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It’s a good picture. The installation looks fairly well done but I can’t tell what type of fittings those are. Seems like gas fittings should not be silver colored but I’m far from an expert here.
Geez Charles, aren’t you being a little rough on him? It seems like he IS trying to find out about it right here (not a bad place to look IMO)
MD
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Sounds like another case of the uneducated homeowner thinking he knows more than the professional plumber. How much $ did he save by doing it that way - quick connects - than by doing it the proper way? Maybe he should let nature take its course any clean up the gene pool a little bit. Sorry for the cynicism, but I've seen too much ignorance and arrogance get in the way of qualified professionals trying to make an honest living.
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I have seen quick disconnects once on a outside line to a gas grill. They looked a lot like these, but then again they were outside and also had a gas shutoff valve right before them. This looks like a DIY job to me and I sure wouldn't put something like that inside my house, especially not without a shutoff when they weren't in use. If I was the buyer I would have them removed. Not to mention you have to ask yourself what goes inside a house that needs a quick disconnect.
*This is outside my area. I'm justi asking.The T looks galvanised, isn't that bad for a gas line? The shut off valve on the left looks like a water shut off, are there shut offs that look like that for gas lines?Rich Beckman
*Bob, i have to disagree with Charles, I think you're doing your job right by flagging and not necessarily solving potential problems. A good pro in -my- professional field, law (before anyone jumps on me that tradespeople are professionals too, I don't use it as an adjective but more like "white collar," people who don't get their hands dirty), isn't incompetent because they don't know the answer to everything. What they HAVE to be good at is throwing up red flags when something looks funny, and then either researching the area or referring it to a specialist. If stuff gets by them unnoticed, or if they do not concede they are unqualified to offer a definitive opinion in an unfamiliar area, it's called malpractice.This doesn't mean all, most, or some home inspectors are good or bad or anything. It's just a question of expectations, and your eyes most probably contribute a lot more than a laypersons. Most homeowners would't even notice these fittings or know they were for gas. Most of the ones I know are barely able to replace a furnace filter. If they're smart, they admit they don't know enough and hire a generalist who ... will throw up red flags.That speech over -- I WILL disagree with you on one minor thing -- you're putting too much effort into this. Given that this DIY work by a confirmed incompetent DIY -- consider the use of the air line -- my advice would be to cap these connections off right off the batt. They serve no function, and if the buyer wants them to he/she can have the same plumber called in to cap them do something else with them. It sounds like you've already given this advice, perhaps not strongly enough to register.I'll bet, for example, that the threads aren't properly sealed, or that a shutoff valve is required, etc. On a simple cost/benefit analysis, these fittings must not be left unexamine, in person, by someone with the license and insurance to offer a guarantee.BTW, is that chimney properly lined for efficient gas appliances? My isn't, is deteriorating, and was missed by the home inspector. :) I'm knocking it down anyway.
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Bob,
I agree with Andrew that you've put plenty of effort into this, and all you would have to do is put up the caution flag and recommend if someone buys the house to have a licensed plumber take care of this. I think your concern and effort to remedy this is exemplary and the exception rather than the rule in your profession. Perhaps some of it was to satisfy your own curiosity, as well?
MD
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There are gate valves that are certified as w.o.g. or water oil gas. Ball valves are almost always preferred. Galvanized can be used under most codes although this fitting does have some letters on it that I havent seen. Two things I noticed by looking at the picture again are the inspection sticker which may or may not mean anything and I cant see a relief valve although it could be on the side or hidden from view. My opinions on home inspections are from my own personal experience with them. I'm sure they arent all bad. My complaint in this situation was that I got the impression(possibly mistakenly) that the inspector spent more time posting his situation here rather than making a few phone calls. The conditions revealed in the inspectors subsequent posts show the situation much clearer and show that there were more problems than just some quick connect fittings. I thing the Kaboom post was part of what made me respond anyway. That would definately be in the top ten most hypocritical posts Ive seen.
*My camper has quick connects on the propane for the cook stove. I'm not sure what brand they are but they look like air fittings with a locking arm on the side.
