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Hello,
I’m in the middle of a project that is mostly the painting of 38 townhouse units…each unit has a main entry door, around which is decorative trim that consists of fluted 1x on either side that “sits” on a base of 1x with a decorative shingle molding build-up. The top over the door is kind of a peak for lack of a better description. Most all the units have rotted wood to some extent, mostly minor, and mostly its the shingle molding that’s shot on all of them, along with a fair number of the “bases” that are a 10 inch piece of 1″x6″ that need re-placed. Each “base” has a small block of wood on top of it that seperates it from the fluting, and its that block that three pieces of the shingle molding are attached to…one front piece and two short sides with 45 degree mitres.
So it seems like the most time consuming part will be attaching all these pieces, as I figure pre-drilling the molding will be needed. So I think I’d like to get a nail gun, or perhaps a stapler. I own a utility coil nailer and the main reason I bought it was the unmatched versatility in nail lengths and guage and type…it’d take 3 stick nailers to cover the range. I also have a Brad nailer, but it seems kinda useless. But I like the coil nailer and am wondering if there is a similar thing for finish type guns…that is, one with a wide versatility. I borrowed a PC finish nailer once, but was unimpressed with the holding power of the nails…I could pull apart the pieces with my fingers and the nails were very thin and pliable, even though I believe they were 2.5 inchers.
The main reason versatility is a priority to me is because I’m a painting contractor who gets into a fair bit of carpentry…but I’m not a carpenter. So I don’t want to invest in a bunch of specialized guns if I can avoid it. For example, I once saw a gun that shot both staples and nails, but only very small ones…is there a bigger version of this? And really, what’s the advantage of staples…would I be happier with a nice staple gun? I assume all guns shoot interior and exterior fasteners… Will a staple gun secure 1x material well? I’ll need to secure the “base” 1x to the framing material behind it. Is there such thing as ring shank finish nails or staples?
The stores around here stock lots of Stanley and PCable fastners and guns with a fair bit of Senco thrown in. I see limited Accuset here and there…oh, and of course Paslode. Other than that, I can’t think of any more off hand. Any advice and guidance on this purchase would be appreciated.
Also, when assembling, what are your thoughts about using adhesives/glues? Being a painter, I’ve always caulked the hell outta things I replace…that and back-priming I figure guarantees it won’t fail again. How often do trim carpenters use glue of liquid nails in mitres and just to affix smaller pieces?
Thanks in advance…
Q
Replies
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Not sure what you mean by the coil nailer having so much versatility. Some stick nailers can fire many different types of nails, but coil nailers are comparatively limited.
Next, so you used a PC (Piece of Crap) finish nailer that didn't hold well--probably their junk 16 gauge gun. Get a Senco SFN 40. 15 ga. You could use it with galvanized to attach the pieces and then hand nail them with your choice of nail.
Good carpenters don't need to gunk up their work with a lot of caulk. they make a good fit, and if necessary, will use SOME caulk here and there. On exterior I use caulk for protection, not to hide mistakes.
Interior, on paint grade, sure we run caulk but mostly to create a nicer finish; again if the joinery is not good, well, it's probably not good enough to caulk either, but more freeplay in that department depending on the situation.
I've never used liquid nails. Does it work?
*Liquid nails or PL premium is great for lots of trim details where you don't want a lot of nail holes marring the surface finish or a chance of splitting a short finish molding. In cases like that, or say overhead frieze mold at the soffit, the nail is just there to hold the piece in place while the glue sets. Sometimes a detailed molding doesn't offer a flat surface for a nail head to disappear on and a light finish nail isn't enough for exterior trim. My first thought is that Qual C should cultyiovate a good relationship with a carpenter to sub this stuff to. He can save bucks on capital expenditure and have more time for painting where he'll make money. But that takes have the fun out of doing this stuff - he gets to spend that money on TOOLS.So my next thought is to Palode cordless guns. For the occasional spot it's nice to grab'n'go instead of hooking up all the compressor and cord.
