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I will be installing some owner supplied 7″ wide oak plank flooring. Are there any inherent problems with these wider boards?
The job scenario is as follows:
Joists run parallel to hardwood in half of room then crosses over to run perpendicular in half of room. Over crawlspace with concrete slab and continuous vapor barrier.
Subfloor is 3/4 t&g ply. 15# felt then flooring will be blind nailed throught the tongue.
The planks were milled locally and are not end matched. Is end matching necessary? If not end matched during installation, should ends be fastend mechanically?
I am a little leery of this installation as my experience has been installing primarily boards under 5″. I thought somebody mentioned here that wider boards are problematic.
Thanks,
Tom
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Tommy,
David Thodal, in the thread on cracks in a wide pine floor, gives some very good advice on laying wide board.
I would add that there is a danger with a hard varnish finish of 'edge-bonding', where the varnish acts as an adhesive and glues the tongue and groove together, so that any movement in the timber results in splitting. I would go for oil or wax.
*Wide planks are not used regularly because no one can gaurantee the results...No one. That doesn't mean you can't get lucky.Near the stream,aj
*Tommy, just a thought, but how dry are these boards and how have they been seasoned? Who will be responsible if there is excessive shrinkage or expansion - you or the homeowner? Homeowner supplied materials can get you in big trouble if you're not careful.
*Done correctly I think you can pretty well minimize cracking, if not eliminate it. When you are doing the job think about just barely holding the flooring in place and isolated as much as you can from the subfloor. That means a layer of something between the flooring and the subfloor. Take your pick of your favorite paper or felt. Then minimal nailing with the idea of giving the flooring lots of room to move with the seasons. But you get the idea.If you are using well dried, acclimated material you certainly can't guarantee no cracking but you can make it so little at least the customer will believe you that it was unavoidable.When you choose the finish I agree you should pick something that will not restrict movement if you at all can.
*Thanks for the input guys,My contract does not provide for warranty of owner supplied materials, and this point has been pounded into their heads.Fred, that's an interesting comment. I was always taught that the wider the plank the tighter the nail spacing.What about the end matches? I'm inclined to biscuit end to end.Tom
*TommyB, I use a slotting bit usually 1/4inch to cut the ends and then spline them. I can cut up the splines ahead of time. I like matching the roller bearing with the depth of the groove so the toungue will fit in nicely with little wiggle room. This is only importyant if your application involves matching end to length, say at a border or threshold. I find I get a tighter fit with a full length spline, than with a biscuit. You do not want to glue the joint, let it float. I do not nail the ends. That is why a snug fit is essential. 7" witdth is about as wide as I would go with edge nailing. If you are using a floor nailer keep your nails about 8-12" apart and at least 2" from the ends.I would have concerns about running flooring parallel to joists even with 3/4plywood and 16" centers. I would like to see blocking between the joists or can you runn that flooring diagonally? Make sure your subfloor is dry as the floor.walk good david
*That sounds good David. I've always heard that the material needs to be within 1% of the subfloor to be considered "acclimated".
*Jim, I am convinced that more flooring problems result from the subfloor being wetter than the floor when the flooring is installed. If you purchase flooring from a dealer/mill it arrives about 7%. And unless you live in a very humid environment it will stay at that if properly stored. However your subfloor is exposed to rain and/or snow long after the roof is on with people walking in and out all day. Add to that drywall, texturizing, paint, you are running a lot of moisture into the house before the floor goes down.. The heat is not usually on,relying on kerosene or propane heaters, which in themselfs put out alot of moisture.Check the subfloor moisture and it will be around 12-15%. Laying 15#felt will not eliminate the problem. The new floor will suck up that moisture while it is acclimatising and then dry out after installation. On narrow strip flooring, it is less of a problem as shrinkage per board is less, but it becomes very noticable on wide boards.That is why subfloor moisture and flooring moisture need to be the same, but they both should be close to 7%.walk good david
*David, I appreciate the good information. I have always seen the need to purchase a moisture meter, just haven't had the inclination just yet.I was planning on nailing 8" o.c. Installing blocking is not an option, althought the joists are exposed, they are full of mechanicals. They would be far from continuous. If the owner had consulted me I would have recommended 4" planks max. The material is custom and on site so its going in.Thanks,Tom
*Tommy:Yeah that is what most folks think, and you can do that with framing or with boards that don't have a lot of seasonal movement. But, if you think there is going to be a lot of that then you either have to accept cracking, etc, or make room for it. Something has to give. It can either be the whole board, or it can be the board splitting so part of it can move. For sure the nail isn't going anywhere.I suspect this is one of the reasons why the real old timey floors were pegged. They sure do move a lot over the year.Too bad the customer didn't ask before buying. They would have had a much tighter and to my eye a nicer looking floor.
*Tommy, The concern with running the flooring parallel with the joists is the rolling action of the flooring between the joists. You are basically running your flooring between joists with little support. In your case, the seven inch flooring will help keep the floor flatter, than narrower flooring.But I suspect you still will get movement.If you use a floor nailer, either manual or pneumatic with the squared flooring nails, you should have no worrys about cracking. The nails angled down as they are, allow for some lateral movement, but maintain the flooring tight to your subfloor. I think you mentioned using 3/4plywood rather than an OSB type sheathing so you will have good solid purchase for your flooring. One problem that arises with wider flooring is the inevitable shrinkage/expansion due to moisture. You can keep this to a minimum by having everything dry as possible, but you still will get some; the wider the flooring the greater the movement. Another common problem can be cupping. Face nailing will greatly eliminate that as will kerfing the bottom of the flooring, but I think with the oak it will not be a concern. Check the end grain. Also if it is prone to cupping, it is likely to be showing up now.Your floor will be fine if you take your time. Make sure everything is as dry as possible, acclimatize your flooring, and install as tight as possible. Sand and finish and soak up the owner's compliments. They always seem to come after the finish.walk good david
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I will be installing some owner supplied 7" wide oak plank flooring. Are there any inherent problems with these wider boards?
The job scenario is as follows:
Joists run parallel to hardwood in half of room then crosses over to run perpendicular in half of room. Over crawlspace with concrete slab and continuous vapor barrier.
Subfloor is 3/4 t&g ply. 15# felt then flooring will be blind nailed throught the tongue.
The planks were milled locally and are not end matched. Is end matching necessary? If not end matched during installation, should ends be fastend mechanically?
I am a little leery of this installation as my experience has been installing primarily boards under 5". I thought somebody mentioned here that wider boards are problematic.
Thanks,
Tom