades people . I also wonder why Dewalt is hanging back when they are #1 in the world in sales and are known to be very aggressive .
Anyway , if price is half the cost in Nicads , I can make better money using them. MY answer is to take a bunch of batteries warm to work in an insulated bag we use for an ice chest . Keep them in the cab in the sun on cold days. Not many people go through 8 batteries in a day. Thats the answer. Bring the power and charge it at home where its warm this time of year.
Tim
I've used the Li-ion 14.4 volt Makita impact driver for years now. Some days, I use it all day long, and have the batteries being recharged constantly. The batteries never last me longer than 6months... I'm lucky if they last 5. I talked to Makita here in Japan, and they weren't surprised at the life (or lack of it) of my batteries..... I still love the impact driver, but I'm going to get a corded one after Christmas, on the advice of the Makita rep.
By the way, my friend in Calgary, who works outside all day long fixing framing errors, bought an 18Volt cordless set from Makita this summer, and the first -25C day this winter, both batteries died on the spot..... the Li-ion seem to dislike really cold temperatures...!
SS
MH batteries dont last long for some reason... Nicads still seem to be the cheapest best/solution.
I have some panasonic MH battery packs that are almost five years old. The run time is getting shorter, but they are still quite useful.
I love my Makita Li-ion impact driver, but I may not be quite so eager to switch all my cordless tools to Li-ion after reading the following in Scientific American recently:"Life Span: All batteries degrade, but lithium-ion cells erode faster when highly charged and warm; an average notebook battery kept at full charge at 25 degrees Celsius will irreversibly lose about 20 percent of its capacity a year, according to studies. Keeping a cell at half-charge in the refrigerator could extend its life." Scientific American, December 2006, p 113Did a Google search and several websites gave similar statistics on Li-ion longevity.
I just bought a li makita 18v set @ HD for $425 (reg $599) b/c box was damaged. Anyway the isntructions for the battery charger says not to charge when temps below 50F or above 80F. That rules out over half the year here in Baltimore. I like the tools alot but the batteries charge slowly and don't fully charge in the 35-45F temps we've had this week. Might have to limit them to nice days and indoor work.
I have twp chargers - one in the van and one in the shop - and 4 batteries. When one goes bad, unless I'm indoors where the temp is ok, I just put in a fresh battery and charge them all when I get home.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
@@ I have twp chargers - one in the van and one in the shop - and 4 batteries.
Do you have an inverter in the van?
If so, what works for you?The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
The charger in the van is simply there to plug into an ac source if its available and the ambient temperature is ok.
I've thought about an inverter, but when I inquired a few years ago, I was advised against using one with battery chargers, though I don't remember why. 4Lorn1 gave the advice, IIRC.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
I've thought about an inverter, but when I inquired a few years ago, I was advised against using one with battery chargers, though I don't remember why. 4Lorn1 gave the advice, IIRC.
Have a small one in the van to charge the laptop and such and thus far (some years, no problems.
They are common on boats to provide 110v. Wonder if it was the wave form curve. Modified square wave used to be common, but I think the new ones give more of a sine wave. Some advertise pure sine wave. The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
I think you're right about the curve. I haven't kept up-to-date wrt the current technology, so it might be ok. Power usually isn't problem for the work that I do, however, which is stricktly renovation/remodel; there's always power available.
Happy Holidays
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
HD in SLC,Ut has it on display. Makita Milwaukee and Rigid. It seems to be intermittent. But off and on it's around.
Plus the last couple of Sundays the sears add has had Lithium drill stuff showing up. The only one I haven't seen is Hitachi. But that one is showing up in print adds of the trade stuff.
By the picture the sears looks like Milwaukee.
My best advice for all of you guys is to stop buying tools at the Big Boxes. Find a good local tool store or shop the quality tool stores on the internet. My local professional tool store may not always be the cat's azz on price, but they always have the latest technology and are usually very knowledgeable regarding a new tool's capabilities, limits, assets and liabilities.
If you want deals..... research what you want and make a decision. And then shop the internet tool stores for deals. They're out there, but you may have to wait to time it right and be ready to pull the trigger as soon as you spot a deal.
I bought my 4 piece Makita LI set for a very good price at HeavyDutyTools.net and got the recip saw thrown in for free. I bought the set and then immediately made a post here at Breaktime to inform others of the deal. Within a 1/2 hour, the site had sold out and many missed out on the deal. So be ready to pull the trigger as soon as you spot what you're looking for at a decent price.
