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A good friend of the family is looking to get rid of a 20 year old Craftsman radial arm saw. I took a look at it and it’s been well taken care of. They’re asking $150 for it and I was hoping to get some input from someone who has more experience dealing with power tools than I do.
Another question I have is with a raidal arm saw can you easily make cuts lengthwise? Ex: If I have a 4×8 foot piece of plywood would I be able to cut it into two 2×8 pieces without a lot of difficulty?
As of right now all I have for power tools are a cordless drill and a hand-held jigsaw, so this will be quite a jump for me.
Thanks.
Replies
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You won't be able to rip a 4x8 sheet in half with a radial arm saw. get a table saw for that or use a circular saw. I don't know about that particular model but most only have a maximum of 16" crosscut capability and when, assuming you can with this model, you rotate the head to rip you'll most likely only be able to rip around the 16" range. Also I saw recently that there was a recall on the older craftsman radial arm saws. I don't know if yours would fall under that recall but basically it was due to inadequate gaurding and people lopping off parts of themselves. Emerson electric, who made the saws for craftsman during this time frame is offering a retrofit kit. you would need to contact sears or emerson electric to find out more. I use my rdial arm for cross cutting and doing half laps and dadoes in leg pieces with a stacked dado head. It works sweet for that but they are a mother... to set up.
*Without seeing your saw, this is speculation based on my own older Craftsman radial. Yes, you can rip 24". As delivered, of course, the saw can only rip to just over 16"; however, you'll quickly notice that the table is in two halves, a front half that's affixed to the frame/stand, and, a back half that floats. "Half" may be misleading, it's probably closer to 3/4 and 1/4. That floating back table is what holds the fence against the front table and is tightened by two tensioning screws at the very back. You can very easily modify the rear table to move the fence back for ripping. BUT ONLY FOR RIPPING !!Other things you'll want to know: 1) replace the fence with a 3/4" poly fence, make a few in various heights. For ripping, you'll need a fence that has NEVER been sawn through - i.e. never used for cross-cutting. As an aside, when it comes time to make a new table, make the entire table out of poly. When I do this, I move the fence position out about 2" as you'll rarely cross-cut more than 12" and the extra distance from the blade is both comforting and makes it easier to line up for a cut. 2) if you put a fillet in the table to move the fence back, take the time to dowel or vee-groove the front table and the fillet, doesn't have to be tight, just enough to stop the fillet from penting up. 3) There are two blade positions: in-rip and out-rip - unless you really need the max width, use the in-rip (motor out-board/blade in-board, more clearance for push-sticks, fingers, etc. as well as improved line of sight). 4) No matter what anyone tells you, it takes two people to rip sheet goods with a radial saw (I was going to say "rip safely", but I just can't - see below). Having said all this, and having helped several people set up a saw for ripping because it was the only saw they had; I wouldn't use a radial saw to rip ply unless my life depended on it. One notch up is to "rough" rip using a skill saw and then "edging" with the radial.
*don't buy the radial arm saw...you don't own a skill saw yet... that comes before the radial arm saw..and $150 will get you a nice one....see a tool review for a good skill saw..
*Mike - I forgot to mention in my original post that I will be getting a circular saw in the next 2 weeks. We get a $100 GC at a store of our choice for a year end bonus and I've got my eye on a 12 amp Skil saw at Sears.
*I gave up on my radial arm and sold it. You need to have it set up and not move it around, and I never had enough room. And it always made me nervous. I would rather rip sheets with a circular saw and a straight edge than try to shove em through that sucker. If I had a big shop I might wish I had it back. $150 is too much, (in my opinion).
*If all you own is a cordless drill,and a jigsaw, I would tend to spend some money on medical insurance. Maybe one of those voice activated emergency call devices( "help, I've just cut off my fingers and I can't dial the phone"). Seriously though, the only thing you want 20 years old is....a 20 year old woman. Craftsman stuff should be pushed off a cliff. That was 1980 stuff, and it was really bad. We are not talking about the good stuff(1950-55 or so)
*had a 9 inch craftsman... then a 12 inch Dewalt...still got a used 10" craftsman set up in my garage...but NO ONE uses it... too heavy... the tools we got now are better...it was nice for daddoe.....take a pass on the saw.....
