for those who weren’t here last fall…
| 47044.1 |
| Just got word last night that my Uncle (two years older than I) cut his left hand off with a Skill Saw while building a deck for a client. He’s a GC/remodeler. Details to follow. WSJ |
For the past couple of weeks we’ve been sporadically cutting and gluing up small urethane plastic boards for a regular customer. (One of WI larger mfr. employers). Never asked why, but to send work like that to our shop seemed strange.
Well I found out today that it was being done in-house prior, and the person doing the cutting on a tablesaw had a kick-back that struck him in the abdomen. Never sought medical attention and died of internal bleeding or something like that a day or two later.
I still have yet to get the full story, but that’s why it was being “out-sourced” to us.
Something to think about next time your rushing things.
Jon
Replies
Last year I reported that my table saw kicked back into my stomach twice in half an hour. I still have the tattoo marks.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=44529.1
Never even thought about going into a hospital for a look.
Guess I just got lucky.
Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR Construction
Vancouver, Canada
Edited 3/9/2005 10:14 pm ET by Aaron Rosenthal
How is your Uncle's hand?
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
How is your Uncle's hand?
Ed,
Reattached and non-functional.
Jon
im sorry to hear that. hope he's taking it okay, best of luck..______________________________________________
--> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad
Workshop,
How did this accident with your uncle (cutting his hand off) occur?
I've heard before that a person can accidently cut off his hand using a miter saw...especially if the spring mechanism inside the saw happens to fail. I owned a Milwaukie chop saw that I used for years and one day after just completing a cut and starting to walk away from the saw, it breaks...so I guess in theory this is one tragic way to cut off a limb.
But you said your uncle was using a skilsaw ( portable circular saw) so what happened?
Davo
Davo,I have the scar on my left wrist to prove that I nearly did just that. Cut my left hand off with a chop saw...The saw I was using had a dead spot on the armature. The boxx was nice enough not to tell me this. The saw jumped, I slipped, and my wrist ended up cut about a third of the way through.Yes, Piffin, I went back to work, that same day, after they sewed me back together and bandaged the wrist...
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.
How did this accident with your uncle (cutting his hand off) occur? "
He was cutting, free hand, a PVC material he had never used before, probably with a positive rake blade. Basically the blade grabbed the mtrl, flipped it, and he didn't let go.
Jon
My first wife's Italian uncle bricklayer ( you know what he looked like now) was on steel pipe staging and stepped back to stretch. Fell five or six feet to the next level down and lande on his back on some bricks stacked there.
He got up and went right back to work.
That night after dinner, he told his wife that he didn't feel right - kinda more tired than usual - and went to bed early.
Ruptured spleeen. He bled out that night and never woke up.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Ruptured spleeen. He bled out that night and never woke up."
Paul,
That's what I heard happened to this person.
Jon
He got up and went right back to work.<<<<Ya know what? Thats whats wrong with us A-holes.we get hurt all the time and blow it off.
I do it all the time.
Katrina asked me the other day where I got that nasty gash on my finger..said I don't remember.
The finger nail thats totally black....don't remember where I got that either....if we cried each time we hurt ourselves we'd need to be babied the rest of our live....hmmmm....not a bad idea is it?
Be breast fed
a...The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
Back in 1993, my buddy was cross cutting some boards on our shop's Oliver table saw. It had a 5 hp motor and a board kicked back into him. He went down..got up, and immediately went down again. He was taken to the company medical office and later transported to a local hospital. Next day, our boss says the guy is OK, just taking a few days off for the heck of it....truth of the matter was, guy suffered a ruptured spleen and did nearly die...it simply was being played down so not to alarm us.
Just 3 days ago, for the very first time in my life, I ripped a board and at the very end of the cut, I somehow didn't keep the board tight against the fence and WHAM!...kick back! The board was 1/2 inch thick OSB and it flew back and smacked into my Wayne Dalton garage door ( nice, insulated, metal door)....plywood ripped right through the door...nice gaping hole....board just nicked the top of my left hand and left a little scrape...no damage to me. I was lucky, I was intact, but my pride wasn't. In all the years of cutting wood on various table saws, I never first hand experienced a kick back until now...I've witnessed it happening to other guys, but never to me. I swore this would never happen to me...
Goes to show you just never know.
Davo
Kickbaacks are as amazing as tornadoes sometimes.
I was ripping some 1/2" plywood on a newly set up DW TS in an upstairs bedroom when it kicked out of my control. Ther was a bay window behind me, with upper sash open.
A piece of plywood something like 17" x 22" went thru an openning more like 14" square. I looked all over the room first, expecting to find it impaled in the cieling or wall. Couldn't believe it would fit thru that openning but there it was, laying out in the lawn below.
Guess I'm lucky it didn't take my face with it
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I love it when that happens.
Before I had ever experienced kickback, I thought I knew what it was all about. One day I was ripping some 1X on an old Makita portable and got to experience it. Good Lord. I think everyone should experience it just once to gain real respect for the power a tablesaw has.
A piece of 1X, maybe 2" X 16" hit me the 2" way about 3 inches to the left of my navel. I literally got knocked back about three steps. It took about 30 seconds to figure out what happened.... about as long as it took for the pain to kick in. Had a nasty looking raspberry on my gut for about a week and a half. I still get gun shy when I'm forced to stand in line with the blade for some cuts.
Kickback blows.
Cut the middle finger in half nearly to the second knuckle on a table saw... -15 in a back yard. Few years later cut my thumb off at the knuckle on the other hand. When I was headed to the hospital to get it sewn back on the ambulance driver told me about the other guy he took in the day before with a skilsaw stuck in his femur...
Had 2 guys cut the top of their thumbs off on Makita Chop Saws... the old telescoping 10inch. To this day I use the dewalt with the cuts through the guard so you can see.
Shot myself 20 odd times with brads and framer guns alike. Nearly put a cedar push stick through my hand on a kickback once. Nowadays I make the part I push curved so it isn't likely to puncture so badly. Had a guy off for nearly a year-he got a kickback in the gut one day... walking back to town the next day some kids thought it would be a good idea to throw rocks outa an SUV at 50 mph. I guess they didn't know he was visually impared... they got him right in the spot of the kickback the day before. I guess he laid there for 3 hours before he could muster the energy to stagger home... noone stopped.
It's a dangerous business... moreso when you work long hours.
Be careful gang.
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
May your luck improve. I have never heard of any one person having that many mishaps. In my book, your history is weird, very weird.
You know not the half of it... It's called irrepressible spirit-working too many hours-and equal parts good and bad luck for many years. It's all roses now though. Life is good. (not getting into the car accidents or the crushed discs).
The good lord throws at you what you can deal with.
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Your story brought back memories of my first kickback experience. The stationary belt-drive tablesaw was in a friend's cab shop.
I was free-hand bevel cutting the third side of a triangular piece of 1/2" ply, 12" or so per side. Doh. I'd jury rigged something or other using the sliding bevel device and got 2 good cuts. Doh again. In a flash, the blade picks the piece up and spins it back at me. It hit me hard in the gut, only it was a side rather than one of the points... The blade left the prettiest little spiral track on the workpiece.
I told my buddy who then showed me the hole a 2x ripping had made in the osb-sheated wall behind me.
I now give all table saws the respect they deserve. Push blocks are good, push sticks too; I've learned to cut tapers by fastening the workpiece to another that can slide along the fence. I screw the darn thing down so it won't tip over. I keep the ground clear around my feet, so as not to stumble. I spend as little time as possible in line with the blade. A sharp clean blade is a good thing. I check the kerf to see if it is closing in. I make sure the blade is clear before firing it up, or plugging it in. My own portable has been good to me - so far.
I know all the above is painfully obvious to the experienced folk on this board, but there's no harm in sharing a few safety tips with the wider BT membership. Table saws get angry in such a hurry...
Ya know what? Thats whats wrong with us A-holes.we get hurt all the time and blow it off.I do it all the time."
Andy,
Same here. Missed 3 days of work last week cause of a cut I got. Blew it off, taped it up and kept working. When my wife saw the cut (it want to the bone) she told me there was NOW WAY I was going to work for the rest of the week, See pic.
Jon
One more for fun.
jon
You better be tellin yer DW that that ain't shid...maybe if you cut yer arm off at the elbow and duct tape didn't work it might be a slight issue but gashes and rashes......you better educate her bout' our kinda work or tell her she shoulda married an accountant with lily white skin that only accumulates a tan.......
Dude,,,that gash is awesome .....I so love it!!!
Love you dude : )
a...The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
Baby mon!
Remind me not to read such topics rite after eating. I know some guys wear a thin magazine under thier shirt when working on the lathe and a catchers chest protector would help on a table saw .
Wish they made zero clearance throat plates for some of these take to the job table saws.Most have a metal plate that cant be retrofited altho I put that metal flashing tape on mine sometimes.
