We started a new frame last week. I love a fresh start, a change of scenery, a new challenge. That’s part of what makes the trades so great I think. Anyway, I started taking some pictures of the deck yesterday morning as the guys were rolling out. It just looked like a new canvas to me…. all that Advantec just waiting for new chalklines and walls.
The rest of the pictures are from this morning before the guys rolled in. We had a pretty good day I think. You all can be the judge of that. As you can see, we’ve got all our studs and window/door parts pre cut and stacked in the appropriate areas.
The last picture is one my wife took. It’s my best bud wonderin’ when his ‘daddy’s comin’ home.
This house has some pretty cool features… even in the first deck framing which you’ll see. I like it. I think it’s gonna be a fun house. I’ll post some more shots when we get to the roof. Maybe a few shots of me gang cutting the I joists and later the rafters.
I love framing.
Replies
Damn Brian
Your sites cleaner than the shop I work in, and all we do is build cabinets! Looks like a big house.
BTW, thats one fine looking dog you got there!
Doug
Edited 3/23/2005 11:27 pm ET by Doug@es
I think that keeping the site clean leaves a good impression with the builder.... as you can see, we're also in an existing neighborhood so it's the courteous thing to do. I hate cluttered sites where you can't pull a cord without dragging ten yards of scrap with you.
The house is gonna be close to 5000 sq ft.... I have no idea why anyone needs that kind of space, but it keeps up busy, right? Cabinets, huh? I envy you.
Yup, thats Mulligan looking out the window for me. My wife says he starts that everyday around 5 o'clock. He's a sweatheart. He's four, but still acts the same as when he was a puppy... a 95lb puppy. His mission in life is to play... and he's pretty sure that my mission in life is to play with him. ;)
Brian, you get email through here? If not, email me. thanks.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Hi Cal... yes I get email through here but sometimes it gets sent to my bulk mail by accident. Did I miss something?
Sent you a couple of emails just now, check 'em out. Thanks.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Looks like you did do well.
Pic of the dog is cute.
great pics buddy.
Keep them coming.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Nice looking job Brian.
I want pics. DAILY!! No slouchin'.
That dog's the bomb!! I love those ears!
When DW and I hit the sack, the two cats join us, we kid each other, hey , there's still room for one more animal in our bed............
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
snow, I hate cold. 75 today
yea whats that white stuff all over the place
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
....
Sawdust.
We got another 4 inches or so last night... that's why I'm at the computer at noon time on a Thursday! I got home in time last night to see the 6:00 news... they were saying to expect 10" lasting into mid day today. I scheduled some indoor work for the guys and figured I'd take care of paperwork and errands today. We got 4" and it was over by 10am. Feelin' kinda foolish for not being on site. Oh well.... I needed the day to get caught up anywho.
This has GOT to be the last storm of the year. Waaaaay toooo much snow this year. I think it's the third snowiest year on record in our parts.
You won't be getting any update pics today bro... spent 1/2 the day in the office and the other half running errands while the guys took care of some change orders and punchout on the last job.
Pretty boring.... except for the purchase you'll see in the tool thread in a couple hours. Gotta keep things interesting, ya know.
Get a dog.... you won't regret it. Unconditional love and never a complaint. Mulligan rocks. Next time around I wanna be him! Thanks for the kind words dude.
Nice looking job. Keeping the site clean pays all kinds of dividends. Building in an existing neiborhood has it's own challenges. Anything you can do within reason to keep the locals happy is a good thing in my book. You gotta think some of them were way happier with the green space instead of a new build. You are right about pulling a drop cord. Not fun to have to use two hands!!!!!!!!!! Keep the pics coming. Fun to wtch.
Mike L.
You're right Larso. I've done jobs in existing neighborhods before where the neighbors were hatin' us. Nothing we did.... just the fact that the neighborhood was changing. Resistance to change is a powerful thing.
We got lucky on this one. It was a teardown... "worst house in the best neighborhood" type deal. Everyone was happy to see the dump get carted off. Neighbors on boths sides are cool old retired guys who have both taken an interest in the project. Keeps them busy and provides some variation in their days, I guess. They come out and shoot the breeze with us once a day or so and evaluate our progress for us. It's pretty cool. I gave one of them my cell # to call if the alarm on the trailer goes off. It's pretty amiable. I can't help the machines, but I keep the radio off until 9am and we're cool about what station we play.
Peace is good.
Mulligan rocks.
An Irish German Shepard..........what'll they think of next!
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
hey , brian...
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din't you tell him ? ... " No dancin !"
I did... then I remembered.... he's got a broken ankle... look close.
