My old truck is a lady, and when she decided it was time to shed the rear axel, she picked the dealer’s shop as the place to do it.
I mean, how much more polite could a truck be? She coulda been a bitch and dropped it while I was doing 120kph on the highway with my son in the truck, too…but she waited till I took her in for brakes and did it as the mechanic lifted her off the ground. The front frame bracket for the left leaf-spring assembly just disintegrated and the wheel stayed on the ground as the truck rose ceilingward. Gotta give her points for that, even if it did cost me a grand to get a new bracket installed along with the rear brakes….
But she’s going on 18 years old, and such things must be expected, and repaired, especially with all the road salt around here. I’ve run the numbers more than once, and even with all the mistakes I made in choosing bad mechanics early in our ‘marriage’, I still haven’t spent more on repairing her than the payments on a new one would have cost.
But here’s the problem.
When I went back to the dealer to pick up the old lady, all fixed up and rolling, the owner of the dealership came over to see me as I paid the bill. He’s a pretty good guy and we know each other fairly well.
“Damn, T.H.–when are you gonna get a new one??!”
“When you find one you can sell me for payments I can afford, that’s when.”
Last time I went in, he had told me that with 0% financing he could make me a deal I could afford, and I told him he couldn’t because the model I need would cost $55K and that worked out to $800-900 a month. He said don’t be ridiculous, then punched in the numbers…got halfway through and said, ‘Okay, forget it, you’re right.’
Even he didn’t realise how expensive the trucks have gotten.
But yesterday, he had something different.
A 2002 2500HD King Cab/Long-Bed, with cap, dark blue, all the extras (6.0 litre engine; 4WD; A/C; electric everything except mirrors; towing package; bed liner; yadda yadda)…all for a bit under $9 grand. Add tax and all that crap and it’s basically $10G. Add five years of financing at 8% at it’s $14. Payments work out to a tad under $225 x 60 months.
And when I went out to look at it I thought he’d pointed to the wrong truck, because it looked brand new. I mean not a scratch, not a fleck of rust, nothing.
But it’s got 311,000 kilometers on it. (For those of you who don’t speak metric, that’s almost 200,000 miles.)
I road tested it today; it’ll need shocks, and the dealer himself told me it’ll need ball joints. Plus I’ll have to have a ladder rack fabricated/installed because there isn’t one. Everything else I tried worked…but it’s still got 311,000 km on the clock.
What scares me is not the brute milage in itself. My old blue lady has more miles on her frame than that; no one even knows how many–she’s on her third odometer, lol.
No, what scares me about this deal is that the truck is still running on its original engine and tranny. The transfer case was rebuilt 6 months ago by this dealer, but using jobber/rebuilt parts so no GM guarantee.
Engines and transmissions wear out. This is normal, and not a criticism. But my old truck and I have already been down that road and all that’s been taken care of. I pretty much know I shouldn’t have major engine/tranny problems for at least another 100,000km. Body and suspension, yes; drive train, no.
But on this ‘new’ one, I don’t know how long it’ll be before I’ll hafta drop $3000 for an engine job or $2500 for a tranny with this new one. And with my luck, it could easily be one right after the other….
The payments would just barely squeak into my budget without making me suffer too much. I’d have to sell the old one privately; it’s too old for the dealer to wholesale so he can only give me the scrap price ($500) even tho he knows I put a grand into it yesterday.
WHAT DA HECK DO I DO???
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice….
Edited 7/25/2007 9:20 pm ET by Dinosaur
Replies
WHAT DA HECK DO I DO???
First thing is look outside your local area. I use http://www.trucktrader.com to look for used cream puffs. Also, I'd look far enough south to get out of the snow belt.
Think about taking a plane ride and driving back. There are many big pickup trucks running around in southwestern cities, some for work, others just for show. You could find a low mileage, older model which has heavy depreciation due to age but not use. That might be a perfect fit for you.
