Something new just landed on me today.
Good customer just had the caretakler call and let me know that the tile is in!
Well, that’s nice, nobody told me anything about a tile job, nobody asked if I would measure to see how much to order, and nobody asked me if the existing would be suitable to tile over.
So – I drive on down to take a look at things. The existing floor (120 sq ft) is 1×8 boards with 1/2″ ply wood and old commercial grade linoleum. The ply wood is sound but it does flew in a couple spots so it will have to come up so I can prep for the tile.
The real kicker here is that the tile is antique Tunisian ( that’s what it says on the invoice anyways) tile 5/8″ thick. I’ll be replacing the countertops with butcher block maple so there are ways I can make the range and DW fit in spite of elevation loss.
I have worked with antique Delft tiles before and with rough Mexican tiles too. I took a good look at these and they will definitely need som cleaning up. The surfaces are a decent glaze, and the base material is a hader clay than Mexican tile, but flaked back at edges.
The size is roughly 5/8″ thick and 7-1/2″ square. The owner would like to see a grout that is as narrow as possible but it will be at least 3/8″ because of varying tile sizes.
So I am open to any and all information and suggestiopns anybody has regarding prep and installation. There are a lot of tile guys around that I would trust with basic ceramic, but the one guy I would have enough confidence in for this job has retired, so I plan to enjoy this one myself. I’ve done several thousand feet of tile, so I’m, no novice to it, but the more I know before I start this, the better off i am.
Hey – Thanks, guys and gals.
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Something else Take a look a the photo and see the pattern. I am confused by one incongruity I find in my inspection of these. If you will look at the painted pattern of the flower in the corners of each, you will see two different flowers. I would interpret these as male (having three dots representing stamen) and female (with a fuller flower and no stamen or dots above).
I am unsure of the best way to use these two in a pattern together. Sometimes antique tile sold at art houses or auctions are accompanied by a photo showing how they were originally installed. It seems to be about 50/50 mix in the dozen I have looked at so far.
Anybody got ideas on this?
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Paul, take the lower left box and swap it with the lower right. Turn the pattern of each to what the other was............oh boy, this isn't easy describing.
The dotted tile will run on a diagonal with the oval going the same direction. The undotted tile will do the same except the oval will be opposite.
The same oval pattern you have up there will be the result, but the dots will run in a diagonal line across the floor.
or
Beats the #### outta me. A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
What Calvin said, or set them in groups of 4."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Thanks - that makes sense. I had thought of the groups of four, but the junky layout of this kitchen will leave something unbalanced.These will need close inspection and cleaning too, so I plan to do the layout simulated on the floor of the adjacent room. Then I can photograph it and email to owner and interior designer (whose miscarriage this thing is) for approval.
I have an appointment for a phone conf with them this afternoon to get their thoughts. I don't know yet if either of them knew there were twin patterns or if they got stuck...Gotta run to see the crews now.
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Piffin,That is a lot of weight to add to those joists.
John Bridge Tile Forum has a 'joist deflector' tool that will instanly give you a rating.
You may want to look into an isolation membrane.http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/deflecto.pl Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Thanks. I passed the deflatolator thingie!It is less than ten feet span and full sized opld joists, but to be able to see their condition, I had to stick my camera in a hole and wave it around, then look at the photos here at the PC.I had already chceked deflection by loading the boxes of tiles in the center of the room with a level checking things. There is barely a sixteenth inch in four feet with that kind of point load.Attaching some of todays photos from playing around there...I guess I'll cut and paste some from the Email I just wrote for them to digest. Turns out one of them is on a plant to somewhere."The male show flowers in two corners that have a pair of dots representing stamen over the flowers while the female have a fuller tulip shaped flower with no stamen represented. The ferns flanking the flower are of a slightly different shape whether male or female - this portion of the pattern meets the adjacent tile.
The female ones have a more vivid bright blue and a lighter coloured background
There are slightly more female ones than male, and the male ones tend to have more chipped edges etc.When you look at the photos, you can easily see how the female tiles make a brighter, more vivid pattern while the males when grouped all together make a duller dingy shadowed look. When mixed together, the patterns do not meet well,and the sizes are harder to use to maintain a smaller grout line.I believe it is clear that the obvious solution here is to lay the female tiles for the majority of the center of the floor where they will be most obvious, and fade to male in the perimeter and where shadows fall. "
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Be hard to come up with something as buttugly as that without a Decorator helping.
Bet the price is Decorator markup ugly too.
Joe H
you've got it!
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Paul, no offense but they looked better in the box.
You asked opinion this a.m. I gave you a pattern. Do any of those pics depict that suggestion? I couldn't find those two dots if you blew 'em up so big it would take you an hour to load.
thanks.
male / female-get the hell outta here.