*I agree with Phil that a radial arm saw will cut at least to 24".The problem is all the weight from the overhang. Either get a helper or perhaps one of those roller supports. Make a rough cut first. If you need a 36" wide piece, then rip off 11 7/8".The Radial Arm Saw is the King of saws. It can do everything: drill holes, turnings, 61º bevels, dados, fine furniture joints. You just have to be inventive with jigs.I'm always surprised that professional carpenters don't move a RAS to the site the first day and remove it after the final punch list item is done. A cross cut [miter] saw can't do dados. A table saw isn't handy at lopping off 8' pieces.As for the safety issues: keep your hands away from any possibility of getting in the blades path. Use hold-downs to handle small pieces. Don't try to rip pieces of stock [shorter than 2'] without a jig - the blade can pick up the end and hurl it across the room at 45 mph.I've used a Craftsman for 15 years. Is it in good condition? Go for it. Sear's is sometimes good at having the spare parts.Peter
*A RAS is best used as a boat anchor, if the boat isn't very large or valuable. It is mediocre at crosscutting (and is almost impossible-to-impossible to set up to cut perfectly square), and dangerous to use for ripping; a circular saw and a decent guide will give you better and safer results (BTW, add a few bucks to that gift certificate and get a decent professional model like Makita or Porter Cable...you won't regret it). Figure on adding something like a sliding compound mitre saw for crosscutting up to a certain size, and a tablesaw for crosscutting larger pieces and ripping, if you get serious. There are a couple of brands of RAS that are in a different class, but they cost thousands. The only use I can see for a RAS today is cutting rough lumber to rough length....even then, a circular saw does it just as well.Had an old Dewalt...traded it for two axes and an adze. Got the better of the deal.
*...just HAD to do it, didn't cha?
*But I betcha before the sliding saws came along, you thought your radial was the handiest piece of equipment in your shop.
*You came here with 10 fingers,leave here with them. Forget the radial; and get a good circular saw, Makita,PC, or Milwaukee.
*I AM SO FREAKIN' TIRED OF PEOPLE BASHING RADIAL ARM SAWS!!!myth 1: They're dangerous.Fact 1: Properly used and set up, they are considerably safer than a table saw fro crosscutting and just as safe as a chop saw. Ask yourself, if the stock catches, which way does it go?myth 2: They're inaccurate.fact 2: Properly set up, I can do work on my father's old DeWalt (though, admittedly, not my Craftsman) as accurate as ANY table saw. People just don't know how to set them up.I am one of the last of the true lovers of RAS's. I've been using them for all forms of wood working since I was 12. I have NEVER been injured by one. It needs to be respected properly. I think this is way they frighten people. They're not nearly as idiot proof for the hurried and inattentive user as a chop saw. The only dangerous feature I can see is the shaper head, and that's mostly for lack of kickback insurance. Properly used, a good RAS can crosscut without holding the stock. If you're interested in learning more go to http://www.mrsawdust.com Get the book.But then again, I'm justMike, the idiot DIY guy
*hey mike.. i'm not frightened and i always got the accuracy i needed...it's just not a production tool suitable for teh jobsite anymore..it was in the '70's & early '80's.. but not anymore...and his $150 is better spent someplace else..b but hey, whadda i no ?
*Yes, I'd agree that with the alternatives available today, it's not the thing for the home builder, though I'm not one. If this guy only has a jigsaw and cordless drill, he's no pro.I was thinking about my rant and realized that I didn't add much information useful to the original poster. so...Buying a RAS in no particular order:make sure that the locking detents that allow the arm to swivel are fairly tight. These are the weak points of the craftsman saw. There's an adjustment on the back of the arm where it meets the post that the slop can be taken up. Make sure that all the guards are in place and function correctly. Make sure that the raising / lowering mechanism works smoothly. Check to see that the locks for the arm swing and the ripping swivel act positively.Knowledge in using it is VERY important. If you don't know what you are doing, they can be dangerous. The book at http://www.mrsawdust.com is fantastic.All in all, the craftsmans (unless you get into the 1950's model cast iron saws) aren't that great. I only have mine because I got it for $25 with a day's cleaning and adjustment time plus a new table and fence. $125 frankly seems somewhat steep, though I'm a cheapskate. They can be had for less. I love the versatility of them, but the old DeWalts are MUCH better saws. The cast iron models are the ones you want. The square arm models are pretty good, but the older rounded arm models are the bees knees ( models MB or GW). So, Mr. Smith, you're right, they ain't the thing for production home building today where speed is everything. But for us more serious DIY people, the versatility of the machine can't be beat.