Most trucks build for the Canadian market are substantially more heavily built in several areas specifically because of the climate in which they will operate. Heavier electrical systems for cold-weather starts, for instance; also most use heavier rust-proofing and make the most exposed body panels out of heavier steel.
No US-market truck could survive up here as well as a Canadian version.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
No US-market truck could survive up here as well as a Canadian version.
Are you sure that's not part marketing hype, meant to keep you from looking outside your area? Also, is that true of all manufacturers?
I can accept that there are heavier batteries and cables, maybe some other winter related items like preheaters but we have some areas of severe weather in the States too. Why not double check the specs on US trucks?
Maybe you'll find a good used one with a big package of options which suits your needs. As I said, there are a shid load of big pickups in the USA.
I have never heard of that before about the trucks built better for the north, Were they ordered that way maybe, here on the Oregon coast our rigs rust out way before the engines need work, Best to go inland to buy a rig, I cringe when i see people driving in the surf, sometimes with brand new cars
Well, I'd been delaying the decision until my flippin' insurance broker came up with a quote on what Fire & Theft and/or Collision would add to my current cost...and had to call her three times and insist just to get her on the phone. Yesterday at 4pm I finally told the receptionist to cut through her voice mail because I needed to talk to her then, not the next day.
All she did yesterday was promise to call me back at 8:30 this morning.
She finally called at 9:30 and told me the VIN didn't match the year/model and that her computer wouldn't allow her to proceed with the quote until I verified it with the dealer. She refused even to give me a ballpark figure, so I called the dealer to verify the numbers.
He told me the truck was sold last night at 7:30 pm.
I can't bitch at him; I hadn't put any deposit on it and he's not in business to store trucks.
Oh, well. One less decision I've got to worry about. Except for which broker I'm going to hire to replace the incompetent idiot I'm currently signed with....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Bright side: That ride of you'rn looks much younger than it is. :-)
Too bad about the incompetent agent...obviously a woman with a future in ski hill mgt.
edit: btw, how much more would your insurance coverage have been? Of course, you would have had to purchase much more collision coverage...
Edited 7/26/2007 8:27 pm ET by Pierre1
Never did find out how much the insurance would have cost. I called her right back three minutes later to tell her the deal had fallen through...and she was on the phone.
Receptionist asked me if I'd like to talk to her voice-mail.
I said no, I'd already had that pleasure and it wasn't.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Maybe you can try buying one from the Forest Service south of the border. The Texas Forest Service auctions theirs off twice yearly. I've never bought one but another contractor I know has bought two for about 3000-5000 each.
These trucks are built to goverment specs and are one hoss of a truck. They even have vans for sale too.
It comes in any color.
As long as its green.
I'm getting close to 200K on my '96 GMC 1500. I do a lot of towing with it and the previous owner obviously did too, 'cause it had a fifth wheel mount in the bed, previously. I'm guessing it was used to pull a travel trailer.
I've had the transmission rebuilt, but the engine (5.7) is as strong as it ever was and uses no oil what so ever.
Get another mechanic to check it out. If it's a good one, it'll roll quite a while yet. If it was a lemon, it would never have gotten that many miles on it.
http://grantlogan.net/
I've never met a man that was owed as much as he thought he was.
Could you keep the old one for parts and storage...meaning that if the 6.0L engine in the new truck gives up, you could install the 5.7L from the old truck?
First look into drivetrain compatibility issues with the engine/tranny (the new truck prolly has a C6, less likely a 700R4)...the switch over might mean shortening or lengthening the driveshaft. Can the computer in the new truck deal with an old-style V8...probably not.
Still sounds tempting, if only for the increased reliability (less downtime) and the sharper looks image-wise. It'll put some snap in your days!
My '90 actually hasn't had that much downtime, and has been very dependable...since I learned not to let just anyone with wrenches work on it.
