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I just got the new Tool Crib catalog. What a ripe-off. The “New Heavy-Duty Porta-Plane Kit” sells for $399.99 at the Tool Crib. I purchased mine for about $200.00, the same “kit”.
It’s a good tool , but $400.00 bucks? Come on PC give them a break. . . . . . .
© 1999-2000
“The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it.”
Aristotle
Replies
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Joe:
I think it's called inflation!
Just another examply why, if you need to bill your time out at $50+ an hour, you don't need to think twice about it.
*$50+ per hour probably isn't enough, because of all the whineing you'll here when you present your rate. You have to add in extra for haveing to listen to all the complaining.What I don't understand is that the cost of building materials can go up and a customer won't say one word. But, if you raise your eate to keep up with inflation, everybody thinks you're overpriced trying to stick it to em.This used to bother me, but any more it doesn't. When I get a real whiner, I just politely explain that I'm not a charity that donates labor or materials. Not all customers are that way. Fortunately.It's just a few.
*Frank,
View Image © 1999-2000
*Frank and Joe,Whenever we have to buy high dollar tools, and keep buying them because we wear them out, the "customer" usually thinks this is the cost of doing business. Well, in a way it is, but this "cost" of doing business is damn sure going to be reflected in the labor rates I charge the customer. Frank and Joe have it worse than some because cabinet tools/bits cost so much, and get used so much. Capital outlay for keeping a cabinet shop going is high (to say the least). Your prices have got to reflect that.Here, a dedicated cabinet shop charges an outrageous price even for the small cabinets. They have to. That is one reason why so many homeowners tend to go to the box stores and purchase cardboard and particle board cabinets. They may be a little cheaper, but they are cheap imitations of a real quality cabinet. And their prices are going up too. This just shows the mentality of the homeowner trying hard to save a buck or two. They usually end up paying very close to what the cabinet shop was going to charge them anyway.It sure pays to shop around on tools nowadays. It ain't hard to save $100.00 on a tool just by shopping around a bit.Near the ditch...James "Loving Life" DuHamel
*Around here, no-body beats the box stores (Lansing / Home Depot) on tool prices - they guaranty it. But I hate to think what the prices will be like once the local tool stores (or one of the box stores) go under.
*I'll tell you something very confusing about tools. I do probably 60% of my work t+m. If the need arises for a tool I don't own, I rent it and bill it to the customer. I don't think anything of it, and neither do they. But after I rent the same tool a few times in a couple years, I recognize that I should buy one, I do, but then never raise my hourly rate for that tool. Take that plane, for example. Beautiful looking tool. And judging from the testimony of pros, the right tool for certain jobs. OK, so if I bought that for 400.00 (the goin' rate) I would have to raise my rate 20 cents an hour for that to pay for itself the first year. Do that with the 6 or 8 power tools I buy in the average year, and before you know it, my rate is up 2.00 an hour, but I'm just marking time. Pretty crazy to think about, huh?
*Tool crib is now owned by amazon.com. If you want a 4' stabila level, it's cheaper there than anywhere else. But, Stabila is hard to find anywhere else.The 9118 is the best made "door" planer around. We have several that belong to our company, and some of the men on our crews own their own. It's a speciality tool that I don't think you'll find at HD or the other DIY stores. I'm sure that you can find them used for less, but I am not a fan of buying used tools.The cost of tools is just the cost of doing business. I buy them as the need arrises, and don't mark up rates to reflect a new tool. We once had a 10" cherry crown moulding to install as part of a panelling layout in a bank building. The only thing I could find portable enough to haul up the elevator was a saw buck. I had to have one quick. I bought one, paid full retail, because I had to have it now. If you have time to shop around, then you can find the deals. They are out there if you have the time to look. I've still got the saw buck, and we use it all the time. It may not have been cost efficent for that one job, but over the years it has earned it's keep 10 fold. I was more happy having the tool to make light the work than I would have been having a few extra bucks in my pocket.BTW, I once got a great installation job over a another company because the builder told me that I was better tooled up than the other guy. It makes a difference. If you bring in a bunch of ragged old tools and beat up ladders, it doesn't inspire confidence in the client. I know that after the job is done, it doesn't matter what the tools looked like, but I want to get the job before it's done.Ed. Williams
*Joe, I still have the same email address. Don't know what might of happened.