*One thing to be aware of in getting a used Craftsman RAS is the recent recall notice from the Consumer Product Safety Commission (Release #01-031). The saws involved are 8-, 9- and 10- inch saws sold from 1958 through 1992 and 8-1/4 inch saws sold from 1990 through 1995. The recalled saws were sold without a guard that covers the entire blade. You should visit the CPSC website at http://www.cpsc.gov or Emerson Electric's (manufacturer of the saws) website at http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com.My personal take on RAS's after owning a Craftsman 10" for the last 13 years is that I would buy a sliding compound miter saw (not available when I bought the RAS) and a mid to upper level portable table saw (one that will rip 24" wide). When you consider the number of adjustments necessary to properly align the saw, it can get very frustrating and discouraging during the initial set-up and when it gets out of alignment. You will need to invest in a framing square that is truely square to get an accurate set-up.I have sucessfully ripped sheet goods with the RAS by myself, but with a nearly 7' wingspan it is not as difficult for me to handle the long pieces as it would be for others. I found the RAS handy to cut 4x stock in a single pass as well as the ease in which to cut dados. If you try to crosscut too fast you may find the saw will climb on top of the wood and bind (always a wake-up call to pay better attention and work slower). Also, if you rip too fast the saw may kick your piece back at you. (I put a nice dent in the wall one day trying to rip 2x stock.)The RAS has served me well over the years, but I'm ready to move on. If your interested, I'll sell you mine for $149.99. Good luck in your decision-making and remember: Tools are an investment, you should try to get the best quality that you can with financial resources available. A cheap deal is not always a good deal.
*It was a Craftsman RAS that threw a workpiece at me and dislocated my thumb about 20 years ago. I was out of work for nearly two months. In theory, any bit of wood that got bound in the blade should have been thrown away from me. Maybe it was and got me on the return trip. But it got me.I remember an article in FWW from about 12 years ago on the dangers of particular tools. The RAS was involved in lots of accidents. Ron
*I traded a beat up B&D 10" chopsaw for a 1959 Dewalt 9" RAS 4 years ago and I love it. Granted, it stays in the shop. I have a 12" Dewalt and a 10" Makita slide for the site. This old saw, after a half a day of tinkering cuts dead-nut. It's great for dadoes. I leave it set up for quick cutoffs. My shop is small, 1/2 the garage, but I have this on a movable base and when I need to, I roll it out into the driveway and set up extensions. It's still quicker that getting out the portable and setting up a table. Would never think of ripping plywood with it though.My thoughts, Kimball
*Wrong. My feelings about RAS are based on using a bunch of them, in different shops; never had and never will have one set up in my shop or one under my control. The one I had was inherited, and passed on...it's now doing some good in a shop were performance isn't critical.
*Go ahead and get a radial arm saw! These guys are just blaming a tool for causing accidents when they weren't paying attention. Every tool is dangerous, every tool is safe. Pay attention and count yer fingers when yer done. Cut the plywood with a good circular saw and a straight edge. Don't rig it up to cut off yer arm like Phil does. It works for him......wait a few years to see if it'll wotk for you. Pick out a better circular saw. Keep sharp blades on all the tools. A RAS will be plenty accurate and suitable for you....unless you plan on selling furniture or running a remodeling business out of your truck by next week. Then the mobility or accuracy may not be up to snuff! Get it, have fun, respect it and all yer tolls for the amount of flesh they can take! Jeff -for all the anti-RAS poeple.....in a tool safety class a few yrs ago......the number one shop tool involved in accidents....the drill press! Bet that was pretty low on your deadly list!
*ouch!
*So you were doing your compound mitre cuts on a table saw ? Is it really that much more accurate ?
*I could easily be wrong about this, but I recall from the old FWW story that the band saw was pretty high on the list, too. The trouble seems to be that nobody is scared enough of a bandsaw to treat it with care and attention. Ron
*Yes. A quality chopsaw is more accurate than a RAS up to a certain size; wider pieces would typically be built up or done in a shop situation on a tablesaw, which is absolutely more accurate. I wasn't working in the heyday of the RAS (say pre 1980); in 2000, if you're doing this for a living, why use obsolete technology?
*My RAS I got for free. The guy claimed it was possesed. He showed me what he meant by taking a piece of wood and attempting to make a cut. The piece took off across his yard. After I took it home and ducked a few flying pieces I discovered the blade was on backwards. After messing with it for awhile I discovered it would do whatever I needed. The only drawback is the set up time.