Reasons for wanting to upgrade are (a) this one sounds like a particularly good deal (book price on that year/model is 13500+); (b) it's clean clean in the body department, and of course rattles a lot less when I hit those nids de poule, (c) and yes, I would like to look a little better on the road; and (d) I wonder at what point something so major on the old one is going to let go that it won't be reasonable to repair it. (And if/when that happens, is there going to be something decent available I can afford?)
So far, nothing that's broken has been in that class. I know the next thing coming is the exhaust system; I figure I've got another month or so before that needs attention. Then an idler arm.... But at what point does it stop making sense to fix the old one? That's the hard question to answer.
Reasons for being gunshy on the purchase I already stated. But at least I would have the benefit of my past experience in re-drive-training a used truck if (when) it happens (ie: bite the bullet and go to the dealer; don't go to LeCavalier or Tranny's-R-Us....)
Dang. If only I wuz Rich I wouldn't have to think....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
How many miles do you rack up a year ?
If you are like me and its 30,000 or better, a truck with 200k on it is going to cost me on average an additional 300 bucks a month in repairs and maintanance issues. So it may be more accurate to assume that $225 + $300 = $525. Would that payment get you a truck with less miles?
( I know this b/c we track our vehicle costs per month on our trucks. A truck hits 150k and you had better budget that 300 a month cause sooner or later you will need it. And we dont beat our trucks up either) Just my $.02
Maybe you dont put the miles on like that in which case it is probably moot.
BTW that 6 liter (why do you guys up there insist on spelling "liter" wrong ?? <G>) is a good motor, know a couple of guys here that just love em to death. Little hard on the fuel maybe.
Have you looked at a diesel?
Naive but refreshing !
Now that's the sort of hard information I was looking for. Glad you posted, Woody. Fleet trucks are a good barometer of how maintenance costs are related to mileage.
Actually, I do very little mileage annually. From November to early April, I do about 200km per week. From April to November it's less predictable, but generally the same or a bit less. I may or may not make one big road trip per year; it I do it'll be 3000 km or less total. So total annual kilometrage is under 13,500km (or about 8300 miles).
As for the gas milage on the big engine, I asked the dealer about that and he said vaguely, Oh, it's not so bad....
My old 1990 5.2 litre gets about 550km per 100 litres (in-town), which I believe translates into about 13 mpg. What has been your fleet experience with the 6.0's?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I had a 2004 ford F250 4x4. Engine was a 5.8 and I only got 11 mpg. That was with a 115" wheel base.
The 4 wheel drive does eat more gas than a 4x2.
Some dealerships will give you the previous owners name so that you can call and get all maintainence records.
Here in Texas, we have a web site called carfax.com that lets you enter the info of a specific vehicle and it will tell you if the vehicle was ever wrecked. My brain + his brawn = a perfect team
If you do consider importing from the US (which can be a good deal with the dollar as it is), make sure it is one that you are allowed to import.
http://www.riv.ca is the official registrar of imported vehicles, with all the rules.
More and more people are buying new cars in the US and importing them, but you have to make sure it's a permissable model. There are some surprises on stuff that is not eligible.
(with absolutely no experience with either of those models . . .)
i'd buy the new-used truck, and keep the old one. With the mileage and repairs on it, you'll be hard-pressed to find someone to buy it for more than $500. It means more to you than anyone else. And that way, if anything happens (costing $3000-$5000) you've got something dependable to use until you scrape up enough for repairs.
Point of reference: bought a used Dodge Neon 3 years ago (2 years old) at an auto auction. Tried to sell it at a profit (DW's place of work had closed at the time and i thought it might bring in some extra $$$). Even though it had less than 20,000 miles, one ding in the rear bumper kept people away at considerably less than a comparable car at a used dealer price.
Any guess what i'm driving now?
edit: one of the other posters mentioned getting a truck from below the snow belt. Remembered that a work associate recently sold his truck (Columbus, Ohio) to someone down south. Through one of the trade/buy/sell papers. The person he sold to had mentioned that the Katrina/New Orleans fiasco had flooded the market with bad vehicles with bogus documentation. The buyer had actually gone looking in northern markets because he wanted to avoid getting a formerly submerged car. Something to consider.