That kid is tough as nails... fists like cinderblocks... trained in kick boxing and juijitsu (sp?)... and sweet as a kitten. That's my main motherclucker. Love that dude.
Broken ankle and still working?? He'll be getting up from the table as slow as me when he gets older. But that's what ya got to do.
Pa Lease do pictures al the way through on this one.
I'll really try to make the effort Gunner. At least a couple times a week anyway. What usually happens though is that the newness of the jobs wears off a bit and I get bored until it's time to frame the roof. But I will take a bunch of pics.... since you said please and all. ;)
I do a lot of really cool stuff but get to busy to take any pictures. That's my excuse.
Edited 3/24/2005 7:14 pm ET by Gunner
brian... <<< What usually happens though is that the newness of the jobs wears off a bit and I get bored until it's time to frame the roof. But I will take a bunch of pics.... since you said please and all. ;)>>>>
sounds like me... i think its a formof ADDMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
What?
What's a form of ADD?
getting bored with the work... wanting to move on to the next big thing.. ..
if they had invented it when i was younger i probably would have been diagnosed as having ADDMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I was just playin'.... trying to illustrate your ADD remark. Missed it's mark, I guess.
The ADD thing is strange. I constantly find myself trying to do about 15 things at once.... and it ain't multi-tasking. Right now, the TV is on CNN, I'm on line, and I have Roof Cutter's Secrets, a pencil, and a pad of graph paper on my desk while working up a cut sheet from a roof I framed two years ago. Seriously. It takes a lot to keep me occupied I guess.
channeling.. gotta figger how to channel that energyMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, have you done much investigating on the ADD thing? This book
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684801280/qid=1112538563/sr=8-5/ref=pd_csp_5/103-1195175-2566223?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
is good. Seems like many construction/entrepreneur types fit the mold.
Mike
mike.. just ordered it used from amazon..
the best thing about it ( the book) is
i'll be able to stop whatever i'm doing when it arrives and start to read it until the next distraction occursMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
i'll be able to stop whatever i'm doing when it arrives and start to read it until the next distraction occurs
He he--sounds about right!
Mike
I just now discovered this thread. Good job, and good way to use the old guy patrol in th eneighborhood to keep theft down.That photo of your dog - looks like he can use his tail to keep one end of the coffee table clean! LOL
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yea, I should read that book too... but I guess I rather waste time 'talking' with you guys about stuff that interests me - rather than doing what I should do... for example, I need to work on some take-offs today... we'll see if that happens ;-) Matt
hmmm... i did miss the play.. but i'm glad you didn't gimme an emoticon... i'd rather miss the subtlety than get it heavy handed....
one of the things i miss about my mom... a very sardonic sense of humor.. i think it was growing up on the prairieMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
First off, I apologize for not keeping my word and posting more pictures of the progress. Problem has been that there just hasn't been much progress to post. Last week was hectic. Lost Monday and Tuesday to downpours despite our best efforts. During that downtime, the builder came through with his dreaded marker and initiated some change orders which were a real ball-breaker. Things like moving a quadruple 16" X 26' LVL 9 1/2" in the vertical direction..... after it was joisted. We basically took this monster of a beam which was a "joist over" and made it a flush framed beam.... yuck work. That's just one example of the changes we had to complete before making any more forward progress.
This type of work really frustrates me. Isn't that why blueprints are called 'the plans'? I get frustrated easily when working with people who can't see things in 3D and require things to be built before they can visualize how they will look. I shouldn't... but I do. I think that a multitude of c/o's in the framing stage results in a sloppy looking frame in the long haul. I did a decent job of keeping my thoughts to myself though and just initiated the c/o and completed the work... not my place to let my ego get in the way of business.
How do you put a price tag on momentum and morale busting change orders? You really can't. The truth... I charge as much as I can get away with on this type of work and I still lose out to some degree.... it busts up morale, rhythm, and momentum. Morale, rhythm and momentum are everything in framing.
Thanks for letting me vent. Anywho.... Thursday and Friday were very forward productive. I finally slowed down long enough to remember the camera just before I cut the very last bundle of joists for the second floor. Here's a couple pics.....
You'll never get paid enough on those c/o's.
You had to stop the whole job for that. Whadarweinkindergarten??????????
Well, must of been fun playin with the chainsaw!!
Hmmmmmmm. Better keep that baby locked down when the GC's around!
Here's to better weather!
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
You had to stop the whole job for that. Whadarweinkindergarten??????????
You wanna come play with the big boys some day? ;)
Brian,
Just to be clear; you DO know that the Kindergarten comment was directed at your spatially challenged GC right??