It would be nice if someone could sort out the practical differences among the three battery types: Nicad, NiMH, and LiOn. For example:If you take one size -- say 15.6v -- how do the three compare in terms of charge time, run time, power output, and battery life?And what about amp hours? It's my understanding that this relates strictly to run time. Thus, if you have a 2.0 AmH battery, the run time after a charge will be less than a 3.5 AmH battery, with the power output the same in both. Is that right?********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
--"If you take one size -- say 15.6v -- how do the three compare in terms of charge time, run time, power output, and battery life?"In that voltage (15.6v) you will only find NiMH batteries...so 18v would be a better choice making the comparisons.FHB # 176 compares the battery types on pg. 63.More later...g2g
Picking the 15.6v has completely arbitrary. Any of them would do for purposes of comparison. Read FHB? That would mean going through all my piles of junk to find it <G>.I do remember skimming that article very quickly. But I was hoping some kind soul here would make it all simple for this poor dunderhead.....********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Here's the gist of it:NiCad: $ Least expensive. Heaviest per volt. Must be charged more often, but can be charged more times. Best for cold conditions. Toxic cadmium means batteries should be recycled.NiMH: $$ Moderate price & weight. Better run time (higher amp hours) than NiCad but shorter cycle life (lower number of times battery can be charged). Not so good in cold. Non-toxic.Li-Ion: $$$ Cost 40% more per volt than NiMH but weigh 45% less (18v power at 12 or 14v weight). Run times and cycle life are similar to NiMH, but while idle NiMH batteries loose 25% of their charge per month, Li-Ion only loose 2% (a big benefit for sporadic users). Also not cold friendly. Non-toxic. Newest technology so many new features can be found (nice ergonomics/lights, etc.)You get output of these tools by multiplying amp hours by volts (except that the larger volt Li-Ion tools have rounded up voltages--Milwaukee "28v" tools are 25.2v, etc.Here is a comparison to show run times of two cordless tools:Makita 2.6 Amp hour x 14.4v = 37.44 (will drill 22.75 1-1/2" holes in 1" oak per charge)Hilti 3.0 Ah x 15.6v = 46.8 (will drill 27.75 1-1/2" holes in 1" oak per charge)
Edited 12/16/2006 2:57 pm ET by basswood
That's the best, most understandable summary I've ever read --- YOU should be writing those mag articles. But if they gave you a two page spread, you could do the job in a paragraph or two, then the art people would have to fill the rest of the space up with pics and illustrations <G>.I just recently plunked down close to $400 for four new NiMH batteries; if I'd read this first, I would have saved myself some $$ and bought the Nicads instead. I would make a copy of this great summary and trot it out whenever the issue comes up, which it seems is frequently. Thanks again.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Buying batteries just sucks, doesn't it?
I just priced out what I truly need for batteries and it was over $400. That was four Makita 12V batteries for the impact drivers and two 18V Bosch batteries for the drill and circ saw combo.
Then I went on Amazon and realized that I could pretty much replace the batteries, tools, chargers, and cases for not a whole lot more especially if I went with reconditioned tools (which still come with new batteries).
In the end, I didn't end up doing anything. Neither situation appeals to me. I could drop the cash and replace the batteries but it'd kill me knowing I could have had brand new tools.
Or I could spend a few dollars more and order new tools and it'd kill me knowing that I already have perfectly good tools, chargers and cases that would end up collecting dust.
I think I'm going to try to sell my old kits... at least the impact drivers. Then I could replace the impact drivers with new tools and just buy batteries for the Bosch. Uggh. Waaaaay more complicated than it should be.
The 5 piece Makita LI set stays behind the seat of my truck and is just for me. Can't let the guys get their hands on that thing just yet. And I should really own a third battery for that set as well....... sigh.......View Image
Have you tried any of the rebuild places? I know one guy who has sent batteries here and been satisfied, and there was a thread sometime ago touting these same people as well:http://www.voltmanbatteries.com/batteryrebuilds.htmThey will do a Nicad 15.6v rebuild for $35, and if I have my facts straight, they can do that with a NiMh battery. I still need more batteries, and I think I will give these folks a try.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
There is a third alternative but it takes shopping and patience.
I look for various tools for my line of batteries on clearance and the batteries on clearance or sale
I started out with the 4 tool dewalt 18 volt set on clearance three years ago.
Since then I have bought the jigsaw on CL (clearance).
The impact driver and hammerdrill with bag and 2 batteries and charger on CL.
The 16 gauge nailgun with hammerdrill and 2 batteries and charger on CL..
The cutout tool with battery and charger on CL.
The vacc. on CL.
The radio on CL.
The grinder on CL.
Two batteries on sale for 99$
I keep three chargers and 6 batteries in one of my Dewalt bags.
I keep the impact dr. and grinder and nailgun in another bag along with accessories.
The 4 pack stays in its box and I haven"t used the cutout tool yet, the radio stays in the trailer and when I want tunes I throw in one of the degrading batteries as they last a good while in the radio.
I am waiting to find a deal on the shears and the flourescant light.
ANDYSZ2
WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
I have 4 Mak Lithium batteries; I bought a stand alone drill - not as heavy as the hammerdrill and is used often - and am glad I have them. I cycle thru the batteries faster than I thought I would. But even the 18v lithium batteries aren't light, & I bring them in every night during the cold spells when I get home, in a bag with other 'perishables'. They sell $99 each at the HD, but I've seen them on the net going for $150 for two. S/H not included though...
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
JUst wanted to say thanks to every one for their imput on a great thread . I took home on this one and didnt add anything .