*I use one because I have one and, using a dado, does a terrific job at cutting tennons on big stuff (like stairs for decks). I probably wouldn't go out and buy a new one (well maybe an Original Saw 12" if I had a use for it); but, if I were offered one for a beginning home shop at a good price, I'd probably take it.
*Speaking of Radial Arm Saws: I've been using a different technique with mine for a couple of years now and prefer it; never heard it mentioned by anyone else before, but wonder if anyone else does it: In this method, you push the saw thru the wood, rather than pull it. For example, cross-cutting wide (10" plus), thick (6/4 plus) hardwood sometimes results in the blade and carriage cutting at a predictable, moderate rate till the blade is about halfway thru the cut, then suddenly self-feeding at an aggressive rate, headed toward valuable parts of your body, sometimes stalling in the workpiece. To prevent it, you have to try to pull the carriage forward and hold it back at the same time. In the alternate method, you pull the carriage forward, position the wood against the fence behind the blade, switch the power on, and push the blade thru the cut. The cut is controlled at an even, predictable rate, feeling similar to cross cutting on a table saw. I would not recommend using this method for production cutting, because it would be dangerous to be constantly shifting the workpieces against the fence behind the running blade. But for one or two cuts in hefty workpieces, I prefer it. Guess this doesn't really answer Anderson's original question about ripping with a RAS, but thought I would throw it in for whatever it's worth. I would welcome any comments on the safety, etc., of this procedure. GPW
*Then you are cutting from the bottom of the work-piece to the top and likely splintering it like crazy (you don't get this at the bottom because the saw's table encloses the work-piece). Also, I don't like the idea of having the saw's rest position way out in harm's way.
*The story we got on the drill press was ....get this.......the most common "accident" was from people trying to stop the spinning bit "faster" by grabbing it after hitting the switch off! ......That's too good to be a lie! As for the bandsaw....or bone cutter....I can see that all to easily! I always have to reming myself to watch the blade and not get the fingers too close.....easy to do when you're just flowing thru a cut! So far so good! Jeff
*I learned to build cabinets with an old Craftsman RAS. We ripped plywood only up to 16". We ripped all the stile and rail material with it. I still have all my fingers (he says as he knocks on wood). All we used the table saw for was busting the plywood in half. The table saw was an old Craftsman also with a clamp at the end of the fence to hold it straight. Yeah, the tools were primitive, but you couldn't tell my looking at the finished cabinetry.I bought an old Sears 10" about 20 years ago that was made in the 60's for $150.00. That's back when $150 was about a half weeks take home. I still have it, and have it set up next to the lumber rack in our shop for crosscutting rough stock. We also use it to crosscut shelves and stuff. It's pretty accurate. I used it last to make a bunch of crosscut dados in some deck post to accept the railing. If someone is set up on the table saw doing something, it still comes in handy.I'll probably never take it out of the shop. I can't now, I built it into a bench and made a router table out of the legs. Oh well.It's a good tool but like any tool, it needs respect and skill to be used to it's best advantage.I've known more people to lose fingers on jointers more than anything else.Some guys are scared of them. I'm not, but I do have a LOT of respect for them.Ed. Williams
*gpwestmoreland - I've never tried that, but it sounds like a good technique to me. Then you are more or less cutting with a controlled skill saw, same blade action at least. And if tear out is a worry, you could certainly turn the stock over, like you would with a skill saw. That's good thinkin'.