*Hi Frank,
View Image © 1999-2000
*Im glad I have a thread the vent in! Just replaced two 14.4 DeWalt batteries. Both over 4 yrs old( one may have been 5), so no complain there. The bitch, I bought an extra about two years ago, $40. The two new.....$65 plus tax each! Almost $140 for two freakin batteries. Then the helpful sales guy says.....that's alot. They musta gone up AGAIN. Last month they were $55! Thanks Buddy, I needed that! Real fun $140 tool purchase....can't wait to get home and play with my new batteries! Jeff
*Good Point Ed, about being properly tooled. Once in a while I look around and realize that my stuff is old again. Then I cry as I head to the store.blue
*Jim, it's time you set up a second company. A tool company that rents it's stuff out to you. Then, you can buy the tools, rent it to yourself and still bill for it. I know a fellow that made a lot of money doing just that. He bought constructin equipment (excavators, cranes, etc.) and rented them out to his construcion company that he owned with a partner. They then sold their services to Marathon oil. The guy that owned the equipment made out the best. Buying, or rather investing, in big equipment seems to pay off!blue
*I'm pretty fortunate in that i work so slowly renting is not an option and therefore i am forced to buy more tools to save money.
*If you have an hourly rate that includes your wages and overhead, why not designate a percentage of the overhead to a tool fund. If you want to get religious about it, you could actually set up a separate account for it and make deposits once a month say. If you're a tooljunkie that needs discipline not to buy everything you see, this might help keep expenditures on "unnecessary" tools in line...you only buy when the money is in the fund.Alternatively you do what I do. .. pocket the money as it comes in and shell out when necessary.I don't think any of us in North America should be complaining too much about inflation these days. It's been in the very low single digits for years now and both our Central Banks are dedicated to keeping the screws tight. . . wouldn't wanna be living in Israel, or Europe for that matter.-pm
*Hey Joe, I got em.
*Frank,
View Image © 1999-2000
*I did not mean to imply that I raise my rates every time I buy a tool. What I meant was that my labor rates MUST reflect my overhead, which includes upgrading and purchasing needed tools. Cabinet shops go through more blades, bits, and sanding belts/discs/paper than anyone else. Their labor rates must reflect these constant costs.When I shop for tools, I don't necessarily go right then when I need the tool. Whenever I am out picking up materials, I look around and see what's available, and how much it costs. When the need arises, I know where to go, and how much it will cost.near the ditch...James DuHamel
*Hi James, Thats very true. Back in the beginning of February, a customer was building a new house being his own GC and was hiring all his own subs. He had asked the guy doing the framing if he knew of any cabinetmakers he could contact. As it turned out, he called me, and we sat down and went over all the details of what he and his wife wanted for kitchen and bath cabs.I gave him a price based on what he was wanting and as it turned out, the price I gave him was about $500 dollars more than Kraftmade cabinets from Lowes; however, my price included countertop decks and the Lowes price did not. Plus I was able to keep all door openings on the upper cabs an even consistant size unlike Kraftmade that fits whatever size boxes they can get onto a specific size wall.
*Now is tool up time for me. Work is plentiful and prices are up.Some of my tools are getting old but still function fine, but those maybe need 'em maybe don't are the one's I like to get in fat times. I don't figure in tools by the hour, but if i need a special tool for a job, I bid it in and then if i get the job i can tool up. Batteries are the one thing that really irks me, I mean i can buy a plane like Joe's for $200 ,and it will last forever but batteries, $140 dollars and they start degrading as soon as i plug them in. Skip
*Hey Blue,It can be a pain keeping so many tools working and available. The amount of carpenters we have on the payroll and the amount of work they are doing is scary if I stop and think about it. Fortunatly, I'm to damn busy to stop and think about it.One thing we do to try to keep the company tool cost down is to encourage the guys to supply their own speciality tools. We will buy it for them, and pull $35 a week out of their paychecks until it's paid for.....no interest. Great deal all around for everybody.Ed.