Edited 7/25/2007 10:08 pm ET by shtrum
Good cheap trucks and vans can be had at auction via the fed's Crown Assets Disposal sales.
These auctions are held monthly in big cities like Mtl. and Ottawa. You could go to one of these, place half a dozen or more low-ball bids (i.e., below Black Book wholesale). If you 'win' say two of 12 bids, you are free to buy one or the other, or none. You can also call the particular dept's fleet manager and get a vehicle service history before you pull the trigger.
That's how it worked for me in 1990 anyhow. A good time to go is in March or April, at fiscal year end (April 30th iirc), when depts purchase replacement rigs - there is a huge supply. Expect to bid against dealers who will also low-ball every single time.
you need to find someone like me. 2001 F250 V10 crew cab, 46,000 miles. I walk down a flight of stairs to work, so i don't rack up the miles. Bought this truck with the intention of driving it till it drops. Now with gas being almost $3.00 per gallon I've thought about selling it but know I won't, some other guy might.
Kevin
Dinosaur,
You've outlined all the issues. Here's some quick information that might make a differance.. newer engines properly maintained (oil changed when required ) are easily capable of going to 500,000 miles.
To do that the oil should be changed every 3000 miles I prefer to use synthetic oil (mobil 1) and change every 5000 miles makes an oil change go from $20. to $50. though, MY trans, transfer case, differantal etc. on my 4wd is original and never needed more than ruetine maintinace. I have replaced one alternator and the cats once. That's it! a good check of the health of an engine is a regular check of fuel mileage.. if it remains basically the same year in and year out the engine is in good health assuming oil pressure is where it should be as well as temps.
I live in Minnesota so my climate is about the same as yours..
500K from one of the Generals current power plants?
Not even if your life depended on it!
maintenance doesn't correct poor design I've upped my standards...now up yours
caveman,
Well stop on by and check out my odometer then..
The whole trick is proper maintinace. (Oh and I believe in synthetic oil like Mobil 1)
That engine is plenty durable if not neglected.
By the way that so called poor design does a pretty fair job of beating all the competition at endurance races like Le Mans and Daytona.. Cars like Ferrarri, Porsche, Aston Martin, etc. etc.
(Not to mention a fair representation at the stock car events like Nascar.. )
WHAT DA HECK DO I DO???
Dance with who brought you. At least a little longer.
Thing about vehicles is they build 'em everyday. And.....
there will always be another good deal some time.
"What's an Arkansas flush?......It's a small revolver and any five cards."
Yep.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I don't pay a lot of attention to what trucks cost, but $10K for an American-made vehicle with 200K miles on it seems like a helluva lot. At that age I would expect a lot of maintenance costs to add to your payment, and I wonder why you wouldn't just go with something a little less equipped and get a brand new one. My current work rig is a stripped F150 4x2 8' and it was $17K brand new out the door. You can get very low rate financing on new vehicles as opposed to what they charge for used.
david---- you think like I do on this.
Base model F 150, 8 ft. bed.
they practically GIVE them away new.
personally- i might prefer a new toyota tundra----but from a strictly business standpoint for me it very hard to beat the f 150. It does everything I need it to do and the2 i have had in my career have been very dependable. current one has 75,000 miles on it- i have changed the oil, replaced brakes, and put new(used) tires on it---and that's it.
Stephen
David,
Aside from the fact my body just doesn't fit in a Ford-designed cockpit, I can't use a 'stripped' basic ½-ton 2WD truck but 6 outta twelve months. I have to have the 4WD because of the hills and snow here, and I need the King Cab because the truck is also my only 'family car' and I frequently have 4 or 5 people in it.
The price on a new 4x4 GMC K-1500 King Cab / Long-bed is well over $35,000; I think it's close to $38,600 right now. By the time I add the 15% sales taxes, we're up over $40 grand. Even at 0% financing over 5 years the payments would be close enough to $700 per month as not to make any real difference in my budget. (And that's only for a 1500, not a 2500. Don't even ask about a duelly. They're up over $60G.)