*Mad Dog,Thanks for the tip on the Senco...based on price alone, I assumed they were top of the line. Considering that this will not be a tool that gets heavy usage, are there any less expensive brands that you feel perform well and will have a long life when used heavily perhaps only a total of 4 weeks per year?I am surprised about your comment regarding the coil nailer. When I was shopping for a nailer I was struck by how limited the stick nailers seemed to be in comparison...I almost settled on a Senco...maybe SCN60 (just a guess, been too long). But it was pricey so I didn't jump...the project I needed it for was still months off. Close to the time I was ready to bite the bullet when I came accross a Stanley N80CB on sale...much, much less than the Senco and almost identical nail sizes. My Stanley will shoot nails anywhere between 1 1/2" and 3 1/4" and they make nails at every 1/4" increment between those. As for diameter of nail, my decimal place may be off, but from memory, it ranges from .99 to .021 which covers a huge range in comparison to the stick nailers I was looking at...I'm not sure how guage fits into the equation though? But even the range of nail length seemed huge compared to all the stick nailers...If I recall, most framing guns only shot between 2 1/2" and 3 1/2" and the diameters were very limited. As far as types, I guess they're all the same? I have stainless steel, ring shanks, galv., and then there's others I don't have...I think there's a "glued" nail too.As for caulking, I don't use it to hide poor cuts, I use it for weather-proofing. While I understand your feelings about "needing" caulking, take it from someone who's business it is putting houses back together again after as little as 5 years up to 150 years, with the majority of homes showing areas of minor rot inside 6 years, moderate rot inside 12, and moderate to severe inside 15 to 20 years. It just doesn't matter how nice the carpenter cut, fit, and nailed, if it has a joint exposed to the elements, it'll rot sooner or later. However, if its backprimed and caulking is applied during assembly, so as a high quality sealant is sandwiched into miter joints and build-ups are caulked before they are stacked on, things will last far longer. The reason is that the joints eventually expand and contract, causing both paint and surface caulking to fail, allowing moisture in to accelerate the process. But on "perfect" miters and joints, there is no place for the painters to apply caulking...and just smearing it on doesn't last, nor should it. So really, its those examples of great carpentry that are the first to rot many times...the joints where a nice triangle bead of caulk 1/4 deep or bigger that will survive the longest.Thanks again for your input...hope I was able to offer something of interest...Q
*Piffin,Paslode is cool, isn't it? ;)Unfortunately there's just no way to have that type of relationship with a good carpenter...they've got a million things going on and are far to bust to drop everything in the middle of summer to come running everytime I find rotted wood...which is literally about every house to some degree. It'd hold up the job even if I could find someone. No, I learned a long time ago that I was on my own with wood replacement...and I also learned quickly what most painters do...slap some caulk on it and paint.So for the past 8 years I've been amassing tools...pretty much to the point now where I've got everything both a framer and a trim carpenter have and tackle bigger projects. I've pulled all the siding off a number of homes in recent years and replaced it...all either 6" cedar lap (1/2" bevel) or T1-11. But that's the extreem...mostly its sections of siding heresoffit/fascia there, dormer on this one all the brickmolding on that one, peak boards, you name it really. And aside from the fact I like doing it cause its a nice change of pace and the problem solving is fun, I also make nice extra money on it. I compensate for my slowness by charging T&M for most replacement...since the majority of it doesn't show up until the job's underway anyhow. I'm up to charging $60 an hour, but when I give prices for stuff I figure more than that (hopefully!).But the tools are fun to but too...my favorite tool has to be my Hitachi 8 1/4" sliding compound miter saw that's mounted on a Delta SideKick portable stand. That things been with me for about 4 years now and I just love it...from making me look like I'm good at crown molding to chopping cedar siding, it always does the job and the Kickstand gets it everywhere with ease.The only downside to carpentry I find, is how much time one can lose just by mentioning the words Home Depot or other store! Hours vanish in the blink of an eye...thank god for employees or nothing would get done somedays! LOLThanks,Q
*QualiC,I use PC nailers and Ive never had a problem with the "holding power" of any nail Ive shot out of my nailers. I think maybe you used the wrong gage nailer, maybe 18ga or 16ga when you should of used a 15 ga.