* Charles,
Joseph Fusco View Image
*Andrew and All,Thanks for the kind words and advice. Andrew, FWIW, I toiled before the bar for awhile, doing mainly regulatory and banking. Issue spotting a specialty; but its a lot easier to research legal issues than construction issuesThe client was fairly savy about the various issues in the house, and was clear that the disconnects were going to be taken out.I just noticed another thing from the pic (I didn't pick this up at the time:) It looks like the joints are sealed with teflon pipe tape; a no-no for gas lines.As I recall, the P/T valve was on the side; my notes indicate that the extension pipe was short, so I know there was one somewhere.FWIW, gate valves are common on gas lines in older construction in my part of the world (NW Ohio.)FWIW also, while I have a fairly high opinion of myself as an inspector, I don't think I'm that unusual; I know a number of good inspectors. There are, of course, some pretty poor excuses, as well. Kind of like contractors.I've got another water heater pic I think I'll post as "What's Wrong With This Picture"Bob
*Gee, Bob, i knew there was something especially likeable about you. :) Glad to hear you survived.
* Bob,
Joseph Fusco View Image
*Thanks for addressing my questions.Rich Beckman
*Harsh! Many folks can't see a termite trap, sag roofed money pit thrown up by a crew of binging crack heads at first glance. New carpet, fresh paint, and three bedrooms are what the average Joe sees. A good inspector might even mention the pig slaughterhouse down the block, if the homebuyer is paying his fee. Hey, what's that smell?
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Maybe it will help to think of a home inspector as a "general practitioner" (physician) who recognizes the limitations of her own knowledge and refers clients to cardiologists, pediatricans, etc. Nobody can possibly be a master of all the building trades.
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Actually Joe, you're post at 7:43 must've been while I'd already been online checking the thread, 'cause I really did notice by myself at 7:58. Honest engine. Didn't know about the yellow tape, though. Nice tidbit.
What's the "Kaboom" talk? Did I miss a msg in thre thread? I can't figure the threading here; I can't seem to get earlier read messages in the thread back. Time to explore.
Bob
*Bob,Hasn't anyone applied the "lit match test" to these fittings yet? You guys are so stone age...Pete DraganicP.S. Dad has taught me well!
*This, from the guy who stops bullets with his own body! Take his advice with a grain of salt. :)"Kaboom" was my post, and it was a JOKE. OK, it wasn't clearly marked as such, so the confusion of some must be due to my omission.
*Pete:<> I usually use a "Piezo-Electric Combustible Gas Analyzier?" Whadda ya mean, "stone-age?" I carry the most advanced of diagnostic equipment.Bob
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Yesterday I inspected a house where the owner had attached some quick disconnects, as on air air compressor line, on the natural gas line.
I told my client (the buyer) that I didn't know for sure, that he would have to check with a plumber or the gas company, but that I strongly suspected this was very dangerous,
I'll upload a photo if anyone cares to see it.
Anyone care to comment?
Bob Walker
*Bob,I know how badly air hose couplers leak. I have to say I almost don't believe it. Is it possible it is some other type of connector? I'd love to see the picture even if it's just to print out and show everybody I know.
*Pssssssssssssssssssss .... KA-BOOM!Why was this done, for a BBQ or something portable? Sounds scary. Actually, where gas is concerned, your words "where the owner had attached...." are frightening enough!
*Bob, you're to be commended for checking into this matter...My gas man installed quick disconnect fittings for my natural gas line to my personal Dukane grill. The fittings may have come with the Dukane unit (I can't recall), and they are designed specifically for low-pressure gas supplies. This installation was done under a permit and was inspected by the local Code Compliance Office. Anyhow, these fittings are NOTHING AT ALL LIKE AIR HOSE COUPLINGS except in the way you operate the disconnect. These fittings could not be mated to standard air hose couplings. I just went outside and compared the design to be certain.Hopefully your client's property has the approved natural gas disconnects. If they're regular air line fittings, then I'll join the chorus in screaming UNSAFE, even though I have not researched the code applications. If someone says air lines don't leak, then I suggest they try leaving a nail gun connected to a hose connected to the compressor tank overnight, and see if there isn't a significant pressure drop by morning.Hope this helps, Steve
*As long as the correct fittings wer used there should be no problem. Seems like this is something a home inspector should know about or be able to check out himself rather than telling the homeowner to call a plumber.
