Friday 7-28 Day-one:
installed ceiling fan 2 hrs. 80$
spent rest of day Networking, estimating, buying business shid, talking with customers….
7-29: Electricall work for long time friend & customer 35/hr t&m (10 hr. day)
7-30: sunday day of rest and trepidation about BIG step I have just took…
7-31 10 more hrs elect.
8-1 dry wall patching and chimbly demo & more running around
8-2 got final okey-dokey to start addition from Oma, she is a Sweet older German grandma who is my fav customer. I asked about an estimate and a proposal and she said “it vill cost vat it cost and I trust you” God I love her!!!
got a permit app. and drew some stuff up.
put in for credit at lumper yard and while I was there got a job for some newly weds putting a patio door in.
reserved a bobcat excavator for monday.
did a bid for a bathroom rehab and got it back to K&B Lady
8-3 Taped plastic over demo’d chimbly till I can stucco it properlike
got some additional drawings for permit app. to building inspector
Looked at patio door job
went to another old customers house and started repair on his garage fascia (after gently wrestling a Wisteria off of a cable and the gutter)
got a second check from a girl who wants a vanity custom made(told her I didn’t have time right away and she shoul wait but she wanted to write a chec while she had $$ in the account ) OOOKAAAYYYY!!!
Got a 3000$ check from Oma to get materials (did I say I LOVE her!!???)
8-4 finished fascia repair and got wisteria back in place, got a check 🙂
went to K&B lady # 2 to go over a Kitchen to price (son calls from front yard to tell me theres a BAT IN THE LIVING ROOM!!!!)
Go home after a good meeting and do bat patrol and write proposal for patio door job.
Take trailer and propsal over to patio door job
Customer signs proposal without batting an eye, hands me the key and takes off to Baltimore for the Yankees game.
Are they all gonna be this easy!!!???
work till 7:30 to get door in & call it a day
Take Family to Moretti’s to have the Worlds BEST Cheeseburger.
go home and pass out……………..
I have no comment…
Replies
Be careful of the start check syndrome. They're eager to get you the dough, they'll also be eager to get the goods. The "oh yeah, when you get the time" could turn to the constant moan.
But you've got your #### goin' on Tony. Nicely done!
And remember, not too busy to crap out on the fest.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Congratulations doooode...sounds like you're buyin' breakfest at the L.I. Star Diner Annex...yes<G>
Are they all gonna be this easy!!!???
Maybe. Just remember to do each job like your career depended on it. Even the small ones like hanging a patio door. Work for good references.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Good Luck and it sounds like you're having the time of your life.I met a guy recently who does kitchen remodeling. We had coffee
at a restaurant and he had a notebook full of 8 X 10 before and after pictures which were really impressive.Hope it works out well for you.^^^^^^
S N A F U (Situation Normal: All Fouled Up)
Mister T - take the good with the bad.
Keep moving forward...Buic
Tony,
it all sounds good to me,keep them all happy,and they'll come back for more. And tell their friends.
good luck. Vince Carbone
Nice start now when it gets slow and it will don't panic because you will have built up a nice slush fund...RIGHT.
Also when you get a lull enjoy life a little too because they will be rare and far between.
Make sure that you put any advances in a seperate account so you don't get tempted to use it elsewhere.This and business credit is the quickest way I know to jam yourself up and it is so easy to do!
Inventory all your tools and peremanent ink your cell phone # on them.
Have you made up some business cards... DO SO... and give three or four to each customer and ask them to sell you.This gives them the chance to thankyou by helping you get your business rolling.
Have some signs made up for the truck and yard... OH do you have a company name yet.
Print some door hanger advertising and hang them on the neighbors of the jobs your on.
Have you hired an accountant and set up a business checking account do so now before it gets too complicated.Buy a small file box to keep in truck and organize by job and track all expenses so you can see if you are really making money.Have you set up a home office makes for a nice deduction.
Setup a business card directory and get everybodies business card,this is a good way to make contacts and your interest in them will help them remember you when leads pop up.
Down the road have some company shirts embroidered get nice polo or such and always keep a clean one in the truck for sales visits.
This is just the beginning and remember we are here to support you so just ask.
ANDYSZ2
WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
Where in NY are you?
Elmira, EmanaI have no comment...
GREAT advice... said as only one who has paid to learn can say it....
p
Great week.
I stumbled across a sign the other day that said.
"On the road, many people will try to bring you down. Your one of them."
I thought it was pretty good advice for life.
Tipi fest 06. Let's roll.
