I checked out a job today where the customer wants to ad on to an existing deck. She wants a bid and supposedly I am bidding against 2 other contractors.
Knock out a section of railing and continue the deck around the side of the house to a side door. It amounts to 35ft long x 5ft wide, some stairs and associated railing.
The existing deck joists are too small for the span. Also, the posts from an upper deck land on the lower deck and go no further. The whole thing is sagging.
Question: If I tie into the existing deck with a new deck and literally put my name on the project, am I liable for the potential failure of the original deck, even if I contractually disclaim otherwise?
Also, there is an electrical meter box that will be partially covered up by the new deck. What am I required to do with this? Access panel? Move it up higher on the wall?
Thanks.
Replies
I'd chicken walk away from that.
LOL... me too. There's gotta be other work out there. And he even gets the privilege of bidding against two other guys?!?!View Image
Keep the responses coming. I'm still wondering if I'm "liable" for future existing deck failures?
Grunge on. http://grungefm.com
If you decide to take this one, and I wouldn't, make sure you have a good paper trail. Letters to the owner describing the deficiencies of the existing deck, preferably with photos, written responses from the owner, etc. Also, I'd submit a bid with a schedule of values attached that includes the cost for bringing the the old structure up to snuff. If they decide to delete items from your scope as you've defined it, I think you'll be in better shape. But I'm not a lawyer, so don't take my word for it.
Also, in every area I've worked, the power companies require at least 3 feet clear space in front of the meter, whether it's inside or out. They might go for a door (doubtful), but I can't imagine them accepting any sort of access panel that was more complicated to open than turning a knob.Like I said, I'd pass on this one. Let the other 2 guys take the risk.
I'm still wondering if I'm "liable" for future existing deck failures?
How much are you willing to pay to find out if and when the stuff hits the fan.
Just proving you aren't responsible can be expensive.
I'm still wondering if I'm "liable" for future existing deck failures?
Only if you answer the door when the constable/deputy comes to serve the papers (and are solvent when it comes to trial).
It sure "sounds" like there's a very real possibility that your "inner voice" is telling you this dog has not had its shots. It won't matter if it's distemper, rabies, or feline leukemia <g>--the best protection wil lbe to have been working on a different project down the street.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
" I'm still wondering if I'm "liable" for future existing deck failures?"
I'm no lawyer ... but I bet you would be. I bet at least one real lawyer could make those charges stick.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I'd walk away if the customer didn't want to repair/replace the existing structure.
Doncha wish your girlfriend was hot like me?
I had a similar situation in California about 5 years ago. I replaced deck boards on the rear of the house and flashed and etc... told the HO about the front was same and needed repace/fixing, she passed. 6 mos. later a get a letter from her attorney advising of lawsuit! I dug through mountains of contracts/bids to find and to my relief I wrote about it in a change order for railings on the back deck which she signed and has a copy of.
Faxed over to the attorneys office never heard a word since.
Point: Splain it on paper and if it involves your working on a mistake to begin with, Write it up for a complete proper replacement and new work.
They don't take it, walk away...
( her 260lb hubby stepped through the front deck and I should have advised/replaced was why she was gonna sue)
Edited 4/27/2006 12:49 am by LEMONJELLO
>> Also, there is an electrical meter box that will be partially covered up by the new deck. What am I required to do with this? Access panel? Move it up higher on the wall? << I'm about 95% sure that NEC requires a certain amount of clear area in front of a meter base. As far as moving it, not unless you are a licensed electrician and you would still have to have the power company involved.
Forget you even heard of this person. Cheap, permanently disabled clients don't give good referrals.
DCS Inc.
"Whaddya mean I hurt your feelings, I didn't know you had any feelings." Dave Mustaine
(I AM NOT A LAWYER) In Ontario, Canada, in terms of building code requirements, if you alter the original structure in any way, you are liable for the remaining structure meeting code. So I wouldn't touch this job. If I was desperate, and needed the job, I would get a notarized acknowledgement from the homeowner that you have made her aware of the potential failings of her existing structure, and that you assume no liability for any result of the original structure remaining in place.
But walk away...check that, run like the wind! I doubt this job would pay nearly enough to make it even worth giving a second thought to.
If someone did take this job, did reasonably inform her, she should accept the responsibility, but why do that when a fancy lawyer will sue instead. Go Shakespear.
Glen from Canada
Once you touch this job, it's your baby. Since this job will undoubtedly go to the lowest bidder, it will be tough to do the job the right way. The only way I would do it is on a "it's my way or the highway" basis.
I can see by reading y'all's responses that it is unanimous! Thanks for the input.
As for the electrical, my electrician today said the meter box needs to be between 4 and 6 feet from the working surface, so since the deck is going up, the box must go up.
Here's what I'm going to do:
I'm going to document the problems with the existing deck in a letter. I'm going to tell the HO that she needs to get the deficiencies fixed by a licensed contractor (up to code) and that it needs to be inspected by the county bldg inspector prior to increasing the size of the deck. Then I'm going to bail out on the entire deal.
I love you guys.
Grunge on. http://grungefm.com
Why bail out if you could get her to agree with that? Do the whole job right, or not at all.
Okay. I'll bite. Do the job. Get the appropriate paper trial. Notarized letter sounds great. Don't attach your deck to the existing. Get the power situation fixed, charge well, then do the work and walk away. (Make sure it's up to code and inspected.)
If the fit hit's the shan, you have the appropriate warnings and did nothing wrong. The owner's lawyer won't touch you because your paperwork buries the owner! I only did about 22 years of law in trial litigation, so I could be wrong, but I would love to represent you.
Now, how big are yours? How confident are you in your ability, and do you really want to do the job?
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
(NYS Attorney id reg 1915818)
I don't want it, NOW!
I have much other work closer to home with less potential problems. To get the permit for this job, if I am awarded the job, it's 56 miles one way. Today I worked .6 of a mile from the house (bathroom remodel) and will be for another week. (My lumber yard is .75 miles from the house). You could say, I'm spoiled.
I can pick and choose my jobs, and after the great feedback here, I'm choosing to work easier, less complicated projects closer to home. That would exclude this sagging, safety hazzard, lawsuit waiting to happen.
Grunge on. http://grungefm.com
I can't argue with that logic either.
Now, once the letter is sent (certified mail RRR) the owner is on notice and really should be taking care of the problem.
Catch you next time.
Don K.
"I'm going to tell the HO that she needs to get the deficiencies fixed by a licensed contractor (up to code) "
uh ... so that's not U?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Yeah, it's me, but it's not gonna be me. I stated licensed because there are a lot of handyman, do it yourselfer's who work for cash, who I would like to see dry up. I'd rather she use "us", not "them".
Grunge on. http://grungefm.com
Edited 4/27/2006 9:03 pm ET by RRooster
Why waste your time on a letter, etc? A quick phone call to politely decline is sufficient.
Man, you guys are relentless.
The letter is to create a paper trail, to document the fact that,,,,,,,,,,,,you know.
She could still sue me when the thing collapses and kills someone, because I looked at it and "didn't say anything". The letter says otherwise.
Case closed.
Grunge on. http://grungefm.com