Andersen/Marvin windows: craftsmanship
PenobscotMan
| Posted in General Discussion on
We are looking to install 5 double-hung windows. We want a divided light look, but not grills. Both Andersen and Marvin do this with muntins applied to the insulated glass. So far so good. Here’s the problem — We looked at Andersen at HD, and the joinery was terrible, with very visible gaps between the muntin ends and the vertical stiles. Then we looked at Marvin at a local window distributor, and joinery was excellent, almost as good as true divided light.
Is this an apples-and-oranges question? Are we comparing Andersen and Marvin, or HD and a real window distributor?
My supplier in Maine (Viking) sells Andersen, but not Marvin, I believe.
Replies
I have a bunch of Marvin double hung true divided light windows in my new addition here in Maine, so they are certainly available in Maine. They are very nice windows. I compared them to Andersen and the Marvins were, in my non-expert opinion, better put together. They were expensive, but I think worth the money.
Thanks -- that was my concern.
Viking has Marvins too. Lou F in Belfast is the Marvin guy to see.
I have bought Marvins from EBS too. But you have to work to get a rep that knows the product with either outfit.
The Marvins are worlds above Andersen in millwork quality. The Andersens show up as fake as close as ten feet away. They are a good company and good windows, but not in the same class as Marvins.
Are you back to the midcoast?
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Thanks, Piffin. For some reason your reply didn't end up in my inbox - found this on BT. I will check with Viking. The other replies suggest I need to look at price. But the Andersen double hungs I saw at HD were out of the question at any price!
No - we are still in chilly Buffalo, working on the old house. Arriving in Maine early June.
Penebscotman,
How long are you in buffalo? Do you live here or just visiting? i'm 15 miles to the north.
Edited 4/18/2007 11:23 pm ET by HoHoHo
Marvin worth the extra $$, but stay away from the factory priming they offer, and apply your own ext. casing (get long "sill horns")
They don't prime the end grain before assembly- thats a no-no
and they should know betta.
Oh yea benj. moore oil primer if not getting clad
Marvin will do pretty much whatever you want, so long as you're willing to pay for it. One of my beefs with them is that 'standard priming' for pre-cased windows doesn't include the back of the casing (not backprimed).
Jeff
Home despots Anderson windows are not the quality that you could order through your distributer. Anderson makes all levels of quality depending on the price point to sell, and everything at the hd has to sell or they drop it. Use the anderson windows but make sure to spec the quality that you want. when they arrive inspect them and send back if not to spec. You can also call anderson yourself and speak to a factory rep to gain added assurance. Pella, Anderson, Marvin, Peachtree are all top end manufacturers.
"Pella, Anderson, Marvin, Peachtree are all top end manufacturers."
I'm ROTFLMAO at that statement!Pella makes some terible product! And Peachtree used to be in the running , but they have fallen off too. i would never put all four of these inthe same class. Pella and Peachtree couldn't lick Marvin's bootsI don't know where you got your info about Andsersen, but their reps and the fatory people will be very specific that they make the same quality for everybody. If you buy a CS235 white with applied muntins, it will be the same window no matter where you buy it. The price and the service will vary wildly, though.The way they meet the HD price breaks is to restrict HD to which windows they can market and to require HD to market a minimum number of unoits each month. In other words, there are a lot of Andersen windows that you cannot buy at HD for any price.
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sorry, I dont know what the roflmao stands for.
Properly ordered and inspected all of the companies make top quality products.
remember its not robotics like the auto industry, its still people made. Marvin may be number 1 today but next year they may slide. funny thing is I like Simonton Windows as a manufacturer but they dont produce the same quality now that they did when it was privately owned. Anderson has been bought and sold many times. All these companies including Marvin have stockholders and a bottom line. Dont forget also that many many windows are destroyed during shipping.
20 years ago the debate was over Pella and Anderson
"Anderson has been bought and sold many times"You must be talking about a different company then.
I am referring to Andersen with an E and it is still a privately held family corporation.http://www.andersenwindows.com/servlet/Satellite/AW/Page/awGeneral-3/1102951371087Your info about Andersen is very flawed if you are thinking of the same company. And if you are comparing all four of these equally, you have not looked closely at any of them. The differences are vast and jump right out even to people with little experience when they see comparable units side by side.
