I’ve procured 90 square feet of 1 inch mosiac tile (approx. 1ft sq sheets) to tile the tub surround (tub flange to ceiling) and two adjacent walls to about 48 inches off the floor. I’ve spoken to a couple of “veteran” tile setters and so far their first reaction is…”Oooh. You’re gonna have a time with that.” Not very encouraging for a rookie tile setter. One guy says that I’m asking for trouble because the tile doesn’t allow for there to be much thinset underneath. His idea is that I will have problems with adhesion and that the tiles will “pop” up over time. He also mentioned that if I do apply ample thinset to get the tiles to adhere that it will ooze into and fill the grout joints, leaving no home for the grout.
Another potential probelm cited was that I don’t plan to use a bull-nose on the edge (That’s because Bisazza doesn’t offer one) and that I would have a difficult time finishing-off the edge and getting the adjacent tiles to mate/match at the corners.
My intentions for the edge was to just leave a grouted edge (using non-sanded grout) at the corner. I think that’s do-able and won’t look bad. Others disagree.
I think my biggest concern is how to deal with walls that aren’t exactly plumb. I intended to leave all of the cutting for the inside corners, but I’m concerned about how any uneveness will appear; that is, when removing material from the edge of an already relatively small 1 inch square I could end-up with just a sliver of a tile in portions of the corner that would look not-so-great.
I’m planning to use Flexi-Bond (as I’ve used it on the floors with great success) and I’ll be tiling over half-inch Hardibacker. Any problems with that?
Well I must say the job appears to be somewhat challenging if not daunting, but I do think it possible for even a “green” tile setter to complete it successfully.
I welcome and request any input, tips, suggestions, cautions and encouragement.
Thank you.
Burnell Simpson
Columbus, Ohio
Replies
Welcome Burnell, and I hope you get some good answers. I was only a helper although I set a lot of tile, but can tell you vertical surfaces w/sheet tiles is tricky. Have plenty of spacers on hand, and do your darndest to keep the netting from getting wet. And be sure to pull from different boxes of tile (I always examined/mixed them all for color gradations, chips, etc., but it may not be as important w/your particular tile).
Have you considered quarter-round to finish the edge? Or fiddlesticks? (I know you're not supposed to mix brands, but it is done.)
Can you do a graduated skim coat to help compensate for the out of plumb? That is IMO the most difficult prob to conceal when you can't float the surface.
Good luck! One day I hope to play around w/tile again.
Your 1" porceline mosiacs were generally made for floors, not walls. Yes they are thinner than your wall tiles. Yes, because of their thickness you can not use very much thinset, and if you use too much it will ooze out between the tiles. And yes, they will be so heavy that they may be difficult to set on walls. If you are looking for period look, I would have picked subway tiles. But you didn't so now, let me answer your question.
First, yes, you will have to use a smaller trowel. I would go with the largest V Knotch trowel about 1/8" by 3/8" you can find. Sponge the Hardibacker with water (it really soaks it up) and spread the thinset. Set the tiles and beat them gently in place. Lift every couple of sheets up and make sure that you are getting full coverage on all the tiles. You don't need 100%, but certainly around 80-90%. If not, back butter those rascals.
Wait about hour or more and then take a sixteenth inch steel punch and drag it through the grout lines, picking up any stray thinset in the grout lines. You need about half the thickness of the tile available for grout.
Don't tape and fill the gaps before you tile. It leaves bumps. Do it as you tile, so your surface is flat. Mosiacs will telegraph every little bump, so keep that Hardi flat.
Use a starter strip out of lathe to hold the first ones you do. I would start the full sheets on the tub deck, so measure up one full sheet from there and start there. Nail some quarter inch lathe into your Hardi at that starting point, and set your first sheet. When it is set and dry, go back and set the bottom course, removing the lathe, of course, and using the previously set and dry tile as support using the blue masking tape to hold the bottom sheet in place.
If the walls are not plumb, now is your chance to make them so with the Hardi. It is not easy, but using drywall shims and a four foot level you can make a go at it.
How were you going to do the inside corners? Little half pieces? I would use 1x6 inside cove corner pieces. Because they are a tad thicker than your mosiacs, I would probably grind the back down about a sixteenth. That would make a nice clean corner. You have to grind more than a dozen or so.