Sounds like a Hell of a good start! Talk about looking for a sign that you did the right thing, there you go. Every week isn't going to go this smooth, but so what. You know you did the right thing. Just keep the radar on for jobs and your gut tuned in to steer clear of bad clients.
Wish you were closer. $35/hr is a bargain.
jt8
""The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese." --Dave Barry
Wish you were closer. $35/hr is a bargain.
Yeah, that's the part that concerns me- I'm just hoping that he realizes that he's probably making the equivalent of $15-20/hour as an employee. I've seen too many people fall into that trap, and soon end up back to work for someone else.
Bob
Actually Bob 35 is what i use for time and materials jobs
all bids are done out of Home Tech estimator w/ OH and profit.
and when I bill my time, I bill for ALL of it, or at least what is fair.
I aint workin for nuttin!!!
A Good Honest Living is what I am aiming for.I have no comment...
I'm lost when you say "35 is what I use for T&M jobs". Are you still marking that up substantially to cover OH&P, or are if you put in 10 hours on a job, and use $100 in material, are you billing $450? I'm sure you're probably looked at all of this already, but by the time you factor in insurance, advertising, vehicles, cell phones, taxes, licenses, etc., if you aren't marking up that $35/hour, you're going home with a far smaller chunk of it that it's worth risking your livelihood for.
Bob
I understand that...
but right now my overhead is small.
As that changes and I get established it WILL go up.
Thanx for the advice and keep it coming...
I have a feeling that you guys/gals here are gonna be my best asset on the business end of things...
I have no comment...
tony.. you gotta come totipi so we can really work you over
also.. a lot of this sinks in so much better with beer & brats
BUT:
<<
but right now my overhead is small.
As that changes and I get established it WILL go up.>>>
no.. i don't believe your overhead is small.. i believe you haven't accounted for all of your overhead
or you are falling into the trap of figuring what your overhead IS instead of what it SHOULD be to run your business as a business
for T&M i charge all my guys to the job at $50... and barely make anything on them
because i have employees to help recover the O & P , i can keep our rate low at $50
but if i were trying to recover all of my O & P just by what i get for myself.. it would have to be a LOT BIGGER
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0966571916/sr=8-1/qid=1154886355/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-6886630-9081515?ie=UTF8
T, $35 an hour is pittly sht money, I'd take a look at that book if I were you. I've read it and I think it will help you work out what you should/could be charging.
if she knows so much about pricing, how come her book is only 13.99$??
;)I have no comment...
>>>>>>>>>if she knows so much about pricing, how come her book is only 13.99$??Her overhead is low right now.................
What ever you do, don't flip the red switch on the dashboard, Gunner.
http://grantlogan.net/
ROFLMAO!!!"...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
I will guarantee if you buy Ellen Rohr's book (How Much Should I Charge?).....
and really read it (it's a pretty simple fun easy to read book by the way)....
and really get it (if you don't get it, read it again or ask a question here for God's sake)....
in no more than a couple of years time you will be telling the story here about how Ellen Rohr's book How Much Should I Charge? was the best $13.99 you ever spent in your life.
Hey while it is only your first week after reading through this my own evaluation tells me @$35 per hour you are really just spinning your wheels and going no where right now. I see a lot of smoke being generated by the tires but its all show and no real mileage.
Buy and read the book.
Thought it was funny the other week I was talking to a guy (contractor) working on a neighbors house and he was telling me business is so great he has to work 70 to 80 hours a week to keep up with all the work he has lined up and he thinks he has two years of work lined up. Yeah were doing really well here too but nothing like that. We talked a little further and I almost choked and laughed out loud when he told me all his work was T & M and his rate was $40 per hour and he while he was charging his clients for his time going to they yards to p/u materials he wasn't putting any markup on those materials. Of course he has tons of work lined up! He is the cheapest guy I've heard about in years. His clients are probably laughing all the way to the bank. Our rate is over twice his and we make money on the materials and subs we provide and there is certainly no shortage of work in our queue.
Don't ever make the mistake of confusing people hiring you because you are cheap with people hiring you because you are good.
And during the period you are working for cheap just remember that people are branding you as the cheap low (whoops! edited to read "low" not "lost" although "lost" might still very well be apropos!) cost solution and that is a helluva box to get out of once you have built it around yourself.
Better you set the correct rate for your services ASAP than let this go on for too long.
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Edited 8/6/2006 9:11 pm ET by JerraldHayes
And during the period you are working for cheap just remember that people are branding you as the cheap lost cost solution and that is a helluva box to get out of once you have built it around yourself.