Your flowing email sure sounded good.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
The last one mixed was your mix, Calvin. I'll name it the Calvinato style after you!;)The differences jump right out at me but details is one of my strong points - to the point of being a handicap sometimes. There comes a point in art appreciation where you have to learn to step back a little further and squint just right to appreciate the beauty.otherwise known as a two-bagger
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Gorgeous tile...but the walls need to be a different colour<g>.More days below zero = more dead Gypsy Moth Eggs. HUZZAH!!!
That is a different room from where the tiles go, but Gawd, you are scaring me. This ID is one who can't make up her mind on colour.
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LOL. She sounds...mmmm, interesting.I like old things too, but I restrain myself in public<g>.More days below zero = more dead Gypsy Moth Eggs. HUZZAH!!!
"male / female-get the hell outta here."Didn't younever study biology? Ask Joyce if the male flower doesn't have the stamen. it's that little part that stand up verticly to polinate the flower with seed goodies. She can show you ...The ID's secretary waas taking messages on the phone and she wanted me to explain and point out what I meant from the pictures too. She started giggling when the light came on in her head.The owner, Mrs G___, got it without explanation. She's a smart cookie.That's good. I'd hate to have to explain biology to her.
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I would like to go with 3/4 cdx glued and screwed over those floor boards.
Or some good 1/2cdx glued and screwed with ditra over.
Maybe 1/2 cbu thinsetted and screwed over the floorboards..............
You may want to inquire at a good jobber what thinset to use with those particular tiles. Perhaps something with a little more "give".
That lady has been dumpster diving!
Watch those gout lines. Make sure the patterns line up well with the proposed grout lines and make sure the client signs off on a tracing of four tiles in the proposed spacing.
Good luck.
Eric
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It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Signing off - that's why all this attention to detail and photo sampling! These gaumie things vary in size from 7-1/8" to 7-3/4". Most are close though to 7-1/2" They are mostly more true than most Mexican tiles I've used.Dumpster diving - No, but this ID loves old stuff. I once saw her rub her bod over an olde door exclaming, "Can't you just FEEL the olde vibes!?"California flakey blonde. The ID, not the client.
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Paul, so you don't go through life thinking I know not much.
Take a look at those pistols!
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But the ID rubbing her body.................
Man, I need to move to an island.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Sheesh. P I S T I L S. Not guns (shaking my head), how on earth did you get GUNS out of botanical reproductive organs?More days below zero = more dead Gypsy Moth Eggs. HUZZAH!!!
Hey now, don't roll your eyes. I first typed it with the ils and then changed it to o. What the heck do you expect.
just a dumb carpenter.
That likes macro shots, whatever they may be.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Well, i've heard there are those who balance a small pitil with a large pistol
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The male structure is called the 'Stayman' and consists of a 'Filament' and an 'Anther' - the Anther bears the pollen -
The female structure is called the 'Pistil' which consists of an 'Ovule' contained in the 'Ovary' with a 'Style' rising up to the 'Stigma' -
the Stigma recieves the pollen grains, which (under favorable conditions) germinate, grow a 'pollen tube' down the style, where male gametes unite with female gametes in the embryo sac in the act of fertilization -
oh, man - cool me off - momma's gone tonight -
in your picture the pistil appears to be at about 9 o'clock - with the stigmatic surface consisting of 4 little knobs -
nice pict -
"there's enough for everyone"
Thanks david.
I now feel complete.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Joyce must be home tonight...
"there's enough for everyone"
Yeah, it's terrible to sing the Song of Soloman all alone
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nothing personal, but I'd rather sing with salome'.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
The floor now has 1/2" ply underlay between the subfloor boards and the lino covering. It has just enough pop that I know I will be taking it up, then refasten the original boards, then add probably 1/2" cement panel backer board on thinset, then the install. I need to get my head to understanding Ditra too though. might be time...
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I've read or heard that the cbu is NOT to be screwed to the joists when fastening.
I don't remember why exactly. I think if you are geting good coverage with the thinset you don't need a lot of screws. I have also installed it with bucket mastic.
3/8 joint (+-) is good to go for the variation of size.
I'm not sold on the Ditra a hundred percent. I've used it on two bathrooms recently and I wasn't wowed.
If you do not get just the right amount of thinset under it, it may not adhere, or you may end up with humps from leaning and kneeling on it. Perhaps I have not aquired the knack for it.
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It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Ditra: I'm in the process of tiling 550 sq.ft of floor, and used Ditra as an underlayment due to movement concerns. I found that using a 1/4x1/4 notched trowel to spread the TS and then using a hand roller similar to what you might use to roll down a vinyl floor spreads the TS and beds the Ditra very well. (I pulled up the occasional piece, all had 100% coverage.)
Once rolled out, I had no problems with the stuff curling up whatsoever. (Andy had also complained about the curling problems a few years ago, IIRC.) I usually like to let the stuff 'relax' by spreading it out 24hrs prior to use, but there was not enough room to do so, so it went directly from the roll to the floor, all without problems.
I still prefer CBU or Hardibacker, given a choice, however.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.