*i think my RAS is an 80s model. I bought it new and now use it just as Ed does. If it wasn't a Craftsman, it would probably have a perment station in a bench like Ed's. The darn thing has scare the heck out of me afew time, or more correctly the ds operator scared himself. i bought my first RAS from a friend for $100. i think that and carpenter for a neighbor started me on this sinfull path. Good luck and go for it.Dave
*G.P. and Jim,That method is known as "push-cutting," and is a lot safer in the cut because, of course, the tool doesn't climb the work. Back in the 80's, the demonstrators at the Forrest sawblade booth in the woodworking shows always recommended this technique for safety and control=cut quality. The point is valid that a poor or dull blade will splinter the top in a push cut, but a sharp blade will make a beautiful cut. You cannot crosscut as wide, unless you move the fence way back, which prevents storing the blade behind the fence.I bought a new Craftsman 10" radial saw in 1981. It was my first stationary machine, and it cut a lot of wood. It did not take long to learn that most operations took too long to set up and the accuracy was poor. I sold mine as soon as Hitachi came out with the C8FB, because I was only using it to crosscut at 90 degrees, and it took up too much room in my small shop.I second the motion to avoid ripping on the RAS. Some of my scariest moments were trying to rip 2x on mine. Forget about it. Not only is a straight edge and circular saw safer and more portable, it will do a cleaner job, too, if it is a quality saw. I couldn't buy a tablesaw soon enough after trying to rip on my radial arm!$150 is too high unless it is in heirloom condition, or sports a $100 blade in good condition.Bill
*Like Bill just said -- Buy a heavy table saw first. I didn't and managed to do everything on my radial arm -- probably the same vintage but I really had to work much harder for the rips. Those moulding cutters really do work and managed some awesome casings, wainscotts and custom trim with some seriously lame wood. Scrap and throwaway stuff back when I had more time than money. A radial arm saw has the ability to bore long straight holes edgewise in boards for such uses as those invisible support shelves bore 3" into the wall studs slowly {with a level and square for reference) and not an inch more Sonny, a couple of pieces of #4 rebar and a bit of epoxy. I mounted a router base attatchment from Sears on the head, put on my router, put in various pins placed strategically in the table and I was able to do some kick butt production jobs not possible with my router table --- I remember doing some rotary stuff on blocks in which I drilled a shallow pilot in the back and set pivioted on a pin. I didn't have a plunge router at the time so I had to crank the head up and down, but it worked good. I remember making those neat little teardrop shapes in hardwood by just sliding the wood thru on sloped fixture tacked to the table. The radial arm saw can be a great woodworking tool if you learn to adjust it, get comfortable with it, and above all make a point of using it as often as possible. Otherwise it will just take up space and sit fallow. It can be as accurate as you care to make it. Get to know it. Learn it inside out, rip and dado on your table saw when you can and that $150 investment could be returned in short order especially with a production job or two. I'm sure I got thousands of dollars use out of mine.Good Building,Jim Malone
*You may want to check out this web site http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/. This is for 1953-1994 Sears and Emerson saws. They are making a Safety kit for these saws. Find your model number before you go online and it will tell you if akit is available.
*I bought a Craftsman RAS some 25 years ago when I was still in college (no, I don't remember why). I thought it would be pretty versatile, and it is. The auxiliary spindle works great with a sanding drum - I once made a jig that let me "plane" the edge of 2x stock with it. It's great for cutting dados. And it will make perfect crosscuts when tuned up and aligned properly -- until you move anything (swivel, tilt)! I dug it out this weekend to cut some fire stops (my insulator insists I need them with blown cellulose in 9' x 6" walls to minimize settling) which don't have to be that accurate, right? I can cut and rip (1/2" off the back edge -- studs are 1/16 shy of 5 1/2) very quickly.The key to ripping is the back edge of the front table must be perfectly square with the blade (when in rip position). If not the rip will jamb the blade, or will get loose as it outfeeds. My guard has a very good anti-kickback device with a bevel-edged wheel that runs in the kerf, and kickback pawls that really grip if it tries to kickback (which it won't if the table is aligned properly to the blade).But as said by others, you must have a great deal of respect for a RAS. Don't use cheap blades. Adjust the guards properly. Make sure it is tuned up properly. If you can't do this (or won't take the time) -- don't buy it.
*I started with a Craftsman tablesaw (didn't know any better) and a used Craftsman radial arm.Personally, I don't find the RAS terribly scary or difficult to use _safely_, but I do find it very difficult to use accurately. Seems that the tracks on which the saw actually slides are not adjustable, and typically are not straight. This means that when you pull the saw toward you, it goes off line a bit - not much, probably 1/32 - 1/16", but enough that you'll never get 2 pieces to form a perfect joint. I have only heard this complaint (and plenty of times) about the Craftsman models. Luckily Sears can fix it, but it would cost me more than the saw itself....Having said that, I think a RAS is a fine addition to a shop, just not a Craftsman RAS.Good luck,Doug
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A good friend of the family is looking to get rid of a 20 year old Craftsman radial arm saw. I took a look at it and it's been well taken care of. They're asking $150 for it and I was hoping to get some input from someone who has more experience dealing with power tools than I do.
Another question I have is with a raidal arm saw can you easily make cuts lengthwise? Ex: If I have a 4x8 foot piece of plywood would I be able to cut it into two 2x8 pieces without a lot of difficulty?
As of right now all I have for power tools are a cordless drill and a hand-held jigsaw, so this will be quite a jump for me.
Thanks.