*geez, isn't the entire tool around $180 or so? (Don't know what its for, but their drill is around that.)So, 2 batteries = 130. add 50-60 for drill motor, case, and new warranty. Make you want to put new cells from radioshack into those little carriers, no?Are there others who believe "tool cribs" prices went up shortly after they were acquired by amazon.com? Adam
*That was my initial thought! Some how the math didn't work out! Have both the drill and saw. Thought about buying a secondhand tool and using the battery, and realized that's probably why the tool was for sale in the first place!Ahhhhh I'm addicted and I'm screwed! Jeff
*Joe:This was explained to me about a year ago by the local tool store manager. PC discontinued the Porta-Plane (why, I still can't figure out), but, due to demand was going to start production at an increased price. Guess they finally got around to it. Same tool, same carbide cutter, same metal case, same dies, same production line, TWICE THE MONEY!!!You're right, the old kit cost $189.00 + tax last time I priced one. I have an old Rockwell version that I was going to replace only to find out they discontinued them. Guess I'll just keep getting it fixed. It's not like there's a great selection of door planes out there to choose from.
*Some tools are so good that they will run forever if cared for properly. The porta plane is one of them, I think. Would you rather that the gods of planned obsolenscence tinker with your favorite plane? I think most tools that are mass marketed at the big boxes are engineered for a five year lifespan under commercial duty, if that. I really enjoy the big, beastly heavy duty power tools, like PC belt sanders, Skil 77's, etc. I'd gladly pay four hundred for that plane if I used one enough. Any one ever see a palm grip planer, by Rockwell I think, with a bladed cutter head ( I think someone made a similar plane with an abrasive drum ) that was made years ago? An old timer I've worked with had one of these, basically a power block plane, and man was it handy.Tom
*Jeff, those damn batteries are like tires. No thrill buying them, but you can't go anywhere without them. When the batts gave up on my Bosch drills I threw them on the shelf. Think maybe I should send them both to Luca. Joe H
*A friend works for a large construction firm here. He is a foreman, or super or whatever you wan to call him, he's the lead man on the job.He buys them and then rents them to his employer through real invoices, etc. I don't think the employees, or the company even know it's him. The nice part is that he can keep an eye on them and make sure they don't get too abused.-Rob
*BG 71, The Porter Cable people said the the tooling set-up to make the 9118 had worn out, and they didn't think that the few hundred that they sold per year was worth re-tooling. They did it at the request of people like you and me. We can make a difference. But it's gonna cost.Ed. Williams
*OVERHEAD! I realize now what a killer it is for small businesses.If you are T&M, or if you don't factor overhead in your estimates, overhead is in your "labor" rate whether you think it is or not! In the end, you pay for everything.But if everything is lumped under labor the rate starts to sound kinda high to folks who are used to thinking of labor rates as being the after-expenses price a company pays them. Perhaps charge a separate % for overhead to make the labor rate sound OK. A lot of auto shops charge a flat 5% for non-itemized and difficult-to-tabulate shop materials, seems sensible.Quite often leasing/renting equipment is very wise for tax reasons, hence its popularity even when the lease rate is high. It can shift the benefit of the section 179 expensing ($19k/year) and MACRS accelerated depreciation from an entity that can't fully exploit it to one that can. Meanwhile, the lessee can immediately deduct the lease cost as ordinary expense, w/o the disadvantage of having capital tied up. Of course, YMMV (your mileage may vary). It's easy to spend too much on rent -- but you don't have the hidden costs of having to maintain or repair or insure the darn thing, or the lost opportunity costs of having your capital in something you don't need.
*b TVMDCBidding hanging 15 doors and would love to find a used 9118: anybody offering?Thanks,Bill Pickard
*A power door planer??? I never used one.. I use Hand planes. I do mine quicker with hand planes. I have seen doors screwed up by power planers. I use a Bailey fore plane & an old wooden joiner plane.