Is it okay to splice hip rafters together?
Also why do some hip roofs have king common rafters on the end of the ridge and some don’t as in my hip roof.
Here are the pics of my roof.
Is it okay to splice hip rafters together?
Also why do some hip roofs have king common rafters on the end of the ridge and some don’t as in my hip roof.
Here are the pics of my roof.
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Replies
Is it okay to splice hip rafters together?
Yes, it is. Yours didn't go anywhere. I used to do it all the time before lvl's. The way your way spliced is exactly the way I did them.
Also why do some hip roofs have king common rafters on the end of the ridge and some don't as in my hip roof.
It's up to the framer and how he want to lay it out. Either way is alright.
Thanks Joe.
there was a thread earlier today on engineering for a hip roof, made me want to ask you if this was submitted to a planning dept or engineer today do you think it would fly?
doesnt a hip rafter carry some load, as opposed to a ridge for commons that is not structural?
and if it does carry some load how can it be calculated/ determined?
That seems like an elaborate splice that probably still needs a leg under it.
The choice of how the commons and hips come together is a personal choice matter. Neither way is stronger.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
You mean like a purlin or some type of brace across the splice?
I like to use a king common because it squares up my ridge and lets me know if anything might be out of whack... but they're not necessary.
Now that spliced hip, I honestly don't know what to think. My gut says no without any other support under it. But Joe's been framing a lot longer than I have so I'd have to defer to him as far as experience goes. In this day of engineered lumber I can't imagine why'd it'd need to be done that way though. And yours appears to be relatively new construction.
Well D, it's coming down for the new addition. Should I swap an LVL for the hip rafters?
Should I swap an LVL for the hip rafters?
Sure just swap 'em out. ;) That sounds like a bad day to me brother. How they holding up? Any sag? String 'em, if you're not sure. Don't think I'd change 'em if they were holding... maybe add a kicker. I think a hip rafter would have to be falling down on top of me before I'd start to think about swapping it out for something.
But you said it's coming down anyway, right? For the addition?View Image
Yeah it's coming down for the addition, but there is no sag in them after 7 years so I guess the jacks are holding it all together.Now the headers that are under this side of the hip roof are a different story. I'm glad all this will be redone.
Is a King common the same as a common common on an equal pitched roof? I'm thinking it is...but it butts to the ridge. Thats how we were taught to do them but I've done them every different way. As for that hip splice thing. I don't see any structural value in it. The only thing saving it is that hips don't fall down anyways because the jacks hold them up...despite what the engineers tell us. On the long hips, we never bothered to do anything except butt them togther....then put a leg under it and rest it on a partition or something (anything). I never saw the hips sag but the valleys are a different beast. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
That's how I do 'em Jim. My kinds are identical to my commons... and the 1/2 thickness of the ridge (that was deducted in the common) is added back to the length of the ridge. Is that what you were asking?
I've only seen one saggy hip... but it was true 2x6 and about 20' long... with three layers of shingles.
I've never seen a hip spliced like the one in the pic... but if you gotta splice one, it looks like a pretty clean way to do it. If you say the butted hip would fly, I'll take your word for it.....but me no like. :)View Image
Yes, that is what I was asking about the king common.Yes a butted hip will fly because it's also carried by a support underneath...a post of some sort. I just don't see any advantage in a hip splice like that. I guess I base my thinking this way. Would you splice a floor joist like that, then walk on it? I wouldn't. I would butt a floor joist, then add a post under the splice and walk on it though. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim do butted ridge beams need to be supported from below or do the rafters give the ridge enough support?How do you butt your ridge beams?
Butted ridge beams don't sag if the rafters are attached. In theory, you could eliminat the beam alltogether and the rafters will still hold themselves up, if they are opposing each other. The ridge is simply a layout tool that speeds up the installation process. So, to answer your question, I simply butt them and I don't add any studs or supports. Sometimes, an inspector who doesn't understand the engineering prinicples might request a leg under the joints and we comply but it really isn't necessary. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
If it is butted, it is a ridge board, not a ridge beam. A beam by definition is carrying load.what you left out here is that some sort of rafter ties are making a complete structural triangle with the rafters to eliminate need for a ridge beam.I have only seen one hip stitched together in my life. It was very old and very sagging. The wood had gotten dry and loose around the nails stitching it.But I've probably walked over a lot of hips that weere fine and just never saw them
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Good catch on the terminology. My bad. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I knew I wasn't teaching you anything, just keeping the info correct for the masses out there.
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You did teach me something...to pay attention to the words LOL! We can't steer the masses wrong...they'll go over to JLC and start a riot. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
They're not really neccassary, however some carpenters will use them depending on the lay out of the roof sheathing aswell some will not due to the samer reason.
Hello Viano. Are you referring to the jack studs?
I took his reply as referring to th e common king rafter you first asked about.He said it depended on layout.I like to layout for hip roof from center so that there is a common that lines up with the ridge. My main reason for that is then each next pair of rafters of descending size will be the same length - less figuring to do.I also often layout that sort of wall under the roof from center.But I have seen a lot of guys who always, always, always lay out from one corner for walls and roof which befuddles me because they make that roof framing so much harder
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Thanks Piffin.
"I also often layout that sort of wall under the roof from center."
I not sure I understand what you mean. Do you mean you start your wall layout from the center of a wall instead of a corner?
when I know the wall will support a hip roof or when the window layout is center balanced, I do the stud layout from center instead of from corner.
Then I layout the roof rafters from center also and that lines the one common rafter up with the ridge
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I was taught to lay out from center. In my later years, I didn't see a need. Of course, in those later years, I also didn't see a need to have a common on the end of the ridge. If the first common landed 6" in from the end, that was fine with me. I knew how to calculate for the jacks... Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I know how to calc too, but only have to do it half as often
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But I have seen a lot of guys who always, always, always lay out from one corner for walls and roof which befuddles me because they make that roof framing so much harder
Not sure why you would feel that way.
I often lay out a roof from the corners in - so that my hip jacks are spaced uniformly beginning always right at the very corner, and all right-hand corner hip jacks are identical throughout, as are all left-hand corner hip jacks. Since I like to pre-cut the roof pieces, this aids tremendously in that regard.
I have never found framing a roof this way to be more difficult. Sometimes, however, with exposed rafter tails, to visually look right I would have to "bob" the tail on the common jack centered on the ridge (I tend to put it in even if layout doesn't require it, because of its usefulness in getting the "skeleton" up - i.e. ridges, hips, and valleys).
And the center pieces of roof sheathing have to be cut to length. None of which is particularly "harder", and the small trade-off in time is well worth it, for the above-mentioned reasons.
To each his own, I guess. =)View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
We seem to have the same philosophy about where and how to start the layouts. I think my only difference would be the "bobbing" of the "extra" common that lines up with the ridge. I would only set it as a temporary fixture to help set up the frame, then remove it after the skeleton was stablizied. I'd then reuse it in the main field. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I would only set it as a temporary fixture to help set up the frame, then remove it after the skeleton was stablizied. I'd then reuse it in the main field.
Yeah, that's what I meant! (good idea)View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
I do it that way because I'm too cheap to leave a chunk of wood in there that isn't needed. At the minimum, I'd cut it up and use it for drywall backing. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I'm not saying any one way is better than another - just what I do and what makes sense to me.You layout in from both corners it sounds like, which achieves the same thing I get - equal sized rafters, except that you have to cut that sheathing in center to hit layout.
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Welcome to Breaktime - I see that was your first post.Would you fill out your profile so we know a bit more about you?
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