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Yeah.... but it was more fun to turn it into a challenge of sorts... dontcha think? ;)
Spacially challenged.... I like that. More and more it seems that some GC's are accepting partial or incomplete plans as "close enough.... we'll figure the rest out as we go". I'm seeing more and more projects, or areas of projects that really should have better specs and have their own detail drawing. As long as the plans will facilitate the aquisition of a permit, they're happy. Good thing they've got a whiz-bang framer to sort it all out! ;)
More and more it seems that some GC's are accepting partial or incomplete plans as "close enough.... we'll figure the rest out as we go".
Of course they are!!
It's cheaper in the long run for them to beat you up on the c/o's than to pay a decent engineer to draw the thing properly! That, and he probably JUST learned what a flush girder is!
Nothin worse than taking stuff like that apart...........looks like a remodeling job now!! And you get to hide all those nice Sawzall cuts with the hangers!
And about that challenge dude..........watch what you ask for, I just might have to come up there and kick your axx. Nails guns, hah!! I'll John Henry ya, or die trying.
I always wanted to see that challenge carried over to house framing!
Have a good day Brian, give Mulligan a scratch for me will ya?
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
And about that challenge dude..........watch what you ask for, I just might have to come up there and kick your axx. Nails guns, hah!! I'll John Henry ya, or die trying.
Niiiiiiiice. Now that's the spirit! Mulligan is well... mumma's giving him his weekly brushing as we speak... he's lovin' it. It was 50 degrees at 7 this morning.... it's about 60 now..... I'm heading outside to enjoy it. You do the same.
Brian.. do i have to go out to my truck to see if my bags are still there ?
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Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 4/3/2005 9:59 am ET by Mike Smith
You might wanna check..... ;)
I had a box with three PC deadbeats in the back of my Jeep at JLC for you.... forgot all about it until it was time to go home. Email me your address and I'll send them off. They're back in the pile in my basement right now.....
Your method of cutting I-joists beats the heck out of the way we did it--one at a time with a circular saw!
That's how I've done it for years too... that picture is the first frame we've used this method on.... light years better than any other method I've tried. It's heaven.
So - do ya "measure twice, cut once" on those gang cuts? ;-)
Here is a what is probably a stupid Q: In your initial series of pics, in the 2nd and 5th pics (#s 575 & 569), the floor system in the foreground... Looks like it is set down on a lip inside the poured concrete foundation... There is only about 2" of the edge of the floor system showing... Was the idea to get the floor that was 2 risers down from the main floor, having it as close to grade as possible, while still maintaining the 8" or so of clearence between the bottom of the siding and the finish grade? Hope that made sense... Matt
You nailed it.... it's a dropped family room... two risers down. That funky overhand/bumpout is an eating area nook off the kitchen which over looks the family room. There's a 4' wide, two riser stair set on either side of the bump-out. The bump-out will have posts and railings seperating the two rooms. It's a pretty cool detail. That family room ceiling height is a little over 11'.
Measure about 10 times... then cut.... and still second guess yourself sometimes on those gang-cuts!
>> There's a 4' wide, two riser stair set on either side of the bump-out << Sounds like it would look cool, but I can just see myself falling down or up those little set of steps while distracted, trying to do a few things at the same time - like walk, chew gum, and carry something...
I agree with your earlier statement though - what does someone need with all that space unless they have 9 people in their family? I think at one point in my life that kind of stuff used to really impress me, but nowadays, I'm more impressed with people who live the "right way" what ever that is... maybe a bit more efficiently, so they have time to do stuff besides being married to their home and it's everyday maintenance chores... I guess for the people who make the mega-bucks they must hire all that stuff out and it is less of an issue... Still, at some point it all seems like a ridiculous waste... Matt
"How do you put a price tag on momentum and morale busting change orders? You really can't. The truth... I charge as much as I can get away with on this type of work and I still lose out to some degree.... it busts up morale, rhythm, and momentum. Morale, rhythm and momentum are everything in framing.
Now you've said a mouthful there. When I ran a production framing crew, we dealt with this cr@p all the time, and it used to drive me crazy. Materials shortages and errors were one of the worst (the builder ordered all materials, we bid labor only). And the change orders. Nothing like remodeling a job you just put together yesterday! "OK guys, break out the sawzalls and the cats paws, demo time." Yeah, that's a real motivational tool!
We'd start off with a bid that we could only hope to make a few bucks on, and by the end we were always behind. Another thing I used to hate was "flop-plans". They'd hand you a set of plans, and tell you to reverse it when you built it. Because they were too cheap to have it drawn up the way they wanted it. Pain the @ss to work off those "flop-plans"!!!