*Just a thought, are these left from the pressure test when the line was installed
*I've attached the photo: I'm not sure how the forum handles them, but my filename is Pb100039.jpgI don't know if there'll be enough detail to distinguish the type of connector.There was also an unvented gas heater in the basement with a quick disconnect coupling: I assume the owner was using it from time to time hooking it up from time to time.FWIW, the gas line leading to the clothes dryer was an air line: yellow and clearly marked "Air." I _know_ that wasn't right, and it raises my suspicions as to the couplings.<>As an HI, I'm a generalist. If I knew as much as a licensed plumber, electrician, HVAC, strucural engineer, soils engineer, appliance tech, etc, etc, I'd be driving a mercedes pickup with 2 or 3 boys to carry my ladders and my clients would be writing a heck of a bigger check.Bob
*By saying that I believe this is something a home inspector should know about or be able to find out himself I mean that I believe that when an inspector sees things he has no clue about then maybe a call to the plumbing inspector would be in order to at least see if these fittings can be used for gas or indoors. Just seems to me that you jumped to the conclusion that these are air fittings because that the only kind that you know about. Just another reason for me to believe that a home inspection isnt worth the paper it is written on.
*It's a good picture. The installation looks fairly well done but I can't tell what type of fittings those are. Seems like gas fittings should not be silver colored but I'm far from an expert here.Geez Charles, aren't you being a little rough on him? It seems like he IS trying to find out about it right here (not a bad place to look IMO)MD
*Charles,FWIW, in addition to asking here, I've spoken with 3 other home inspectors (with an aggregate of about 45 years in the trades and over 12,000 home inspections under their belts) 2 plumbers, 2 plumbing supply countermen (at industrial/trade suppliers) and an HVAC expert. The local plumbing inspector has not returned my call.None of them had heard of disconnects such as I described, although one of the countermen showed me a package for a gas quick disconnect for industrial use - it was nothing like in the photo I posted.I think you have a skewed set of expectations of what a home inspector can do. FWIW, you are not alone.Just how much time do you think I should spend trying to track down an answer for a question which it is _highly_ unlikely I'll ever be confronted with again?Bob
*You should spend as much time as it takes to get the job done right. If thats too much time for what you are making maybe you should charge more. You might do a better job than the inspectors that I have been involved with, I don't know. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I see about 15-20 inspection reports a year and to be honest they should be worth about an hours work, but they cost 200 dollars or more and are full of little problems like doors that wont close or toilets that rock, etc., with very little about the structure or mechanics of the house. I wouldnt be too sure you wont see these fittings again, ive seen them on almost every new house ive worked on over the last 6-8 years. Never seen them inside or used as you describe though. Your code may be different, these fittings may not be right anyway, I dont know. Its nothing personal, I just find home inspections rather useless.
*Charles:I have to disagree with you. I don't think home inspections are useless. I don't do inspections but I see value in having them done.I would take a used car to my mechanic before buying it because I don't know anything about cars. Many, maybe most people don't know enough about construction, deterioration, repairs to make an intelligent decision about buying a house.The problem is how inspections are done. I think that many (maybe most again) inspectors make as many observations as possible whether they are important items or not. home owners are left with a lengthly report of useless information that is not a clear indication of the quality of a house.Many inspectors don't have the knowledge to offer a complete inspection and leave home owners with disclamers like "hire an electrician to inspect...," instead of taking the responsibility involved with standing up and offering an opinion. On an inspection with a friend of mine, I asked the inspector if the foundation cracks were a "walk away" factor. I don't believe they were. He said that an engineer should be called out to investigate further. I wish he had just said "I don't have a &*%^$ clue."