Every now and then I have a customer who is somewhat able and doesn’t screw us up too much during the renovation, but I still must watch out when they are buying things and trying to speed up the project by doing so. I slipped up.
I have a 8′ opening spec for mirrored ‘bi-fold’, closet doors. The opening wants to be clear because it has a washer dryer AND folding table to fit in it. If the doors are in the way when open it defeats the purpose. Well that would be 2 pairs of 2 connected 24″ mirrored panels . 4′ each making up the total 8′. That is too much weight for normal bi-fold hardware and I was surprised to learn no one makes them for that size configuration and no one apparently makes an accordion set up for such an opening. i.e. 2 sets of 4 -12″ doors.
I researched this and had concluded I would have to custom make them using some heavy duty accordion door hardware and mount the mirrors on 12″ blanks. total costs amounting to about $2,000 all said and done. Then customer has closet & door company supplier visiting to size up for huge walk in shelving system in another room. He says to my client, no problem they have a supplier who can do this door. I speak to him once and make sure that he understands I want clear opening of +/- 7′ when doors open. He says no problem. I make sure they will measure rough opening themselves and send us the door to install. ..
Unbeknownst to me (is that a word?) he then calls the client back and client ends up telling/ordering him some configuration ‘caus udderwise the duhs wud a bin in front of da dryer”. Turns out the closet salesman actually did not understand the need and sold Richie (my client) what my client thought i wanted. Both of these guys did not understand the problem. (The wife did). Now I wasn’t there and my guy installed what came and it leaves her with a set of bi-folds between the dryer door and the folding table.
What do I do? ..
Replies
I am not sure what to do what you have.
But Johnson makes bi-fold hardware that allows the doors to open all the way and fold back against the walls.
IIRC then the opening is the same as the trimmed opening, making 1" less on each side.
He's right, your research was inadequate. Johnson has the hardware you need. I believe that Sugatsune` does also.
Next time - come here first.
now, who pays for changing it? I don't know.
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I forgot to mention.. This is a T&M project....http://www.thesmallbuildingcompany.com
Lessee if i unnerstand this. The customers salesman discussed it with the HO, who ordered the doors directly from the salesman, and your helper installed them when they arrived.
If the HO does not like the doors now, I would offer to remove them at no cost, and refund or not charge for the original installation cost, and tell them they own the doors.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
You get what you inspect, not what you expect.
You're the general. If you're contracted to do the job, and you let someone else take it over, or you're assistant installs stuff that you haven't even looked at, than in my mind your eating at least the bulk of this one. Sorry but I believe as a general it is my job to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen, that's what people hire me for.
"What do I do?"
Take down the doors and hang curtains.
You might consider by-passing closet doors that are mirrored to fit an eight foot opening. Some of them are not very thick.
"You might consider by-passing closet doors that are mirrored to fit an eight foot opening.Did you see the requirements?"The opening wants to be clear because it has a washer dryer AND folding table to fit in it. If the doors are in the way when open it defeats the purpose."
Edited 10/3/2006 10:02 am by BillHartmann
Eddie was right, don't charge for removing those doors. Charging would just add insult to injury.
Tell your clients' husband that if the door company won't take the doors back, you know the name of a used materials dealer that may buy them.
Tell the salesman's boss that the salesman is an idiot for not, at the very least, checking with the contractor actually doing the job.
DML, you wanna come work on my FFIL's house for me?
Call my man Ron Horn at Woodward's Ace Hardware, in Santa Ana, CA. They have a website, and a quite large business selling complete hardware packages to builders. Phone him at 1-888-915-5223, and remember, he's on Pacific time.
I buy all my stuff from them, and have been doing so since '97. Schlage commercial, Baldwin, Emtek, Sugatsune, Johnson, Ives, you name it. Like any good commercial hardware outfit, they know their stuff. No tax, and one low price for shipping.
In our copy of the Susanka "Not So Big House," I outfitted the laundry closet, just as she did in the original, with four 1/6 paneled cherry doors, hinged together and riding on the Johnson heavy duty rotating trolleys, so they all accordian to one side. Your setup will be this, doubled and mirrored, with 1/0 doors.
And after Ron takes care of you on this one, continue to be a loyal customer.
You will likely have to re-hinge and patch some door edges, but you'll be OK.
Edited 10/3/2006 10:42 am ET by Gene_Davis
You folks are really great. It is great to find such varied opinions, tecnical and professional advice within 24 hours. This forum has been a great discovery. Advice and council that is obviously empathetic to the pressures and technicalities we share in this work. I appreciate all your advice. I was just starting to feel bad because that was the second long winded post I had put out in a week.
I hope I was clear in my post that I did take ultimate responsibility. I dropped the ball in at least two parts of the screw up. One part letting the client be so involved. I just returned from site and talking to clients. I basically said to them that "we" have a screw up. I apologized for not catching it as it happened and then suggested I would pay for some of the fix. I suggested we would remove and prep for the new. etc. and would share the new cost. At this point the client turned around and said he saw how he had messed things up.. his wife standing there agreed.. and suggested she could actually live with it the way it was. Then laughed saying she was probably not going to be doing all the the laundry anyway. So right now we have resolved it, sort of, but I would rather do the complete fix so that the irritating door doesn't hang around as a reminder for years after we are gone. We'll see. Thanks again.Arthurhttp://www.thesmallbuildingcompany.com
I think the salesman should take the doors back because he did not order the right doors and the GC should not charge for the original installation. That problem could have been avoided if the GC had seen a picture of what the installation would look like from the salesman. I also like to know exactly what will be ordered. Obviously more than four doors were ordered.If the GC had known there were more than four doors ordered then he wouild have immediately known there was a problem.
Three years ago I ordered some doors that came in with the wrong hand. I had given the salesman a simple drawing of what I wanted so that saved me. There was no doubt that it was his fault. The doors had to be returned and new doors ordered.
There are a few things at play here. It is important to distinguish what they are and who is responsible for each.
First - You control only your own actions. Therefore, those are the only ones for which you are responsible. You can offer clients your ideas, but you can't force them not to listen to others. This means clients are responsible for their own actions and whatever they order.
Second - T&M projects are great for the customer because they only pay for what they order and the time you are working on the project. Thus they can better monitor the $/ progress of the project. HOWEVER – with such a benefit comes a cost - the cost being that they are responsible for cost overruns. Therefore, the HO pays for the wrong material they ordered AND for your installation time. Welcome to the world of T&M.
Third - Anyone who authorizes the purchase of materials is the one responsible for paying for them and confirming what they ordered is what arrived. If they don't want to be responsible for the confirmation, they can have another do it - at a cost - but must offer a model #/ spec of what was ordered. This does not include "the closet doors we need." or "the faucet thing we need." or "the stuff the closet company said we need." It must be a specific model #. Only after this step is confirmed (post-ordering) should you be concerned with its application. Why? Because this should have been addressed prior to ordering and now you are in “following” mode – following an established design specification. Therefore, you install what the Client ordered. If it doesn't work it’s the HO's/ Specifier’s problem, not yours. You installed what you were given.
Possible solution - Offer to remove the doors for a nominal fee. ($50?) Not for free. If you don't respect your time, why should anyone else. The existing/ wrong hardware belongs to the HO. You have no liability for them. Sure, it would be nice to help them recoup their losses but that is going to cost you time and therefore money. Don't offer to make them whole at a cost to you. It's their problem not yours. Keep it that way and the two of you will have fewer of these in the future.
Next, define what they need. Give them a price. Proceed accordingly.
I hope this helps,
Frankie
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