Not doable; not even thinkable. Not by me anyway.
The fact that vehicle sold in less than two days shows the price he asked for it was pretty good. Book value on a 2002 of that model is $13,500; he asked 9,600 and would have sold it to me for 8,800 to make up for some of the dough I'd just paid into his service department for the other one.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
You are way off base about the selling price of new vehicles. My buddy just last month bought the latest model brand new 2500HD Chevrolet with diesel, auto, power windows and doors, 4Wheel Drive and a few other options for 36,000--there was no trade--the price paid was ten thousand dollars off of what the sticker said. This is the one with four full size doors. Some people that pay the most for cars and trucks are "friends of the dealer". They roll over and get STUCK. These are the happiest customers--go figure.He did not make any friends at the dealership either---but when it needs any warranty work, the service department will work on it just like one that the dealership made ten thousand dollars on.IF you are looking for a half ton 4x4 gas burner, you should be in the 26,000 range. Getting one heavy duty ordered does not add much cost--so do not go in assuming that it does or it will!
.
.
.Nobody is as good as they seem, nobody is as bad as they seem either.
Dinosaur might be quoting Canadian Dollar prices. Not the big gap they used to have...but still gonna sound higher to us Yanks
It's not only the currency conversion that affects the prices of trucks up here (although that's part of it). The base prices are higher for a lot of reasons, one of which is they are not quite the same trucks.
Handymanvan doesn't seem to have done much research besides talking with his buddy before telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. But if he's got a brand new 4x4 king cab long-bed GMC 2500 with the Canadian-build package that he's willing to sell me for $26,000, I'll pay it in either currency. I could flip it for 180% profit in about two hours...and use the dough to buy a nice used truck I can afford to own.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
That was Half Ton for 26000 USD, 2500 HD With Diesel 36,000--USD--I am not in the Truck Business now but all I do know about is US Market Trucks--I would be suprised if other countries got a different gauge sheet metal. Nobody is as good as they seem, nobody is as bad as they seem either.
Truck 1
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Truck A
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Truck FSamT
Thanks for going to all that trouble, Sam, but while it's theoretically possible for me to buy a vehicle in the U.S. and then import it, it's a major PITA and costs more than the export specialists want you to think until after you've signed.
I'm not 'there' in spirit this week anyway; got the Fest coming up in about 15 days (EEEEK!) and no time to fool around with anything else till that's done.
You coming? Haven't heard a peep out of you on the subject.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Save this reply and do not open for 16 days.
Differences
between CA and USA trucks. (Big link.)
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pub/cp/bsf5048/bsf5048-07e.pdf.
http://www.riv.ca/english/html/how_to_import.html
http://www.importcartocanada.info/SamT
Does that mean I'll be able to answer you in person?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
No, I'm staying home.SamT
That's too bad, bro. It'd be great to finally meet you.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
go to auction, i got a 2002 f150 xlt with 130000 for 10k, took it for inspection and the mechanic offered me 12 ha!
Hey Dinosaur, if you're looking for a great website to check insurance companies I have had pretty good luck after my last Insurer decided that my policy should triple.The website is Kanetix.ca
Ontario brokers cannot practice in Quebec and vise versa!
I had that problem when I had to work in Toronto for a year and 10 months. Live in Mississaga and Guelph."No doubt exists that all women are crazy; it's only a question of degree." - W.C. Fields
The problem is each time you find a 'good' insurance company, the broker 'sells the volume' (wholesales his policies to a higher bidder...better for him, but not the client) and stops dealing with that company. He then switches you without your permission or knowledge until the last possible split second.
I've fired six brokers in 15 years for that crap, and am about to fire another. But it has to be a Quebec broker, as Jet said.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
US gov auctions:http://www.govsales.govSamT
Being he does repairs..ask how much he'd charge you for an extended warrantee
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM