*
Patrick,
Here we go. I work for urban planners, and my boss specializes in small town, environmental and land use policy. Here are some books to get you started, if you want more info, email me and I’ll try and scare up some closer to home people/stuff. I realize that this is US oriented (sorry), but the basics should be the similar. All these books emphasize that you can have economic development without despoilation, that you don’t have to sacrifice an economy for environmentalism. You need to convince your locals that QUALITATIVE growth is more profitable than QUANTITATIVE growth. Is is, and it is proven.
Holding Our Ground, Protecting Americ’a Farms and Farmland, by Tom Daniels and Deborah Bowers,Island Press, Washington DC, 1997
Ethical Land Use, Principles of Policy and Planning, timothy Beatly, The John Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, 1994
Everyone Wins! A Citizens Guide to Development, Richard D. Klein, American Planning Association, Planners Press, Chicago, Washington DC, 1990
Resource Guide for Creating Successful Communities,The Conservation Foundation, Michael A Mantell, Stephen F Harper, Luther Propst, Island Press, Washington DC 1990
Good Luck, this is the good fight!
Lisa
Replies
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The governor in this state (Me.) has tried to find common ground with his Eco-Eco (ecology, economy) approach by getting opposing sides of an issue to sit down at the table and work something out. Neither side gets all of what they want, but something useful results for all parties involved. Sometimes when extremism rears it ugly head, everyone loses.
*
Does spotted owl taste anything like bald eagle?
*Tsk Tsk.Being nice doesn't mean being a wimp, nor does it have to mean being manipulative. It's just a way of showing respect for the person you disagree with -- few people come around with the you're-a-schmuck, think-like-me approach. (Wow, you know, you're right, I am a schmuck.) And, for me anyway, respect is an independent value.
*Try to avoid "YOU" statements altogether if you're going to try to do some group building.JonC
*Good sources Lisa. To bring the issue a little closer to the masthead (FHB, remember), the National Asscociation of Home Builders has developed a voluntary program that encourages the preservation of trees and other natural resources on home sites. They have partnered with the National Arbor Day Foundation. They have a lot of reference material available.The data show that houses sell for higher prices in shorter times and that certain site development costs can actually be reduced with good preservation planning and practices. While it's most true at higher price points they've shown it works with entry level stuff too. And higher prices mean more property tax base. And these neighborhoods appreciate better and remain more stable in quality.Call NAHB and ask for Debbie Bassert.
*As a Canadian, remind your fellow citizens of Sudbury, or as travelers thru have called it, the moon.
*Tourism is great. Trees are great. Cities are great. Aint life grand!!!! I think so, near the stream,J
*Somebodies got to(o) much time on their hands....Who?
*Is this a trick question?
*Nope. . .just jack with nothing on his mind. . . :}
*
Admittedly, this topic is a little
i off the wall
but we do that pretty well around here!
How would you educate an unsophisticated group of rural politicians on the benefits of enshrining some environmental standards into a new "Township Plan". This rural area's only industry is tourism but they continue to treat their local environment as a commodity to be plundered. A complete shift in a generations deep mindset is necessary. . . and their knees are already jerking!!! To say that a soft approach is necessary is an understatement, but to what end??
*As part of a province wide Government decree my local rural township was forced to amalgamate with three similar neighbouring townships to form a larger single township. The end result is that all previous "structures" have to be rewritten. A new "Township Plan" is in the planning stages which will address mostly zoning and such, but a small group of us want to enshrine some enviornmental standards and we have got to get a submission together very quickly. And then convince them to take it seriouslyThis area is i rural outbacklots of good ol boys, yahoos, never was-ers etc, mixed in with more cosmopolitan/sophisticated retirees from the big cities, and younger imports like myself. For more background read http://www.ottawacitizen.com/national/990412/2471300.html. Most of the environmental considerations concern "basic ecology" (don't foul your own nest),aesthetics and preservation of significant existing landscape features for tourism considerations. . . we won't likely ever have to worry about heavy industry moving in. They seem to prefer paving prime farm land which is non existent around here!!
*Patrick - "...enshrining some environmental standards..." what do you have in mind? - yb
*Patrick, Perhaps we should start out with exactly why so many cosmopolitan/ sophisticated retirees and young inports have "descended" upon this township. Maybe it was because of the beautiful scenery, or the friendliness of the locals, low taxes, or the small town feel. What ever it was it also includes the good old boys and yahoos and other associated unsavories. These unsophisticates obviously have either created a town or managed to preserve a town that you want to live in. The best thing that you young imports and sophisticates can do for this little town is to go back to the city where you belong. More rural land has been ruined by city people than the country people could ever imagine doing.
*I'll count myself as a yahoo and you as a newbie nimby. What the hell are you up to? Are you moving into an area that was perfectly happy and instilling your values on them? You don't sound like you are worried about architechure, as much as limiting others in seeing there economic potential. Most of your enviromental "STANARDS" are more socialist than anything benefical. Humans are here to stay and I think few would disagree that we could tred more lightly on the earth, we are as much a part of the earth as any endangered species that you can name. I want to walk in the woods with grand children, I want to show them stars in a human light free sky. I don't want to live in your world that would control all that is progress and celebrate all that is not, because the village that it takes to raise that child is hacking itself to death. If I missed the point I'm sorry, but I doubt I'm too far off. You sound like a "CAVE", Citizens against virtually everything".
*Well. . . I see the knee jerks are out in force here tonightCosmo, J.D.A little background. I don't live in "town", and thei townshipI'm referring to encompasses several hundred square miles. I've been here seasonally and now permanently for over 20 years, a newbie I'm not. The values that you derisively think I'm trying to "instill" are pretty basic -i Don't foul your own nest, don't ruin a good thing, don't shoot yourself in the foot. I don't intend that to sound patronizing but it's pretty depressing when you come to realize that such concepts are tantamount to i rocket sciencefor some poeopleWhat your knee jerking won't let you understand is that in a backroad area like this, there is no future for young people. The marginal farms all became part time ventures several generations ago, there never was any industry. As the world became a bigger place, this became a smaller place. Those that had any get up and go, got up and went. Those that remain scrape by or are on welfare. Lifetime summer cottagers tend to retire here as it is a beautiful place if you have independant financial means. "Newcomers" like my wife and I derive most of our business from these other newcomers who pay the bulk of the local property taxes.Theb only"economical potential" as mentioned above is tourism. Clean Air, Clean Lakes, Pretty Landscape. F*ck it up and they're gone. Period. You want fishing? Protect the spawning beds. You want clean water to swim and boat in? Protect the water from pollution. You want pleasing forest vistas? Don't ravage the landscape for dumb reasons. This ain't communism, or McCarthyism or any other ism. . .it's just common bloody sense!!! ( Your answer Y.B.?)J.D. after writing this>"I want to walk in the woods with grand children, I want to show them stars in a human light free sky."You then follow it with this: > "I don't want to live in your world that would control all that is progress and celebrate all that is not, because the village that it>takes to raise that child is hacking itself to death." Make up your friggin mind. . . pick a side of the fence and stay on it. Whadda load of drivel!!-pm
*That's funny...I've always considered myself to be at least somewhat of an envionmentalist. And one of the big reasons I am is in hopes that I will be able to walk in the woods with grand children and show them stars in a human light free sky.Rich Beckman
*I have plenty of nice warm fuzzy feelings about preserving forests I will never visit and species i will never have a use for. But I think the most compelling political arguments are based in economics -- you've already honed in on this. If they let development proceed at the whim of the developers, only the developers will leave happy (and they will leave).Recycling never really caught on in the U.S. until landfill prices went through the roof and communities were required to reduce output. I doubt NYC would have done much at all if they we're trapped. Same with auto efficiency -- everyone was interested when gas prices went up, now they couldn't care less with gas at $1. Bottle deposit bills only found success when touted as anti-litter tactics (and this actually works -- litterbugs turn out to be cheap b*stards).So sell your case like you've framed it. Collect some examples of tourist areas that destroyed themselves, say this could happen here. Look for success stories, and inevitably you'll find that planning was an important element. (What's Banff like anyway?) Like you can't run an engine too lean or too rich, zoning and such have to regulated carefully. Line up as many people as you can on your side, and lobby some influential people to support you BEFORE the issue comes to a vote (being courteously approached on a personal level is very effective).And you're not being a child-hacker. You're respecting the democratic process and attempting to persuade people of what you genuinely think is in the region's interest. you might be wrong, you might not win, but it's not the same as lauching a coup!Heck, have 'em all read The Lorax. Who needs a sneed?
*Man, you guys, LIGHTEN UP! unless you guys all have some history with each other, that was unbelievable. Take it out on nails at work or something.Patrick - maybe you could use the example of the scraggley looking, very rare Yew tree (here they grow alone amidst the old growth firs- have to bow my head to say that) to point out to those folks the unknown benefits Mother Nature is holding for us all if only we knew where to look. I am sure there are better examples, but even I know about the cancer fighting extracts in Yew. - yb
*Patrick,I've always had trouble with the concept of tourism as an industry. I dont want my grandkids doing quaint peasant dances for tourists who throw quarters.People in faraway metropolitan areas who would like to bring the family on a vacation to where I live once in their lifetime, like a trip to Disneyland, and make policy for our area are a pain in the ass.Sorry if I sound bitter.JonC
*My mind is made up, I think that at least North America is a vast place and can have places where I can take and show my kids all the stars in the sky and walk in pristine woods. I live in an area where I spent 90 minutes going 20-25 miles. This is something I accept as it is how I make a living. I'm sorry for the young in your area that can't find decent employment. It would be best if they could, but that isn't reality in rural areas such as I assume you describe. Hasn't been for most of this century. I lose it when I hear this happy "enviromentalism." To paraphrase your statement, "I don't want to S*it where I eat" I also don't want to lose my mind over every "enviromental" statement that comes down the pike. Maybe I'm cynical, but I look for the agenda behind every cause. Beaslenut, RAH! RAH!, Boil that dust spec!
*Gee Patrick,What have you started here?Looks like your going to get a reaction at least.
*Patrick, everything you describe is exactly what's going on here (except we have an added complication of having one of the most beautiful islands in the world AND the most polluted industrial site in North america). Like it or not, tourism is a growing industry, and it provides a lot of jobs here, and our area desperately needs them. The idea of the native rural resident as noble savage, who instinctively does everything rightwith regard to Mother Earth, is BS. It's hit and miss, same as in any segment of the population. The favorite tactic here is, if you have a beautiful piece of woodland, chainsaw it for pulp, put it up for sale (forty years of rusting Chev's included), then jump on the tourism bandwagon. good luck; I hope you can find a balance.
*I think he's from Fine Woodworking trying to stir up the Knuckle Draggers. O.K. I'm stirred. Watch out for those unsophisticated country politians, they're not always so dumb.
*J.D, I'm not saying they are dumb. I was raised in the country, still live in the country by choice. And I know full well that rural politicians have a lot on their plates; in this country, as Patrick says, there is an exodus to the cities from the country, making it really hard to provide services to those that remain. How can you argue with trying to save some of what we enjoy for future generations? (and before anyone calls me a tree hugger, consider what I do for a living)
*Hey Patrick,Have you heard Jim Cuddy's song, "Too Many Hands"? I think his words are just what you are trying to say. Obviously, your feelings are not unique; being proactive is the only way to accomplish anything. The community here just fought off a Home Depot from being built, for now anyway.Change can be good, change can also suck, but most of the time, change is inevitable. Good luck.Beatrix
*Patrick,Here we go. I work for urban planners, and my boss specializes in small town, environmental and land use policy. Here are some books to get you started, if you want more info, email me and I'll try and scare up some closer to home people/stuff. I realize that this is US oriented (sorry), but the basics should be the similar. All these books emphasize that you can have economic development without despoilation, that you don't have to sacrifice an economy for environmentalism. You need to convince your locals that QUALITATIVE growth is more profitable than QUANTITATIVE growth. Is is, and it is proven.Holding Our Ground, Protecting Americ'a Farms and Farmland, by Tom Daniels and Deborah Bowers,Island Press, Washington DC, 1997Ethical Land Use, Principles of Policy and Planning, timothy Beatly, The John Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, 1994Everyone Wins! A Citizens Guide to Development, Richard D. Klein, American Planning Association, Planners Press, Chicago, Washington DC, 1990Resource Guide for Creating Successful Communities,The Conservation Foundation, Michael A Mantell, Stephen F Harper, Luther Propst, Island Press, Washington DC 1990Good Luck, this is the good fight!Lisa
*I think the expression "enshrining some environmental standards" puts too much of a religious spin on what you are trying to do. Maybe we shouldn't expect others to worship at the Mother Earth shrine. Just find common ground and attempt to regulate their behavior a bit to prevent degrading the natural resources. Otherwise we run into the situation of creating another war between zealots versus nonbelievers.
*Thank you all for comments to date. Keep 'em comin'Further clarification; Tourism here doesn't mean i theme parks or country dancing. . .it is in it's most basic form: camping or rental cottages and related activities (boating, fishing, swimming, vegging), family cottages, day trippers visiting the few craft shops, and communing with nature (hiking trails, sightseeing, picnicing). And to a lesser economic value fall hunting and winter snowmobile trippers.The "industry" aspect is also very "basic"- the $$ that are brought in seasonally that tide those involved over to the next year.It really is quite basic. The cottagers and retirees provide work for tradesmen like me and other "service" oriented business'.J.D. there ain't no agenda except the "common sense" I referred to above. The "unsophisticated" local politicians are actually "selectively unsophisticated" and aren't dumb at all, just "don't wanna know" and therein lies the problem!!Re: terminology. I'm painfully well aware of the instant polarization that occurs when the terms "environmental", or "ecology" are tossed into the equation (read first posts here for 'instant kharma'). And also grudgingly agree with the i "You catch more flies with honey. . ."approach, but therein lies a whole other problem: How do you get anything done when you spend all your time being i niceand concilliatory?-pm
*I think "nice, concilliatory, confrontational, abrasive" are only styles, not substance. As you well know, people are fragile and can get caught up in the style of your argument, and overlook the substance. When trying to make your case (this is true in any difference of opinion) you have to be able to show the others involved "what's in it for them". After all, "why should I" is a legitimate question in any negotiation. If you are prepared to show them that, you are ready to deal. - ybps - did you catch my post about Ken Kesey?