Pay attention to that statement. I partner with a freind who is chinese and very well known in the asian community. They are very used to his pricing being low and it being easy to get free additionals out of him. I''ve been stopping that (making me the difficult caucasion) but it is an up hill battle. the word is out and it is turning around but they still try to negotiate a bunch of freebies (they just try when I'm not around) .The truth is they can't get the service & quality anywhere else, no matter what price we put on it. But because the previous reputation is there for being cheap & easy to take advantage of it is more difficult than it should be to get the prices where they should be.
I should also note this is commercial constuction NOT residential. My speacilty is building resturants altho I still do other projects.
OK OK!!!!
I will spend the 13.99$
actually I am marking up my 35$ per hour by 40% (I know I know, 50% is what the books say)
so I am charging 49$ in actuality.
better???I have no comment...
Jerrald,
you know that I will be bothering you for the ENTIRE weekend on L.I....
:)I have no comment...
That's really no bother at all. I'll look forward to it.
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Before I head out for the day I think maybe I shouldh also add that there is another book by Ellen Rohr I also recommend entitled Where Did The Money Go?- Easy Accounting Basics for the Business Owner Who Hates Numbers by Ellen Rohr. The two book together at Amazon are $27.98. The costs are now starting to add up.
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As I've said to a friend a few times already...
"Now that I'm a 'Contractor' I gotta start being a skin-flint tight-wad"I have no comment...
Yep and you will probably start voting as a Republican lol
AAAAAHHHHEEEEEEEIIIIIAAAAAAOOOOHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!I have no comment...
Never say never buddy... you just may be surprised some time.
Nahhh, ya don't need to become a "skin-flint tight wad", you need to become smarter and more understanding about how money comes and goes.
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I just recently started my own business after 10 years as a piece work sub; so your thread was particularly interesting to me. How about an update?
rob http://www.carolinayardbarns.com
OOOOOKaaaaay........
Lessee...
August 1st was ages ago to my addled mind...
Phone has been ringing...
If I get all the work I am bidding I will be cloning myself at least twice...
Completed jobs:
Ceiling fan install
Patio door install
some maintenance stuff for a dr.s office
Lighting for a good friend
garage facia repair
In progress:
6x7 laundry addition
Chimbly repair
35" custom vanity
Bid out:
Kitchen
bath
deck
replacement windows
electric and dry wall 4 bedrooms of house (for patio door customer)
proposal accepted:
lattice work on custom porch I built last year whill still an indentured servant.
Lessons learnt:
Charge more $$$$
Get 35-50 % down and have a progress payment or two..
$$ is tight till I get the final on my addition(5-10 days)
Charge more$$$
Copper is booocooo $$$, 121$ for 250' of 12-2!!!
Don't bid electric or plumbing without pricing materials THAT day!!!
you need a: Building permit AND an electric Permit AND a plumbing permit.
Network!
Most of my old customers WILL be loyal to me.
Don't put your new Job sign between the side walk and the curb....
cute redheads can get you to work for peanuts if your not strong...
It is not as hard as I thought it would be...
It is more work than I thought it would be...
It is more fun than I thought it would be...
This place (breaktime) is my single greatest outside resource!!!
WRITE EVERYTHING DOWN!!!
TWICE!!!
THREE TIMES!!!
You'll still forget shid...
Call people back...
The boss listens to me now
the boss may be a jerk sometimes but I've had 25 years exp. working for jerks...
I can take time off anytime I want with no notice, but I don't want to as much...
I LOVE IT!!!!
"The truth, when told does nothing but bolster a mans character."
MisterT,
I've been meaning to ask you how things are going. Overall, very well, eh? (and you even took time off to go to TipiFest?!)
I started on my own earlier this year also. It has been challenging, as I had no prior experience of "running a business," nor any experience in construction (only DIY stuff on my own homes). I'm not sure if I have the "stuff," but I'm gonna keep plugging away.
If you need a volunteer "helper" for a couple days, I could learn a lot from you. Seriously, keep it in mind. I'm maybe two hours from Elmira, but it'd be worth the drive.
Your "lessons learned" list looks almost almost identical to mine. I made the big mistake of offering a ballpark estimate for a sizeable job ... been working "for free" for a couple weeks just to keep the costs from doubling my casual guesstimate.
Initially, I was very good at marketing, lining up many potential customers. But, bogged down with this larger project, I haven't even gotten back to some folks. Aaargh ... I don't want that kind of reputation. Mistakes have a way of compounding.
Best wishes, and keep up the good work!