*Q,Nice responses. I guess my definition of versatility with regard to nail guns is some stick nailers can fire framing nails, (including hot dipped galvanized) sheathing nails, whether ring shanked or smooth, and screwnails for decking and subflooring.I've never seen hot dipped coil nails, or screwnails for coils. I think sizewize, it's a wash.But we all have our preferences. I like coils too, but the ones I've used for framing have jammed a lot, and tend to be wimpy shooters at times. My stick nailers are powerful.Piffin's thought of the paslode is worth thinking about. I did it that way for quite a while, carrying some paslode guns and lots of batteries around but now none of them work, so I've been using compressed air and I don't think I'll get another paslode for a while (but I still like them).It sounds like you do enough carpentry to justify owning a fair amount of high quality tools, they should last a long time for you, since you only need them occasionally, and will come in handy to have instead of dreaming about. But I tend to buy more tool than I really need, guess I'm pretty overloaded in that department.MD
*A relationship with a Paslode cordless is like a relationship with a beautiful woman who can dance but keeps breaking her ankle - you spend more time at the table.
*Do yourself a favor and get the Senco.You'll spend less time looking for diffrent type of nails and getting cheaper ones repaired.Around here the Lowes was selling the senco for $40.00 more than a PC or Bostich put I think thru the years that$40 extra will seem less and less.Had a Airy but was ridiculous getting 50cent o-rings without paying 19.99 SH.,have an old Reliant from Trendlines which was my first but know seems primative.Stick with 15gauge tho.Some finish nailers dont like shooting 1/4 round because of the profile of the nose in which case a brad nailer works fine.Like my plaslode framer but hate pushing the battery in every 2 nails to make contact.
*Beautiful woman in a cast. Table dance. Might have to try one of those paslodes. That's all it takes, piffin?
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Hello,
I'm in the middle of a project that is mostly the painting of 38 townhouse units...each unit has a main entry door, around which is decorative trim that consists of fluted 1x on either side that "sits" on a base of 1x with a decorative shingle molding build-up. The top over the door is kind of a peak for lack of a better description. Most all the units have rotted wood to some extent, mostly minor, and mostly its the shingle molding that's shot on all of them, along with a fair number of the "bases" that are a 10 inch piece of 1"x6" that need re-placed. Each "base" has a small block of wood on top of it that seperates it from the fluting, and its that block that three pieces of the shingle molding are attached to...one front piece and two short sides with 45 degree mitres.
So it seems like the most time consuming part will be attaching all these pieces, as I figure pre-drilling the molding will be needed. So I think I'd like to get a nail gun, or perhaps a stapler. I own a utility coil nailer and the main reason I bought it was the unmatched versatility in nail lengths and guage and type...it'd take 3 stick nailers to cover the range. I also have a Brad nailer, but it seems kinda useless. But I like the coil nailer and am wondering if there is a similar thing for finish type guns...that is, one with a wide versatility. I borrowed a PC finish nailer once, but was unimpressed with the holding power of the nails...I could pull apart the pieces with my fingers and the nails were very thin and pliable, even though I believe they were 2.5 inchers.
The main reason versatility is a priority to me is because I'm a painting contractor who gets into a fair bit of carpentry...but I'm not a carpenter. So I don't want to invest in a bunch of specialized guns if I can avoid it. For example, I once saw a gun that shot both staples and nails, but only very small ones...is there a bigger version of this? And really, what's the advantage of staples...would I be happier with a nice staple gun? I assume all guns shoot interior and exterior fasteners... Will a staple gun secure 1x material well? I'll need to secure the "base" 1x to the framing material behind it. Is there such thing as ring shank finish nails or staples?
The stores around here stock lots of Stanley and PCable fastners and guns with a fair bit of Senco thrown in. I see limited Accuset here and there...oh, and of course Paslode. Other than that, I can't think of any more off hand. Any advice and guidance on this purchase would be appreciated.
Also, when assembling, what are your thoughts about using adhesives/glues? Being a painter, I've always caulked the hell outta things I replace...that and back-priming I figure guarantees it won't fail again. How often do trim carpenters use glue of liquid nails in mitres and just to affix smaller pieces?
Thanks in advance...
Q