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Hey all, I've actually been replacing the windows in my house a few at a time. I've been using anderson's because they were good quality at a price I could afford when I started doing this. I receive 40 % off if I order vanload from my lumberyard. 4-6 week wait but a big savings. The last batch I replaced were not the same quality as the first ones I put in (joinery wise) I have no grilles so No comment there but the sealant is applied so poorly and then the window seems slamed together. I've also seen the same decline in pellas ( I trim houses for a builder who uses them) the gaskets come loose, the bells and whistles with the shades, triple glaze, etc seem fragile. I like marvins a lot with what little experience I have had with them. they seem solid and also seem engineered well. the only thing I will say is that the basic pella window with no extras seem pretty good. I really like the replacements. most other wood replacements seem to only come in parts with the sashes / slides all seperate. the pellas are accurate and go in easily. There are some other window manufacturers out there who are of good quality. a rep I know was showing me some catalogs for some canadian window manufacturers. looked impressive. check out the website for his company:
empirebuildingproductsinc.com"it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latini
ROTFLMAO is a common acronym for "Rolling on the floor laughing my #### off"
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We did a detailed comparison of Andersens vs. Marvins yesterday. There is no comparison. Cost will be a huge factor here of course, but Andersens look cheap and fake compared to a Marvin. You need to get inches away from the Marvin to tell that the divided lites aren't real muntins. The aluminum clad details are impeccable. The brickmould has so much more substance to it than the thin vinyl clad Andersen. Then again, a 48x48 two unit casement with divdied lights is half the cost of the Marvin. If you want some other wood species on the interior you can triple the cost of Andersen. This is a tough decision for sure! Our current home is all Andersen Casements. We did look at the Andersen (woodwright??) series double hung windows and those were very nice.
I have 2 woodwrights on order that should arrive this week. They are scheduled for installation at the end of next week. One is a single double hung and the other is a double with a field applied support mullion.
With anything there is a balance between cost and quality. I chose the Andersen windows because they offered the best balance of all criteria...Cost, quality, parts
Thanks, tuolumne! And why are you "tuolumne" if you live in NE? . Tuolomne Mdws is one of my favorite places to hike and camp. Spent a week there summer before last and dragged my aged carcass up Mt. Dana.
I've spent some time tramping about in the Yosemite backcountry. I guess I just liked the name and took it with me.
thats funny
"remember its not robotics like the auto industry, its still people made. Marvin may be number 1 today but next year they may slide."
Well ... OK. But I've been to the Marvin factory in Warroad MN twice, including time discussing product line and quality with both Frank and Sue Marvin.
You are so far wrong it isn't even funny. It's the 'people made' part that makes them great. Take a factory tour and you'll see.
Jeff
Edited 4/18/2007 10:21 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke
I just made my second trip up there last January Jeff. Pretty cool place. You get to go on one of their overnight trips too?
The stuff that their custom shop cranks out is awesome.
I was always pretty much an Andersen guy, probably mostly cuz my dad was. Never realized how much difference there is until I saw first-hand how they're put together.
I'm sure that getting to ride in the company jet and being wined & dined for a couple days had nothing to do with changing my opinion ;>)
Anyways, Marvin is a great product made by some real craftsmen and women.
Mike
Yes - we were there overnight, but flew in the King Air not the jet ;o)
You were there in JANUARY??? Now that takes courage!
You haven't lived 'til you've eaten Walleye Pike with scrambled eggs for breakfast.
Jeff
Edited 4/18/2007 11:29 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke
Oh, should have said company PLANE. Can't remember the model, but it was a turbo prop.
Yea, it was a bit cold, but still beats working. Hard to turn down a little trip like that.
I think the first time I was there was like Oct 2000, IIRC.
Was a little disappointed they don't cut much glass there anymore, that was pretty cool. Both the machines that did it, and the guys doing the custom stuff by hand. That little machine that bends the straight aluminum extrusions into curves is neat too.
Interesting little town, especially if you're into hockey. Few of us came home with Christian Brothers sticks.
Where'd you fly out of?
Mike
That's the King Air - see photo.
We flew in once from Minneapolis-St. Paul and once from Chicago.
All of the glass is made at Cardinal Glass.
Jeff
AMEN brother..... incredible tour, facilities, people, and machines...
"We do not inventory windows.... we inventory parts!"
THE ONLY REASON I AM YELLING IS THE SPELLING!!! A N D E R S E N!!! For the record, the have never been bought or sold. They are privately owned by the same family that started the company in the early 1900's. They have, however, been on a buying spree over the last few years. They have purchased several millwork related companies to enhance their offering and gain market share.
Ar yo tring to pell Anderson?
Ar yo tring to pel anderson???????? First of all, I only speak english. Second, Anderson is really A N D E R S E N. No kidding. I am sorry, but, the spelling of a name is one of my pet peeves. It amazes me how many people in the business use the product, read the catalogs, and claim to to know all about them when they can not even spell the name correctly. I would be happy to answer if, I understood
the question.
What amazes me is how people who can only dream of actually having something to of substance to say, so often are only capable of being critical of spelling. Go figure.
Actually are Anderson Windows.Check out this company.http://anderson.1stwindows.com/anderson/anderson.htmIf they say so it must be true :)But there used to be an Anderson Window. They where around about 25 years ago..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
That is funny. ;-)
That is either the name of the dist or they can't spell it right. I can't tell you how many of them are out there. The old V.E. Anderson company still exists. They were forced to change there name as a result of litigation by AndersEn several years ago. They now go by "SUN" windows.
Marvin Windows and Doors is a privately held family owned company. The Marvin family owns it.
< Use the anderson windows but make sure to spec the quality that you want. when they arrive inspect them and send back if not to spec.>How do you spec the Andersen quality you want? I've never been offered that option. Plus, I already have to wait 5-6 weeks for a houseful of Andersens. When you have to dry a building in, sending the windows back is a lousy option...oh yeah, now I get it, I could order them three months in advance<G>What line of work are you in? Banking?LOL Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',
The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.
I dont do new construction and have never had a quality problem with any of the windows I order. Besides, its just my opinion.
<I dont do new construction and have never had a quality problem with any of the windows I order. Besides, its just my opinion.>It would screw up a remodel even worse...and thanks for helping me weed out some more delusional opinions<G> Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',
The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.
Beg to differ.... Anders "E" n, has one level of quality... very average. They do, however, have several price points to offer depending on the bells and whistles you want. All come from the same point of manufacturing.
There is no free lunch. You get what you pay for.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
The Marvins are hands-down better built than Andersons, but then again, I think that you can get higher end Andersons that get closer in quality. I used to have some Marvins in my house, but gave them to a friend as we are undergoing a major remodel. The new windows that I will be ordering are the Integerity Windows by Marvin. Its a line of windows from Marvin that has fewer choices than the full on Marvin and an exterior fiberglass/resin cladding as opposed to aluminum. For the quantity that I needed, I'm saving thousands!
Integrity is a FG window, not just FG cladding, I believe
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Integrity is pultruded ('pull-extruded') fiberglass.
Jeff
Right, but my point is that it is a single material throughout, not clad over wood
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Integrity is clad exterior fiberglass with wood interior. The INFINITY
is all fiberglass, primarily used as a replacement much like the RENEWAL
product from Andersen. INFINITY is also under separate management and distribution than all other Marvin products.
The wood interior is an option but they are available (basic line) all Ultrex (pultruded fiberglass) - http://professional.integritywindows.com/protectiveEdge/ultrex.cfm
Jeff
Maybe I was told wrong then. I have used integrity doors and they are all the same material inside and out. I assumed the windows were the same. I was told that the windows can be had with a wood finish interior but assumed it was a veneer. One of the main selling points in this neck of the woods is that they will not rot becuase they ccannot rot, because they are not wood to begin with.I'll have to chedk it out better.
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Within the Integrity line you can get f/g ext wood interior or all f/g.
The infinity is = to Andersen's renewal. The all f/g is nothing more than a high grade vinyl type set-up. The wood allows for interior trim etc.
apparently you know little about Marvins FG product. It is far superior to any vinyl window.The day might even come when I say it is better than wood windows.
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Its got an awful lot of wood on it for a FG windiow! When I checked them out, I'd say about 90% of the window is wood. The main thing that they are lacking over the standard Marvin line is the aluminum SDL insert between the glass panes and the ability to customize.
It is only the interior 1/2" that is wood on the Integrity.
Correct. Integrity is all fiberglass with a wood interior.
I suggest all you Marvin fans check into how they let their customers twist in the wind when they had a rot problem several years ago. Not pretty.
Kowboy
Customers were not left twisting in the wind. All product that was registered was replaced at Marvin's cost. Marvin has always stood behind their product and have a warranty that is second to none.
Funny, when needed replacement windows and called Marvin and mentioned it, the salesman had no rebuttal to my allegations.