Allen
"But, bogged down with this larger project, I haven't even gotten back to some folks"
I'm a DIY-cause-it's-fun type, but I do have to call pros for things like excavation and driveway paving. So, sorry to be rude, but wouldn't most successful pros here call that statement inexcusable ? Why are you destroying your reputation ? A 3 sentence answering machine message to those customers is all it takes to turn you from 'some jerk who never even got back to me' to 'I guess that guy must be really good - he was so busy he didn't even have time for my job'. Pick a time of day they aren't home and just say "Sorry I haven't gotten back to you - I'm swamped with other work right now, and I'll understand if you have to proceed with someone else".
You could 'get back to' 6 customers in less than 5 minutes. That's a better bang for your buck than finding a wallet on the sidewalk.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>You could 'get back to' 6 customers in less than 5 minutes.Looks good on paper, doesn't work in real life. I sometimes get 20 cold calls a day (not every day). By the time I wait 3 minutes for the 3 year old that answered the phone to find Mom who's in the yard talking over the fence and then for her to remember why she called me and then describe her situation following that up with "I'm getting 5 bids" for an $800 job, I'm 10 minutes into it. I have X amount of actual productive work I must accomplish each day. I often have to spend 12-14 hours to get 8 hours of work done since one hand is often occupied with the phone. Something has to give and for me to get the work done that I'm already committed to, I have to ignore a few unsolicited phone calls. I'm sure I miss some great jobs, but I can't do it all. If I don't call back in a day or two, I'm not interested or can't serve you. Don't take it personally.What I take personally is the people that realize I work from my home and if they don't get a personal answer from my office phone, dial my home number. 7 days a week, nearly 24 hours a day, somebody has a problem to offer to me to solve and they want a good price and they want it right #### now.
"Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.
GRANTT LOGANN - THE LEXINGTONVILLE COPPERWRIGHT
http://grantlogan.net/
Looks good on paper, doesn't work in real life. I sometimes get 20 cold calls a day (not every day). By the time I wait 3 minutes for the 3 year old that answered the phone to find Mom who's in the yard talking over the fence and then for her to remember why she called me and then describe her situation following that up with "I'm getting 5 bids" for an $800 job, I'm 10 minutes into it. I have X amount of actual productive work I must accomplish each day. I often have to spend 12-14 hours to get 8 hours of work done since one hand is often occupied with the phone. Something has to give and for me to get the work done that I'm already committed to, I have to ignore a few unsolicited phone calls.
Amen, brother!
Wow, 20 calls in a day. That's eye-opening, and I can see that for you it would be impossible to call everyone back. But I'm glad WNY was happy I said something. And, like him, I'll shut up on this topic now, cause I want to hear more about how MR T is doing. It's really uplifting to see a guy take take a big scary step in life and be a success at it.
>>>>>>>>It's really uplifting to see a guy take take a big scary step in life and be a success at it.Yup - hopefully he'll be getting 20 calls a day he can't return soon.
"Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.
GRANTT LOGANN - THE LEXINGTONVILLE COPPERWRIGHT
http://grantlogan.net/
r --
You're not being rude. That's good, solid, common-sense advice. And the kick-in-the-pants I needed. I appreciate you taking the time to write.
I am making that phone call first thing in the morning (it's really just one potential customer I've left dangling ... the others I've been slow getting to their projects, but have kept in touch with).
Don't want to be a hijacker here ... I'm gonna start another thread dealing with my current project. And hopefully get some helpful feedback on construction technique, business, etc. This is a great forum.
Allen
thanks for that update. keep it rollin'. Have you considered getting a helper or maybe subbing some of your work?
I sub out plumbing, larger drywall, and roofing, so far...
I want to be able to the work myself...
I don't want an employee until I can afford to treat a good one the way I wanted to be treated.
"The truth, when told does nothing but bolster a mans character."
I can see you've been busy. Have you had a chance to read the finance books everyone was recomending? I ordered some right away(they may have addressed their messages to you but they were talking right to me;) ) Found out I was making about a 4% profit not 40% like I was thinkingLOL. Could be worse though I do love my work.
>>>>>>>>I don't want an employee until I can afford to treat a good one the way I wanted to be treated.With that attitude, when you do have some, you'll have good ones.
"Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.
GRANTT LOGANN - THE LEXINGTONVILLE COPPERWRIGHT
http://grantlogan.net/
cute blondes, cute brunettes, whatever. They're all trouble.
Fortunately, I have an easy way to keep in line. I know my wife will kill me if I mess around. Even once.
Glad to hear you're doing well . But it sure took ya long enough to make the leap <G>
yeah no I keep thinking I shoulda done it years ago...