The momentum factor was big reason we went to pre-cutting roof packages. We were bogging down after the joists were run, and everyone was doing "pick-up" type work, while I sludged away at the roof. Not good. Keep the nail bangers on the production stuff, let one or two good guys do the pick-up later.
And while I'm on my gripe podium, I used to get a little upset with all of the arches, bug-outs, coffers, plant-shelves, and chinese-puzzle fireplace surrounds these builders would throw in, but not want to pay any extra per sq. ft. for.
Edited 4/3/2005 1:37 pm ET by Huck
plans, schmans....we don'tneed no stinkin' plans.....we got funny papers enough already...
Nice work!!! I don't know how I missed this thread :-( I'm still reeling from daylight savings or something
How do you put a price tag on momentum and morale busting change orders? You really can't. The truth... I charge as much as I can get away with on this type of work and I still lose out to some degree.... it busts up morale, rhythm, and momentum. Morale, rhythm and momentum are everything in framing.
That is the perfect line!! That is what Jasen and I were talking about yesterday and today. On the little house we finished today finally, we took about 2 weeks longer than we should have. Everyone got sick and different times, so we never had a full crew and usually only had half. We started out great, but then . . . .
We start the bigger one tomorrow and it'll be a fresh start, except two things, one guy is out with a sprained ankle and the other one is in NY for a few days.
Momentum is great when it's there, but tough to get back when it's gone and easy to lose. I guess that is why it's a law, Inertia eh? :-)
Anyway, your jobsites are my goal. Talk about clean. You make us look good.
OH, and the chainsaw is a work of art isn't it? You look like you've been doing that for a long time.
You wanted more pictures... so here we go....
Another week, another round of shots. I spent three days this week trimming out gables myself while they were on the deck. Two of those days were 12 hour + long hauls. We had a great week... the fellas had 45 hours before we started this morning. They kept knocking gables together in front of me and I came behind and trimmed 'em out. Yesterday we got caught up on the rest of the exterior walls, tied in sheathing, and started the interior bearing walls. We got a late start today with the rain and knocked off early.... it was a good week.
Here's the first round of shots... exterior w/ gables up. Those main gables are currently spanning 35' 9" and were built laying on the deck and then raised. We asked way too much from the Proctors and wouldn't do it the same way again with gables this big. FWIW, those gables aren't even finished yet... from the exterior pics you can visualize that the rakes will continue down another 10' ish to terminate at that front overhang/porch ceiling where the dormers are nesting.
The master bedroom gable is a 12 pitch spanning 26' and the garage is another 12 pitch and is just a baby at 24'. Main roof gables are 10 pitch while the dormers are 12's.
Trimmed my freakin' brains out this week.....all gables have 1x8 frieze, w/ 1 3/4" band (or bed?) molding, 1X8 rakes, 1X8 eaves, and 3 5/8" crown running down the rakes. Too bad the builder wanted those goofy returns.... had to terminate the crown in a self return at drip edge line... best I could come up with...
way cool , brian... i like what you did with the crown..and agree those boxy blocks detract from the returns
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you know.. even setting those boxes in one plane back (letting the 1x8 rake lap them instead of sitting on top of them ) would improve their appearance....
and since the lapped that joint would shed water instead of transporting itMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
That's not a bad idea, Mike. I'll have to remember to suggest that next time I see these returns called out. I don't get it... we see a ton of that style return ('style' might be a stretch) on beautiful homes. I even offered to do returns w/ a little hip roof at no additional cost and the builder didn't want 'em.
I kinda like running crown once in awhile... it always takes me the first rake to get back in the swing of it. I have a confession to make... this is the first time I actually figured out how to really cut that inside miter at the peaks. I always boogered it with scrap until I figured out the angle. You have to figure the compliment angle to the spring angle as your spring angle. I used the Bosch angle finder and just entered the spring angle in as 52 degrees, slapped the angle finder against the top of the rake intersection and voila! It's amazing how simple it seems now that I look at it, yet I've struggled with that angle for a few years and could never figure out why my bad math wasn't working. I still don't really understand the math behind it, but at least I've realized that it's an upside down inside corner.... and the Bosch does the rest.
I'm glad you approve of the self-return termination of the crown. Builder wanted me to blow the fascia past the rake, scribe the crown to it, and then cut it with the jig saw.... know what I mean? I politely dismissed this idea and asked him to let me try to come up with a better solution. I'm glad he liked it, cuz his detail would've looked awful and I would have had to stop posting pics of the progression of this job out of fear of you guys ribbing me for the next year about it!