This may be sad and I may take heat but for your point about zero clearance I'll risk it.I to had the same concerns about a portable and I was on a job one day where they were installing solid surface vanity tops and it struck me.I asked for the scrap and he gave me a piece that I milled thinner and fit to my saw.Maybe a pain in the butt but it worked like a charm and the time spent was well worth it.I've since upgraded to the Bosch 4000 and bought a zero plate with the saw before I left.The main reason I was willing to invest the time is because I too have been bite by my saw. Lost about 3/8 " off my left thumb.The accident was caused by the thin fall off getting between the plate and the blade kicking up-hitting the keeper piece and the rest is a little blury till I was bleeding like a stuck pig and outta work for a month as the tender new skin over the bone in my thumb healed.Just felt the urge to share this with you about zero plates. I hope you are always safe and happy. Mike
<Just felt the urge to share this with you about zero plates>I want to say the same thing about zero plates, as I had anaccident not using one and didn't know I needed one until I was cutting a very narrow piece and pulling it through insteadof pushing(to be safe, ya know) Well, when I got to the veryend of the cut the piece was sucked in between the blade and the insert. Consequetialy pulling my thumb into the bladebut thank God it just tore off a small chunk of skin. I wasable to pull back very quickly. Mark that one up to a very good learning experience.
Butch--I lost the end of my thumb and some bone 2 years ago and in retrospect the piece that started the chain of events would have never gotten to where it started the trouble if I had had a zero plate.I consider myself fortunate that it was not worst and I have full feeling to the tip. Some times when I bang it I wish I hadn't any.LOL.You learned a valuable lesson for a bargain price and I hope you share it with others so that they may avoid what has happened to a lot of us.I read all these post about kickback and I try to avoid them with sharp blade and dry wood but some time I can feel the saw talking to me and I bail before it gives me trouble.I guess I got that leason for free from all the BT'ers. Be safe and work another day. Mike
"Maybe a pain in the butt but it worked like a charm and the time spent was well worth it.
I've since upgraded to the Bosch 4000 and bought a zero plate with the saw before I left."
mitremike, is the zero clearance insert in your saw used all the time, for all cuts, even those with larger material?
If so, and it's not too much of a pain in the butt, then it's probably time for me to do the same. What say the others?
Do the same.Make your own.Cut the insert without a cutout in the middle. Just a solid piece. Use melamine, plywood, oak, corian, whatever is laying about, cuts easily with your tablesaw, and is rigid enough. Doesn't take much rigidity.Drop the blade all the way. Screw down the insert. Start the saw. Raise the blade through the new insert. Viola' TRUE zero clearance insert.
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.
Two of the worksaws Ive used just had thin plates with tabs that hooked on to the table ; no real recess like a shop saw.I guess one could buy another plate and bondo the whole clearence area then raise the blade to sut the slot.Open throats scare me more than any other item on saws!
Just had a look at my Skill builder's portable (Model 3400).
The insert is thin metal, sitting in a thin recess, flush with the tabletop. There's no room for a home-made zero insert.
I'll contact Bosch/Skill to see if they sell one as an accessory.
Thanks for your help Luka.
Can you get a couple pictures of the saw and the insert ?Close ups.Show the table with the insert removed, as well.Before asking for the pics, I decided to google to see if I could get a look at what I am interested in seeing, and I found these, but no pics...The skill model 3400 tablesaw has been recalled...http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml05/05063.htmlHere's a portable table/cabinet some guy made for the same saw as yours...http://www.grampasworkshop.net/sawtable.html
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.
I'll have to email the pics to you Luka - I tried posting pics a few months back (asbestos siding thread) but couldn't get it done. Too dark right now - so tomorrow.
My saw predates the model years of the recall.
Ok, I'll be watching.
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.
Pierre--I use the zero plate for all 90 degree cuts ---I have had knots pull out of the bottom side and bounce around in the saw something wicked. I use the factory open plate for off angles and of course a dado insert when putting a stack toghether.The pain in the butt I was refering to was making a zero plate for my delta bench top but once done I found it worth the time.I have found that plates are like blades---any will do it is just that the right one is---well lets just say --A whole lot more comfortable to use.Here's to a safer day--for all of us . Mike
I just posted a new item today - asking for safety tips on a cheap $99 table saw that I just purchased (still in the box). Then I found this thread on a search. I read your explanation about a zero plate, but I still can't really visualize what it is, what it looks like, and how I might make one myself. It might help if I even understood the safety principles behind it. How does a zero plate work? Does it prevent kickback? How does it do that? Any safety tips from you would be appreciated. Or if you know of any good links on the web where I can read-up on table saw safety..
Thanks! Crackshot.
Not to answer for mikebut I believe I had the same thing happen to mewhen cutting a small piece of wood on a table saw.I was on the back side pulling the piece through the cutand when I got to the end of the board the saw bladesucked the piece that I was cutting between the bladeand the table consequently pulling my still-attachedhand into the saw and clipping the end of my thumb.If I had the zero clearance plate in the saw this wouldn'thave happened.. That was a real eye opener for me.So a zero clearance insert is just what it says,It has just enough clearance for the blade with no gapon either side.
Pulling a board through a table saw is pretty bad form butch. You're probably lucky that a clipped finger is all that happened to you.
Well I learned a very valuable lesson that day. I promise I won't forget it either. :-)
I'm gasping for air after reading that you PULLED a board through the TS. The zero throat is the least of your problems when you try a bonehead thing like that. The direction of blade spin virtually gaurantees that anything that goes amiss will pull you into the blade. You are one lucky devil theree, Butch. Now, here is your assignement - Go count all your fingersevery dayGet to know them - they can be good friends. Give them names. Take them out for a drink. play around together. Once you get on an intimate basis with them, you will treat them better and respect them more.;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
<when you try a bonehead thing like that. >Alright already, I learned my lesson.But alas I still do have all 10 didgits.Thank God I only needed 3 stiches.Uh,um didn't you say you where missing half a one or so Not trying to rub it in or nothin. :-)And isn't this what this forum is all about, to learn fromothers mistakes???
Edited 10/29/2005 5:53 pm ET by butch
That's why I'm a-tellin' ya in a fun way!An olde timer told me the best way he has of focusing on keeping his fingers safe is to count all ten of them every morning and then again when he goes home every evening
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I know you was funnin meI was trying to fun back :-)
Hey Crackshot, just to add a few more things... agree with everyone else who answered that the tablesaw just doesn't give a good rip (pun intended) what it's cutting - wood, fingers, nails, etc. When you are in that "danger zone" of about 6" on the push side and 24" on the outfeed side, you gotta consider yourself on shaky ground. Do you hear that little voice in your head telling you you're doing sumthin stupid?
You've spent your $99 so you're pretty well stuck with that. For I believe about $1500 you can buy a special saw that stops with a couple of milliseconds of hitting soft things, like hot dogs and fingers, but even if I had one, I wouldn't go testing how well it works! That's the perfect saw for absolute klutz's with lots of $$$$ to kill.
One thing I've found very helpful is push sticks. They come in all kinds of variety and you can make your own. But my all-time favorite is one i cobbled together from a 1/4" star drill (yep, for drilling holes in concrete)which i epoxied into a file handle. It grabs those little pieces and pushes them nice and safe past the blade. Since your fingers are about 12" from the blade you can still count all 10 fingers when you tuck in at night!
Also, the following things are very likely to cause kickback:
not having the saw blade and fence parallel to each other
(particularly bad if the fence forces the cut piece into the far
end of the blade coming up out of the table! Fine Woodworking
had an article not too long ago about tuning your table saw...
look it up
the kerf closing up on you past the blade (fix: stop the saw and
don't do a thing until the blade stops; push a wedge of some
kind in the kerf - wood is safest, but i've use a screwdriver in
a pinch and lived to tell about it - to keep the cut open at
least the width of the blade, typically 3/16 should do it for a
1/8" kerf blade)
torquing or twisting either part of the cut wood into the "far
end" of the blade; the blade grabs it and throws it back toward
your head
not pushing the cut board all the way past the end of the blade
after you've completed the cut
using a support roller on the outfeed side that is not
perpendicular to the wood rolling over it - this cants the wood
into the blade and zooms it past your head too
anyone want to add more????
Another issue is how high to raise the blade. I recall someone telling me years ago that the higher the blade the less teeth in the cut, and that was good for the blade. BUT, having that much blade above the wood scares the hell out of me, at least. If I have the top of the blade about 1/2" above the wood surface, it feels a lot safer. There are probably lots of opinions about that too!
One thing I've learned about tools: when you NEED a tool, buy the best one you can afford at the time. It's such a competitive market that there is usually a quality issue involved with a higher price. Caveat emptor and "ya gets what ya pays fer."
Don't forget to set your clocks back tonight...
I raise the blade 1/4" above my material, use a push stick, and stand to the side of the board. Outfeed table and zero clearance insert is mandatory to me also.
DaveSharp - Thanks for taking the time to give me all those details. I appreciate it. I've learned a lot about table saws. So far, I still have all ten fingers.
You know the gesture that a home base umpire makes when the batter steps back, or the catcher signals time, or for some reason the action from the pitcher has to pause?
Raises both hands in the air?
That's what I've started to do right after the board is through, after the switch has been turned off, and the blade is spinning down to a stop. I started doing this after catching myself reaching for the off cut before the blade stopped spinning.
What ever it takes.
My learning started in 8th grade shop class when the instructor stood before us in his classic gray labcoat and held up one hand at a time, telling how he lost about 6 of his finger parts ("this one on a shaper, this one on a jointer," etc.). Scared the H... out of us all and gave us great respect for the machines. He's the one who first told me, "the machine doesn't give a good damn with it's cutting...) - and that's so true. This has been a fascinating thread!
Keep 'em all!
my shop teacher was also missing a few digits and bill cosby talks about his shop teacher miissing fingers on one of his albums. must be a shop teacher thing.
>>> push sticks. ... my all-time favorite is one i cobbled together from a 1/4" star drill (yep, for drilling holes in concrete)which i epoxied into a file handle. It grabs those little pieces and pushes them nice and safe past the blade.
I would find this a bit scary and dangerous, not to mention potentially destructive to the blade and your face. If I understand this correctly, you are using a metal/carbide rod and push it within a fraction of an inch of a metal and carbide blade spinning at ~4000 RPM. Not worried about the 2 contacting and the after-effects?
Star drills I have used we not carbide..but it STILL is a stoopid Idea to use a METAL push stick at all. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"I don't think it's funny no more" Nick Lowe.
Best push stick in the world is a wedge-shaped off-cut from a 2x. Back end about 1½ wide, o/a length about 6-8". First time you use it, stick the thin end into the blade just a bit to put a small notch in it; use that notch to grab the workpiece and shove er right on through. Doesn't matter if ya skin the blade with the push stick.
Don't cost much, either....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
I confess...yrs ago I used an awl in my tool pouch as a pusher. My bad.
I agree with your observation, any decent scrap CAN work, I still favor some bandsawn handle types..I get on a tear, and whack a bunch at atime and scatter them near the jointer and T/S and router tables. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"I don't think it's funny no more" Nick Lowe.
I still favor some bandsawn handle types..
Dadburn it! Now y'all made me wanna go buy a bandsaw....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Doode, there's a whole hell of a lot of better reasons to have a band saw, just can't think of one now LOLI used to knock out a bunch of sculpted ergonomic babies for every spot in the shop, thing is, I'd use 'em til they got dangerous. But man, they looked good<G>All my push sticks now are 1/4" plywood toe kick scraps. Rip a light 1/4" notch, like Rasco's pusher has, in about a 16" long piece. You can grab it anywhere, and you can hold stuff down with it, as well as push. And when it gets wacked, rip it again, or chuck it...makes a good fly swatter, too<G> "what's in a name?" d'oh!
Okay, ya made me get up off my arse and go down to the shop and take the picture....
View Image
Now that's an elegant push stick. Note how carefully crafted is the notch to hold the work, and how the clearance rabbet is precisely angled to mirror the blade projection when set at the working height for 7/8" stock. Also note please the careful choice of wood for this important project, being CVG Spruce #2 rafter stock. Finally see that lovely patina this piece has acquired over the many many years it has served me so well....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
elegant, indeed!
how did you get all those precisely spaced and depthed holes in the workbench? Cool!
Many many years of practice in overdrilling clearance holes by a precise amount, LOL....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
a number of yrars ago, I was without a pushstick while making a rip ( I know, first mistake)
mid-cut I thought I'd use the butt end of my Estwing hammer, figuring the rubber would work well.
somehow, I caught the hammer on the blade. bending the blade AND the hammer shaft.
I don't use that hammer anymore, but I keep it around as a reminder. Sometimes I'm amazed at how lucky I've been.
Sometimes I'm amazed at how lucky I've been.
I know that feeling. And I can personally testify as to why luck is oft referred to as 'dumb', LOL....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
An assistant carpenter once worked with a guy who had a wide thin board kick back as he trimmed the thin side. The force of the kickback broke a number of bones in his fingers and hands leaving him with a 90% fused hand with little useful movement.
That story keeps me from questionable cuts, despite having little chance of getting cut.
Don
I'm gonna make a glass push stick.
actually, that would be safer to an extent..glass shatters, steel impales...lemme know how it works. Start with a lightbulb maybe..lol Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"I don't think it's funny no more" Nick Lowe.
>>> but it STILL is a stoopid Idea to use a METAL push stick at all
Thanks for being blunt about it, I'm always trying to be subtle, trying to see the other guy's perspective, PC and all. I figure the ones who still don't get it will be taken care of by Darwin's law.
OTOH, the geniouses (sp?) at Rockler may not agree with you that a metal pushstick is a bad idea. They claim this one of aluminum is safe for your blade, but don't mention anything about what it can possibly do to your face if it hits the wizzing blade.
http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product_details.cfm?offerings_id=10271&filter=60631
It only costs $9.99, pretty blue color and all. what a deal.
I have a fancy plastic push stick. But normally I use a shim or stirstick or something I find laying around (not steel or aluminum or glass).