Kowboy
MARVIN WINDOWS AND DOORS Breach of Warranty Rotten Windows and Doors Warroad Minnesota
CompanyMARVIN WINDOWS AND DOORSAddress:P.O. Box 100Warroad Minnesota 56763U.S.A. Phone:800-263-6161
We would like to add our voice to the others out there who have had Marvin Windows and Doors rot out. We installed a huge number of windows in our new home in 1996 and since then our windows have rotted out. There is so much ice on them in the window you can scrap it off with your fingers. The same with the black mold and rotten wood on the windows. Marvin will not honor the warranty and we are very upset. Misery loves company.Upset in USAHometown, PennsylvaniaU.S.A.
http://www.ripoffreport.com/view.asp?id=88383&view=printer
Kowboy
Edited 4/20/2007 11:06 pm ET by Kowboy
I don't know what the context of that letter is, but from how it reads, it sounds like windows installed in a too humid home
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Kowboy -
Please post photographs of your rotted windows - thanks.
Jeff
Jeff:
I do not have Marvin or Andersen rotted windows. The twenty-year-old house I bought six years ago had some rotted windows, sorry I can't remember the name, but I got replacements from the manufacturer very inexpensively.
I looked at replacing them all with Marvin when I remembered their warranty problems.
Kowboy
My Andersons were just installed today. I have quite a discerning eye and I am pleased with the quality. I have the 400 series Woodwrights. Unless you are building a high end custom home and need a top of the line window to finish off the details the Andersons are a great choice. I have no regrets
LOL, so were they Andersons, AndersEns or Woodrights
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No...they were Endersen Woodlight's. Good product though!
Kind of a lousy thing to post in big, bold type when you don't know the situation. Marvin's rot problems were mostly related to exterior rot. What this describes is definitely a humidity issue, no wonder they didn't get them replaced a warranty claim.I've been on a four day (three night) foray to Marvin a long time ago, before Integrity, and the ultimate double hungs. Flew up on a 20+ passenger turbo prop and back on a 8 passenger. The Jet was in the Warroad hanger during both my flights. I don't think it got above -10º F while I was there. Impressive company. I agree with Piffin, of the windows mentioned Marvin is hands down the best quality.
Forget the dealer, try the distributor or go direct to Marvin. Has anyone from Marvin or the distributor seen the windows? Were there places on the home, such as shotty flashing that could have contributed? An abundance of humidity in the home? Wood exterior with failing finish coat of paint with little maintenance? Where is the rot?
late eighties - a lot of window companies had the same problem with rot after the Fed Govt required changing the wood preservative used.I had good experience with Marvin replacing things at that time.Andersen also made a few enemies back then.Pella continues to ignore customers with problems now.
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I personally had a few "rot problems". The cause of the rotting was the old "X-L" finish, as it was referred to. Marvin stood behind everyone that I turned in for my customers, to their satisfaction. If you had a problem with the resolution, I would suggest to you that someone in the chain dropped the ball. BTW, Marvin was the only wdw co that honored glass warranties beyond 5 years in the early 80's when the entire industry had issues!!!!
Marvin is the best out there.... Bar none
Ok, but what do you get for the money? Does anyone really notice once installed?
I installed 2 - 9' Andersen 400 series bay windows today and found them to be a total pain. I think they were trying to make it as easy as they could for them to make and leave a ton for the contractor to deal with. Not fond of the Andersen's but personally I use the Pella architect series with simulated true divided light. Craftsmanship is much better than Andersen's caulk all over the place.
Chuck
Pella? I would guess you are alone on this board. Not that I have an opinion, but have been reading here for sometime now. I would be interested to hear why you find Pella acceptable. And then watch the fireworks. No, really . . . I am interested to hear, the fireworks are just extra.
It is hard for me to beleive that Pella can continue to have "THE NAME" if half of what is said on this board about their product is true. It is a mystery.
I bought Pella's (60 plus pcs. worth) for my house up north and I was very happy with the windows and the one door that I bought. Not happy about the door prices. I have many more Anders'E'n windows in this house that are 17 years old. They are an OK window but don't and never have operated as smooth as the Pella units. I also like the hiding window crank feature of the Pella as well as the single latch lever on the taller units. FWIW the local yard that they were ordered from sell many more Pella over Andersen units I was told. We have a builder down on Cape Cod that hates Pella and loves Andersen. It all depends
and
You wi9ll find that the Pella will never orerate as smoothly as the ;)Marvins
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...and I just couldn't swing the Marvins with all the other stuff I did in the house. Something had to give other than my budget. I blew that by a long shot. :-) Doesn't everyone?
When I built homes, I told my customers that they should put their money into things that can't be replaced or added later. This way, you could add that marble floor or wider trim or the fireplace to be able to afford the highest quality products out there to put in your home, like Marvin widows..............
"May the forces of evil be confused on the way to your house." -George Carlin