I got to thinking about your uses of battery tools and everyone elses too. Some said they worked by power inside like I do or at least I think Jer did . But anyway we have many choices now we did not used to have and I like that , plus the price option.
When I moved up into the 14.4 class it was 200 bucks for just the drill charger and two batteries. Ive paid as much as 229 I think which were nimh. Thinking back on that and having the same hard choices to make on batteries I made an impulse choice right after reading this thread.
Lion isnt for me and I thank every one for lending a hand at that .
Just a note to say what I did to match what I do most for what Im equipped. I was at a close out and bought a 14.4 , two battery, charger , case , for 80.00. I thought for a little bit I stole it.
When I got it home I charged the batteries while watching football Sunday. I read all the data. The batteries are nicad which I knew . However they are only 1.3ah. I thought , I screwed up here . Makita by the way. Well I got a battery charged in 30 minutes and the next one in 30 minutes. If it had been a bigger battery it would have taken longer. The discharge will be the same deal. Its the same power as the big batteries however like someone else mentioned. Only half as long .
Theres somthing wrong with my left arm and Im left handed . My Son helps me[12 yrs old] and cant really use my 18volt stuff. DW cant either and she helps me too. I bought her a cheap drill from Black and Decker. I like the weight so much I loaded it and bought another battery from Walmart. [Im serious] Its a 12 volt deal.
My 14.4 dewalt stuff is geting old and I will realy mis the light of all things. So this was a save on those batteries.
This week Ive used it all and laid it side by side . I can pick up anything I want including 18s which are basically all my specialty tools.
The number one tool I picked up is the light little Makita and second is the 3.6 screw drivers that fit in an electrical pouch or my nail apron. I didnt mention them. They will lock set a door , dismantle a ceiling fan, any electrical except panel work. They will tighten up a loose row of drywall nails easily. Black and Decker 3.6 screw driver . Two on the job with one charging keeps them up. Sometimes one lasts all day, especially painting , removing covers and light fixtures. No battery drill is better that I have found for these tasks. One will fit in the side pocket of my carpenter and painters pants. Before the Makita , it was the #1 used drill doing renovation and rentals. I noticed Sears has one on sale that is lion but I think not.
Im impressed with the little Makitas weight and balance . My arm sure appreciates it. I wont pick up the 18 hammer drill unless I need more power.
If I were an electrician roughing in houses , Id have to have the 24 volt stuff. But IM not and Im not going to.
I love the 18 volt stuff in the specialties tools . I really love the angle grinder , but to tell the truth it doesnt take much battery to run it . The recip is another story though huh?
Tim
I just condensed, paraphrased, and bastardized the work of "cermides" in that post, but thanks for the compliment.I run Bosch 14.4v NiCad 2.0 Ah tools and Makita 18v Li-Ion 3.0 Ah tools...the best of both worlds. Cheap NiCads for the cold. Sweet Makita Li-Ion with killer run time and light weight for the cabinet work.Here's the output math for my gear:14.4v x 2.0 Ah = 28.818v x 3.0 Ah = 54Makita claims 2x's more charge cycles and 280% more lifetime work with their Li-Ion...I wonder compared to what? Ryobi ?I can't say enough good about my Makita stuff though...love that impact driver.
<< I just condensed, paraphrased, and bastardized the work of "cermides" in that post, but thanks for the compliment.>>That's mostly what informational writing is all about. You gather up the info, condense it, and regurgitate it. <G>I met an renowned academic once who said he did one decent research study at the beginning of his career, and he had been rewriting it ever since. Maybe a little exagerated, but not much.........********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I've got 6 of the 14.4 bosch batts and they just keep going? I wish the 18v Bosch was the same.
14.4v may be less prone to overheating (less cells crammed together and more surface area to volume) and last longer as a result.The new bluecore versions of both 14.4 and 18v should last longer.
To be fair to Bosch I had a event at about the first 6 months mark that could have caused less then best life from the first 3 18v batts.
I had my electrician buddy putting a hole through the roof for a new service mast. The hole saw was bottoming out and he kept trying to push it through. smoked the 2.5" bit and super heated the drill and batteries. And who was I to tell an expert he's frying my drill. I guess I should have taken a hint when I had to keep giving him my fresh batts. Duh.
It did take me getting up on the roof and coming from the top down to get it done.
I also made a sample to show him why he couldn't get it to drill through. I used a 1x6 and held it at the roof pitch, drill through and showed him the bit bottoms at the low point of the pitch and then it's like a good brake.
Come to Canada. Home Depot and Home Hardware have different promotions. Also Try Art's Tools in St Catharines Ontario. They are will to make deals with contractors to help them out. I purchased the Makita 18V Lithium Kit with Hammer drill (three settings with three speeds per setting), impact driver (really cool, lots of torque), flashlight (4 hrs on with one charge), site stereo (great sound), two batteries, one charger, and a handsome carrying case. There are other Makita kits available. Batteries are still very expensive. The best price I found so far is from Art's Tools in St Catharines. Also keep an eye on Ebay. I have seen the occasional deal there. Watch out for shipping charges. Sometimes they will jack the shipping charges to make up for a low marked price.
Good Luck