The 5 gal paint stir sticks work well. You can cut a notch to make it work better (like the one in the link below). I use one of the plastic shoe types also.
This is another one I use.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=33279
That plastic one is a duplicate in shape at least to mine. They aren't much better than a wood stick though. They put up a new Harbor Freight close to me a couple months on the south side, already had one on the north. Walked thru the new store and got a lighted triple tap outlet and a can of chain lube. Near everything is from some sort of communist/socialist society. Bought some dolly wheel there once. I wish they would upscale their suppliers a bit.
forget to mention that i usually wear a full face guard and 29 NRR ear muffs while working the table saw. started doing that when i got hit in the face with a piece of WOOD going however many mph they go coming off the blade (who's the mathematician around here?)
Hi - agree, but it is better than putting your fingers that close to the blade. I don't know of any other way to cut a narrow piece, particularly repeatedly and accurately, than against the fence. The longer the board/piece of wood, the better this works. Then we get into support of the board on the outfeed side. Have never hit the blade with the carbide, which I agree, has potentially bad effects! Please see my reply to SharpBlade about other ways to cut small pieces.
Nobody mentioned the other problem: the small hole in the workpiece from the star drill tip - you have to sand it out or fill it in or put it on the bottom of your workpiece. I usually try to cut the board with the good side down to the table.
I guess what ever floats your boat. But the notched stick holds the workpiece very well, should not slip, and does not make a hole in the workpiece. I had rather dodge the stick than a star drill. Then it is so much better since the saw will cut the stick, not fling it. There was a comment about someone's aluminum push stick, there is quite a bit of difference in alum and hardened steel.
I hesitate to call someone stupid but not against calling them ill-advised. (:-)
don't want to get into a big deal about this, but if i recall, i tried the small drill bit after having wooden push sticks slip on the wood and actually feel "more dangerous" (ie less control on the pushed wood). have never had to dodge the flying steel, and would not be using it if i felt that was a danger. in other words, the metal in most instances is more than an inch from the blade. anything wide enough to grip with a formed plastic push pad with an offset handle and foam bottom (from Woodworker's Supply) gets pushed with that. but the smaller pieces (1/2" up to about 4" cut width) have way more combined control of down and forward pressure with the 1/4" star drill than any other method I've tried or heard of.
speaking of dangerous - have noted several others relating stories of rip cutting on their radial arm saws and having kickback experiences - agree - one tool i'm glad i don't own anymore! though it is good for radial drilling and making half-lap joints on a bunch of pieces.
No big deal, I rip as small as 3/8 with a piece of lattice or paint stirring stick with a notch that allows both down and forward force and against the fence with no slip. Without some kind of a notch there is much less control. Best wishes for your continued good luck.
FWIW, I preferr a more meaty piece as a push stick, so cut out a 1/2" plywood push tool that has a handle kind of like a handsaw that I can get my whole hand into and more easily apply down force while also lateral force against the fence whil pushing through. It's about 18" long and keeps my right hand more than 6" from the blade.
Sounds good. I have had no problem pushing pretty big pieces with the thick 5 gal stir stick.
I have one similar to this also:
View Image
View ImageThe second one is what I have
Yeah, like that, except made out of plywood I don't mind shaving off the corner a bit when angling to get better pressure against the fence.
Also, FWIW, if the blade is right on 90* perpendicular to the table (check regularily with good tri-square), both edges are already parallel, it's a long piece, and you just need to get the piece cut to the same width, just run it in until you've reached the danger point, pick it up off the blade, then reverse and upside down to put the OTHER edge against the fence and meet the cut that way.
I'm sure most folks know this, but there may be some neophytes tuned in.
thanks rasconc - may make me one of those out of plywood - like the handle part for even more control. like we've been saying: if it can't move, it will have more trouble kicking back.
I hear you about stoopid to get metal near a rotating blade, but I've never had a problem with it, and it is way better than having my finger near the blade. The table saw doesn't like sideways motion around the far side of the blade; that seems to be the main starter of accidents. Pushing a small piece past the blade with good pressure down and toward the fence works for me. There are those times when you ask yourself, "is there some other way to cut this little piece of wood?" I've also got a chop saw (equally dangerous, and I use a new fence and a stick of wood to hold my piece down against the fence), a band saw (ever try to cut something round and have the blade grab it and spin it out of your hand?), a DW jigsaw and Japenese pull-stroke saws. Point is, I guess, to listen to that little man on your shoulder, and do what you feel comfortable with.
Most dangerous habit in the shop: boredom and distraction. Cutting repeat pieces, someone taps you on the shoulder in the middle of a cut, etc.