I am not altogether sure as to what you mean by the transition to adjacent tile at the edges. If you have adjacent tile on the walls that are different thickness, I would probably buy some 3x6 matching or contrasting tile, and place it at the transition, cutting it down to about a 1x6 flat piece, e.g., make it a border. Alternatively, you could buy a 1x6 border piece. No one will notice the thickness difference.
Try to buy halves from your supplier for the mosiacs if they carry them. I know the DalTile Hex has them, and they really make life handy at the edges, because with them, there is almost never any cuts at the edge.
Pay close attention to the tub flange and waterproofing that critical area. Depending on how the tub is attached, you may have to shim all the Hardiback above the flange so the Hardi goes up and over the flange. Hardi may wick moisture, so seal that bottom edge of the Hardi with just a dab of good butyl caulk and finish off with 100% silicone. Some guys even use a waterproof membrane over that flange, using shower pan membrane. Keep about a quarter inch gap between the tub and the Hardi for the caulk.
If this is a tub shower combo, consider using a trowel on waterproofing over the Hardibacker and take the fabric over the flange and into the gap between the Hardi and the tub, like a sheet following the curves of a bed. Fill that gap with 100% silicone.
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1927
Boris,
I've said it before...
"You're hired!"<g>
Boris and Ralph,thank you for the very thorough and in-depth instructions. Very much appreciated! I think I can confidently make a go-of-it with that good bit of info. Have either of you a preferred brand of thinset? I intended to use FlexBond premium flexible bonding mortar. I used that on the floors but not sure how that will be on the walls. Good choice or bad? Something else I should consider?
Thank you again!
Boris, I have just one more question. Do you prefer to tile in...Red? :)
I use Custom Building Products VersaBond in White at $15 a bag. The gray is a buck cheaper. Really sticky stuff, and stays good in the bucket for about 3-4 hours. I dump the thinset after 4 hours no matter what and mix up a fresh bucket.
The Boris thing is just a handle 'cause my real nickname was apparently taken by someone here.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1927
Burnells - kai gives good advice - take the time to skim coat or furr out the walls purrfectttly plumb and square.
I dont know much but I do set tile...1/4" looks like a mile to a woman in her shower.
and those old-timers were correct about 1" squares and the thinset oozing through and getting in the way of the grout - but go slow and set yourself up to carefully remove it as you go - you'll be fine. treat yourself well and make it pretty.
It was mentioned in Boris' post that tile should be supported on a small, level ledger until the tile has a chance to bond and resist the tendancy to creep down due to gravity. This doesn't take long with larger sizes of tile. Given that your choice of tile may come on a somewhat flexible backing, care should be taken to support the square of mosaic from ABOVE, essentially hanging the piece with tape so it will not collapse upon itself as gravity does its work. If by some stroke of luck you get the ideal thinset mix the grab will be faster.
If you haven't already squared and plumbed the walls (BEFORE placing the cement backer) you should take extra care to get it right. You should be able to shim, straighten and even CHANGE the thickness of the walls to accommodate the size of the tile. If you lay out the 1 foot squares of tile on the floor and take an actual measurement you should be able to move the end wall(s) in to just snip off a whole row or two of squares. If your rough opening is exactly 5 feet and all you had to do was place the 1/2" backer then your measurement becomes 59". Snip off one row of tile squares. No tile cutting involved. (probably not that simple)<G>. But that should give you an idea.
As for matching the thinner mosaic to a thicker bull or other border, again, careful measurement, taking into account the thickness of the tile applied to the back wall (back wall tiled first also gives you some leeway in the corners, you don't have to jam the pieces smack into the corners) will give you the ending point of the mosaic. You can apply a build up skim coat to the side walls in advance - let it dry - that will bring the finished surface of the mosaic even with the other tile. If you are going to a corner, you can adjust the wall so that the mosaic ends at the corner and a bull nose peeking around the corner will provide a neat finished edge. You could continue other tile on the outside of that or get some nice casing to outline the surround and call it done.
You've already been given lots better advice than I could give. But I do want to be sure that Kai's post doesn't get lost in the substance:
"And be sure to pull from different boxes of tile (I always examined/mixed them all for color gradations, chips, etc., but it may not be as important w/your particular tile)."
It is a lot harder to catch damaged tiles when dealing with mosaics. The next time I do them, I will inspect all the pieces thoroughly before I start.
Another day, another tool.