I'd be in much better shape fiscally, mentally and physically..."The truth, when told does nothing but bolster a mans character."
well, at least you finally got smart
better late than never
I know my wife will kill me if I mess around. Even once.
Even once? Man that's bogus.
"The thing that makes it great is the fact that any one of these guys could go off the deep end at any moment and start hacking at people with a deer antler right here on the subway."
Seeyou 06' When asked for his thoughts on going drinking with a bunch of guys that he met on the internet.
she's a tough old broad
and I hope she never reads this
Think the Pie chart might be skewed, Westchester county NY. vs Elmira NY.
"Don't ever make the mistake of confusing people hiring you because you are cheap with people hiring you because you are good."
Guess that explains all the cheap illegal constructions workers around here.
Congratulations, sounds like a good week. May they all be like that. Where is upstate NY.
Technically speaking here in the northeast United States anything north of The Bronx is "upstate New York" so you could live in Mt. Vernon, Pelham, Bronxville, or Yonkers and say that you are from upstate NY.
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Jerrald, I sent you an e-mail through here a while back regarding job scheduleing, wondering if you recieved it and had any thoughts?
CAGIV -
"Jerrald, I sent you an e-mail through here a while back regarding job scheduling, wondering if you recieved it and had any thoughts?"
Hmmnnn,... I either got it and overlooked it (thinking it was just one of the "Message Notification from Breaktime" messages) or it snuck by me when I was transitioning from my old desktop Mac to the new one I am on now. Either way I apologize, but I missed it.
But I do have some thoughts on scheduling that I have been writing about because I recently read a few things online elsewhere that I thought were really bad advice and I was working on a short paper to explain the reasoning why. I get back to it soon but as a by-product of the discussion in the Markup costs, Or what would you do... topic here I've been writing a paper on the two different kinds of markup comparing them in different pricing scenarios and I just haven't quite finished it yet (and yeah I'm watching the Yankees-White Sox game tonight when I could be finishing that paper off but I guess that's indicative of where I put my priorities!).
If you still have the email in your Sent folder feel free to send it again directly to me via my Paradigm-360.com email address.
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Wow I just replied to you but it got all manged and cut up so here it is again:
CAGIV -
"Jerrald, I sent you an e-mail through here a while back regarding job scheduling, wondering if you recieved it and had any thoughts?"
Hmmnnn I either got it and overlooked it (thinking it was just one of the "Message Notification from Breaktime" messages) or it snuck by me when I was transitioning from my old desktop Mac to the new one I am on now. Either way I apologize, but I missed it.
But I do have some thoughts on scheduling that I have been writing about because I recently read a few things online elsewhere that I thought were really bad advice and I was working on a short paper to explain the reasoning why. I get back to it soon but as a by-product of the discussion in the Markup costs, Or what would you do... topic here I've been writing a paper on the two different kinds of markup comparing them in different pricing scenarios and I just haven't quite finished it yet (and yeah I'm watching the Yankees-White Sox game tonight when I could be finishing that paper off but I guess that's indicative of where I put my priorities!).
If you still have the email in your Sent folder feel free to send it again directly to me via my Paradigm-360.com email address.
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yeah, I don't understand that one.
I have friends in the Kingston, NY area, as well as north of Syracuse. They all think they live upstate.
And they're a long ways apart.
growing up near Buffalo, we always considered upstate as north of the Thruway
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I was just in Midtown Manhattan yesterday looking at a possible stair job and I was introduced to some of the people in the office needing the stair as being from "upstate". Geez...yeah upstate maybe but just 40 miles.
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we could end all the corfusion and just let orange county and NYC and LI secede...
Upstate could then be called Adirondak or Wine
"The truth, when told does nothing but bolster a mans character."
Yeah, Gerald has it right. Anything north of New York City, which is pretty much the entire state excluding Long Island.
Then there are subdivisions of Upstate. The far northwest part of the state is The Niagara Frontier. The southern strip that borders Pennsylvania is The Southern Tier. The central part with all those skinny north-south lakes is The Finger Lakes Region. Etc.
I think Mr T is in Elmira, which is considered part of The Southern Tier of Upstate.
I'm in Western New York, which, according to Rochesterians includes Rochester, but according to Buffalonians, does not include Rochester. The Niagara Frontier is a part of Western New York, which is, of course, in Upstate New York.
Sometimes folks in the rest of the state consider Westchester and Rockland counties as "Downstate," but folks in NYC would not.
Quiz on Friday.
Allen
Thanks, now where is my aspirin?
"Downstate" is really anything south of 42nd Street. But then again there are those who will also argue it means south of Canal St! The geography nomenclature here in NY is just tough for outsiders to understand.
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