I too have a back up 99$ saw and the plate is just a thin plate and has no provisions for a zero plate--Hense when I got my Bosch I made the Corian one from installer scrap.I used the standered plate as a template to get the right oval shape and the scrap started as 1/2 material that I planed to 5/16 to sit in the blade pocket --start the saw and make the kerf.Because the Delta has a thin steel plate I don't have one for that saw but I don't use it often and it never gets on the job anyway.the other posters have covered the benifits to a zero plate so I will finish by saying if you are interested I will help all I can to have you make one--Just know that most better saws have them availible from the manufacturer. Since it is still in the box maybe an upgrade is in order. Mike" I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
Mitremike -
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I might purchase a TS someday, but for right now I'm just using a circ saw with a rip guide. I never did open the box. Took it back and got a full refund. I still have all ten fingers.
Crackshot
I used to never even show a discoloration with bruises, but now, I get one every week or two, and half the time, I don't know what caused it. psychosomatic conditions -
I fell off a ladder and landed on my tailbone once. With my 25' Stanley right there! I got right back to it. First roof job that spring and the bank was hungry for money. I never felt a thing until I finished the job three days later, cleaned up, and got a check. On the way top town my back got sore. Next day, I could hardly move for pain in my tailbone.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
When I used to go to the gym a lot, I read a magazine article that said continuing to train after a heavy session minimised soreness the following day.
After a really hard go at the gym, I went back the next day and kept at it. And the next, and the next. I skipped the normal rest day.
No soreness, no pain. Waahooo. I thought I had avoided it.........until I had a rest day. Oh my..........a world of pain. Just delayed the inevitable. Just gotta eat it, wait a day, then go back and creep round sore as hell til it ends. <G>
Everything, 100% of it, depends on how you look at it.
DW
Paul
Problem with us old timers now is......our wounds take longer to heal I'm noticing.......and not only that..oiy...my aches and pains for different jobs I'm doing gets me more sore than it used to.
So far I've spent maybe two days in the shower stall I'm doing, tween' framing, mudding and tiling...My knees, my "ankles" are killing me and I won't even bring up my back and hands.
Only thing is.if I stop I know it'd be my dimise!!!
Be expiring...oh yeh....and
Be well
a...The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means.. I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides, I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace. I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
Edited 3/12/2005 10:16 am ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
"Problem with us old timers now is......our wounds take longer to heal I'm noticing.....".
Andy,
Ain't that the truth. As a kid you could break a bone and be good to go in six weeks.
I fell off a ladder ten years ago and whacked my shoulder. My fingers went numb two days later (thank got my brother is an MD, so I can call him anytime). The gist of it was swelling shut down the main nerve to my hand.
Still took two years for the pain to go away though.
Jon
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
I've been meaning to ask you if "Not always so" is actually two words in Japanese or Chinese or whatever the original language is.
I've been meaning to ask you if "Not always so" is actually two words in Japanese or Chinese or whatever the original language is.>>>>>Its probably four words if you can read between the lines my brotherman
Be well
Namaste'
a...The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
The secret of Zen is unconscious consciousness, oops, I told.
The secret of Zen is unconscious consciousness, oops, I told.<<<<<David,
There are no secrets.Its right in front of you and in you and all around you.
You just need to "be". Its pretty simple.... we just make it complicated.
"BE" well
Namaste'
a...The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
Ask Eugen Herrigel.
Ask Eugen Herrigel.<<<<<Yeh
I read some of his stuff....The art of Archery or what ever it was called....nice dude.
Personally I dug The Art Of Motorcycle Maintence or Trout fishing In America if ya wanna get into it a bit more cause it was more me...not that that matters to anyone else.
Ram Dass is my main man as everyone here knows....I relate more to him than anyone else on the planet. He does it for me....
Be well
Namaste
a...The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
A few days ago I said the thing to do is forgive myself and forgive all others to be free. That has been good. This morning I was working on that when I woke up at four. I remembered TFIA and In Watermelon Sugar. It had been more years than I care to remember since I had read them. Age creeps up, and sometimes we are more aware than others.
I finished rereading ZatAoMM last month. I studied it slowly to find out what attracted me to it in the seventies. Quality was the theme that drew me.
Edited 3/13/2005 9:06 am ET by Ziggy
read Ram Dass's book, "Still Here" as opposed to his original way back when ,"Be Here Now"....he wrote it after his stroke (Still Here).
In it he says he's the "scout" for the baby boomers....He's about 20 years older'n me and I'm 53....hmmmm ...in a week I'll be 54.
Simple book but it left me thinking good things.
Be well
Namaste'
a...The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
One word, isn't it?
Wish I could make the Fest at Calvin's, meet you guys, join into the carryings-on, mebbe wrassle with Buck, but 'tis far far away from these here Rocky Mountains.