He (the builder) is a really really great guy. He owns/operates a very successful excavation/site work company. Has 20+ employees on the payroll. He's just getting into the spec house biz. I hope he's successful at it because he's a great guy to work for, albeit a little green with the onsite decisions. At least he's open to opinions and gives me a little freedom to get creative. He's also a very good businessman as well as tradesman and offers up advice freely. It's shaping up to be a good relationship and it seems he's a good guy that I'd like to keep in my corner.
Oh yeah... and his checks are good. That helps too.
Nice work Brian.
I need to come and visit you sometime and see you build the gable on the deck. Never done it or seen it done, although I've been out of framing for quite sometime.
Can you utilize the loader somehow to lift the bigger gables??
And I hope you railed or covered that opening in the floor by now!
Good hustle.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
eric.. he was using 20' Proctors for the big gableMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Duh.........
I read that and saw it wit me own 2 I's
He did say it was rough too......... a wee bit overextended weight wise I believe.........just thinking out loud about using the machinery somehow!I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Ok Gunner, now here's the good pictures! I think the ones of the inside of the framing are much cooler to look at compared to the exterior shots.
I think the interior pics give a better sense of the shape and space of this house. It was real tough to get a picture of the exterior of this house that really gives you a good look, but these second floor interior shots do a better job....
You be the judge...
Looking good. Keep em coming. Glad you had a good week after all the snow.
Brian,
I know I'm late to this thread, but I've got some questions.
First off, I'm stealing your gable trimming. I really really like the way you did that. Nice work!!
Now here is my question, on your gable walls, how come you frame a standard height wall and then the gable from there? I'm just curious about that. Is it because of the height? We try and run studs full height from the bottom plate to the rafter. We can get 20' 2x6 so that makes life easy. I'm just curious.
It really looks good. I am IMPRESSED!!
Don't mean to interupt Tim,
But how would you tie in the gable wall at the intersection of the adjacent front and rear walls?
I'm nowhere near yours or Brians league, but I'm used to overlapping the double top plates.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
I would run a metal strap along the outside of the wal that bent around to the side walls and nailed into the plates on the side wall and blocking in the gable wall.
We may do a rake wall or two on the house we start tomorrow. I'll try and remember to take pics for you.
Thanks Tim... I appreciate your compliments. RE the gable studs.... I dunno. It's just one of those things.... I've always done it that way and that's how everyone around here does it. Not a very good answer, but it's the truth. Occasionally we'll (and I mean very rarely) come across a set of plans with a gable where the room has cathedral ceilings and the wall will be specced out for balloon framing, so I'll do it. But I can only remember two houses off the top of my head where I've done that.
It actually makes more sense to balloon frame it when we build our gables on the deck. With the 'broken' studs, we create a huge seam in the wall at the top plate. When we start cranking those heavy suckers up off the deck, the wall wants to fold at the seam. That's why we nail those 'L's (we call 'em strongbacks) made out of long 2x4 stock on the outside of the gable for support.
It's also partially because of the availability of stock. I'd say only 25% of the houses I frame have 2x6 exterior walls... the rest are 2x4 and 16' stock won't cut it with most of the roofs around here. Pretty much everything is 10 and 12 pitch roofs or a combination of the two. The main gable there in the pictures spans 45'6" now that we've got the rest of the front rafters installed down to the deck.
I forgot about this thread and am impressed with how the job is coming along. Kudos! I have been reading and rereading the posts and referring back to the pics. What an education. Now that stick size has been raised - Is this job framed with 2x4's or 2x6's? It looks like 2x4's. Is that right?Oh, and one more thing: How come two of the sawhorses in the first set of pics had their legs sided full with plywood instead of just the top 10"?Thanks for the practical knowledge.Frankie
Frankie,
This house is all 2x4 with the exception of a couple interior bearing walls and a couple interior plumbing walls which are 2x6.
The ply on the horses just makes 'em a bit stronger. With the forklift on site we sometimes set mother-loads of lumber on the horses.... squashed more than a few by overloading them. We also use the horses as a last line of defense when raising the gables... no such thing as too strong in that application.
Soo... take the week off? Or just didn't get anything done? Need me to come up there and put a boot in someones azz to get a a move on, and get some pics?
Who Dares Wins!
Sorry for not replying sooner.... just been busy. We're winding down on the house... punch out and change orders. Also gearing up for the second floor addition and other work at my place.... and it's Red Sox season!
Promise to take more pics and post on Friday. It's looking real good. Just found out today that the windows are still almost two weeks out.... bummer.
Looking good..lookin fun..I miss framing some days, but not TOO many. LOL
I think I stubbed my toe on yer saw horse base, can I have a cast too?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Sell your cleverness, Purchase Bewilderment"...Rumi
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