Be well Andy. Pierre
One word, isn't it?>>>>ain't about words.its about.............
Was talking to my wife Katrina tonight about when we move in about three years..said I always wanted to live in the Rockies.she wants warm weather.I said...gotta weigh the whole deal out. I mean after you're 50 you start feeling the aches and pains more.
Rockies is gods cntry..but then I reckon there are places a hair warmer and almost as purty.....
Be well dude
a...The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
The Rockies are cold in places, and quite benign in others. There's lots of micro-climatic variations within short driving distances. Lower elevations and southerly exposure deliver the best homesites.
Rule of thumb is that the north-south valleys close to the Canadian border benefit from lenient winter temperatures, as warm air flows up from Eastern Washington's desert areas. Some of the valleys are so warm they seldom have snow, while the nearby mountains are smothered in quality pow-pow. Hummmm.
Many north-south ranges straddle the border: there's the Rockies proper, the Purcells, the Columbias, the Monashees, finally the Coast Range. No doubt I've left some out. The Pacific-Northwest mountains are not at all like the Colorado Rockies, which are deep-chilled by Arctic airflows spilling down the Great Plains.
Here's an example for Montana:
The town of Whitefish enjoys average Jan. daytime temps of approx. 25-28F. Whitefish is next to the famed Glacier Nat. Park (Rocky Mtns), but it's also close to Flathead Lake (kayaking, sailing) and Flathead River (cutthroat trout). Above town is the excellent ski hill called Big Mountain, with mucho powder snow just like in the ski porn mags. The valley bottom is quite lush and warm: fruit trees, lots of Ponderosa pines on rocky ridges perfect for horseback riding, camping, whatnot. In other words, an amazing place to live.
If you settle near a resort or college town, there's top-of-the-line building and finishing work to be had, as folk who've done well emigrate (or buy 2nd or 3rd homes) to the Pacific Northwest for the good air, water, scenery, and lifestyle.
Mountain folk are nice so long as you don't set out to tell them how it's done in New England... But I don't imagine that would be your style.
Ooops, that was way more than one word wasn't it.
Cabinetmaker here, visiting from Knots. Ever notice how so many of these violent kickbacks come from half or quarter inch sheet goods? Been nailed once or twice myself, yet have ripped far more hardwood than sheet goods with far fewer kick backs. Also watch out for that cheap pine from the big box stores. Half the time its case hardened due to poor kiln dring. Willl wrap around the back of the blade and kick back something awful.
We don't have a Home Depot to blame in these parts (interior of British Columbia), so we resort to blaming the local lumber yard/bldg. centre
The owner, a pillar of society in our small town, leaves 2x lifts out in the rain or snow, with the sawmill's shipping tarp flapping in the wind. He can't afford the lumber to build sheds, or the money to grade the yard. Nail it up fast once the bands are cut. He sells boxes of blunt screws that don't want to get started; some of the Robertson drive holes are plugged with god knows what, right from the factory. He sells the cheapest POS drill driver bits, at a hefty price.
Needless to say, this man is cursed thousands of times a day by a couple hundred tradesmen. But he's the only game in town...
A good horse-whipping by HD would do him some good!
Edited 3/12/2005 8:33 pm ET by Pierre1
My first summer on a jobsite we were building a water treatment plant. Forming and pouring concrete every day. Typically my crew would be incharge of all the wall forming, straigtening pouring and stripping. My foreman at the time was miserable ego maniac. For one reason or another he decided this one day that we were to busy to pour a wall so some of the 'slab' guys would pour it for us. About 11:00 rolls around and we here a LOUD snap. The crane had been flying in buckets of concrete as usual. As he was lowering his boom the tension got too great and the cable snapped dropping a 120 ft. boom and a large dumper bucket down ont the guys below. One man was standing right between the 'lattice' work of the boom and only got scraped from a bold as the boom fell around him. One had his leg broken. Two were impaled on rebar killed instantly from the head injury. After that everyone had swore never to work under that crane again. Sure enough 2 weeks later we were all working under that crane again.
This past summer we were out in the middle of parrysound(Cottage Country) One guy was cutting some stairs had the saw come back(he was holding the guard) run up his pants and into his thigh. He cut right down to the bone, somehow missed the artery. Luckily that morning had been a little icy and the ambulance was coming back from another call and happened to be only 5 minutes away. He's now back to work with an 'shark bite' on his leg. It's only been 4 or 5 months now and he's close to 100% Amazing how fast we can hurt our bodies and how quickly they can heal.
Amazing how fast we can hurt our bodies and how quickly they can heal."
Hammer,
Only when you are young......
Jon